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HD and BOOT PROBLEM and sometimes BLUE SCREEN


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#1 OscarG

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 07:13 AM

For the last couple of months or so, on boot up, PC gets stuck on 'Detecting IDE drives' and will not go any further. It will also sometimes get stuck on 'Detecting array'.

I have been Ctrl-Alt-Deleting when this happens - each time it takes several attempts but will eventually boot up ok into Windows.

Have also more recently been getting the blue screen with 'A problem has been detected and windows has been shut down to prevent further damage to your computer etc' and mentions hardware issues.

These problems have occurred sometime between adding an external drive, a second internal hard drive and replacing the power supply - all these being done over a couple of months or so.

Another issue which may be related, is the DVD drive (D:) is not being recognised.

The system is:-

Evesham Axis 2800 Personal Computer
Windows XP
Main Hard Drive (C:)
DVD Drive (D:) (not recognised)
CD Drive (E:)


to which has recently been added:-

Second Internal Hard Drive :- Western Digital Caviar 500Gb (M:)
1Gb RAM
Power Supply :- Winpower SL-8500BTX 500W
External Hard Drive :- Western Digital Elements 1Tb
(this is not always turning on - I think it is faulty and intend returning it)

Under Computer Management, only the C:, M:, E: drives are showing (and the partitioned external drive E: and F: when it's working)

I would be extremely grateful for any advice and help anyone can offer, as I am not sure how/where to proceed next.

Many thanks

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#2 computerxpds

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 07:21 AM

is it all sata or a mix of sata and ide/ATA drives? also have you tried to start with the external unplugged and with the second internal unplugged?
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#3 hamluis

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 08:55 AM

Have you run diagnostics on the drives in question?

If the DVD drive is not recognized...that might indicate that it's not functioning.

I would check the BIOS to see if it's reflected properly there.

Louis

Edited by hamluis, 19 April 2010 - 08:56 AM.


#4 OscarG

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:10 AM

Hi
Thanks for your replies.

At the risk of appearing somewhat ignorant could I ask:-

What's the best way of checking whether they're sata and/or ide/ata drives?

Which diagnostics tool do you recommend or is there one within windows?

I have unplugged the external drive - with the internal drive, do I just unplug the power cable before booting up?

Many thanks

#5 hamluis

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 01:22 PM

First thing I would check is the drive connections...make sure cables to drive from both power supply and motherboard are tight, not loose.

For external drives...just cut the power or disconnect from USB port.

The error message specifies an "IDE" drive as a problem...I can't tell if your external is an PATA or a SATA drive...but it seems that Windows will often balk if a USB device is detected during boot (other than keyboard/mouse) because it's in an "on" state. The cure for that is to turn the drive off or don't connect the external drive until the system boots properly.

I see that your drive doesn't seem to have an On/Off control, if I'm reading the WD description correctly. "Turns on and off with your computer. Enters idle mode when not in use." Which says to me that Windows detects it and cannot understand why it's attached because the USB drivers haven't been loaded yet.

I would start with booting minus the external drive being attached and in an ON state.

As suggested previously...take it one step at a time. Dsconnect your second hard drive also, leaving only the optical drive and the drive containing Windows properly connected.

Then...try to boot system normally. If error message, write it down and post.

<<What's the best way of checking whether they're sata and/or ide/ata drives?>>

The best way, IMO, is to just take a look at them...in the case of an external drive, look at the documentation for same.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=760

Do those things and we'll know if anything else is necessary.

Louis

<<with the internal drive, do I just unplug the power cable before booting up?>>

Unplugging just the PSU cable alone is not what I would do. It's easy enough to unplug both cables to a hard drive connected to the motherboard.

Edited by hamluis, 20 April 2010 - 01:26 PM.


#6 OscarG

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 02:19 PM

Hi
Many thanks for your advice and time.

Apologies for taking a while to get back to you - I'm not always able to access the computer when I want to!

I disconnected both the external and second internal hard drives.

I then did as you first suggested and checked the drive connections....... and I'm embarrassed to say that one of the connections to the DVD drive was not fully located!! I blame this on my partner, who changed over the power supply!

It boots up fine now - however.....

I still get the blue screen (A problem has been detected and windows has been shut down etc.........) everytime I boot up - it doesn't appear straightaway. If I work at the PC for sometime, then go away, it is almost always there when I return. If I boot up and don't use the PC and come back, say 15 mins later, it will usually be there. So I was thinking a period of inactivity had an effect. Having said that, I have just been at the PC for about an hour and it's appeared while I'm still working.

Do you have any thoughts or advice on this?

The screen does give varying reports eg A process or thread critical to system operation has unexpectedly exited etc......... or
kernel_stack_inpage_error

Would the batch of numbers at the bottom be of any help to you?

Thanks again your help

Edited by OscarG, 25 April 2010 - 02:21 PM.


#7 hamluis

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 08:54 AM

Yes, the entire content of the error message is always a good starting point :thumbsup:.

Louis

#8 OscarG

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:02 AM

The blue screen that comes up varies slightly. Here are the last 3:-

A problem has been detected and windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.

A process or thread crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or terminated.

If this is the first time you've seen this Stop Error screen restart your computer. If this screen appears again, follow these steps.

Check to make sure any new hardware or software is properly installed. If this is a new installation, ask your hardware or software manufacturer for any windows updates you might need.

If problems continue, disable or remove any newly installed hardware or software. Disable BIOS memory options such as caching or shadowing. If you need to use Safe Mode to remove or disable components, restart your computer, press F8 to select Advanced Startup Options and then select Safe Mode.

Technical Information

*** STOP: 0X000000F4 (0X00000003, 0X88704780, 0X887048F4, 0X805D120A)

Beginning dump of physical memory



The next Blue Screen was the same as above except:

after 'A problem has been detected......' was 'KERNEL_STACK_INPAGE_ERROR'

and the technical info was ' *** STOP: 0X000000077 (0XC0000185, 0XC0000185, 0X00000000, 0X022D6000)'


The most recent Blue Screen was exactly the same as the one above except that the very last group of numbers was '0X06464000'


Thanks

#9 hamluis

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:44 AM

Thanks :thumbsup:. Generic info on your errors reported follows.

0x00000077: KERNEL_STACK_INPAGE_ERROR
A page of kernel data requested from the pagefile could not be found or read into memory. This message also can indicate disk hardware failure, disk data corruption, or possible virus infection.

0x000000F4: CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
One of the many processes or threads crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or been terminated. As a result, the system can no longer function. Specific causes are many, and often best resolved by a careful history of the problem and the circumstances of the error message.

My first suspect tends to be the hard drive...so I would suggest running the appropriate HD manufacturer's diagnostic (long test, not short) on your drive.

I would further suggest that you move any valued data files from the drive...before beginning any testing of the hard drive.

Bootable Hard Drive Diagnostics - Vox - http://usasma.vox.com/library/post/bootabl...iagnostics.html

Hard Drive Installation and Diagnostic Tools - http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/28744/hard-drive-installation-and-diagnostic-tools/

Louis

#10 OscarG

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 07:48 AM

Thanks again Louis for your advice.

I have downloaded SEATOOLS (diagnostic scan for my MAXTOR) drive.

But I'm having trouble doing any full scans, as the BLUE SCREEN comes up before any are finished.

Over the last 2-3 weeks (to make sure the problems are not being caused by Viruses or Malware) I have been trying to do a MALWAREBYTES full scan, without any success. I have managed a Quick Scan of it which has thrown up 2 instances of Trojan.chifrax. On googling it some think it might be genuine and some (on Malwarebytes forum) think it may be a False Positive. So I haven't done anything about this as yet.

I have also just looked at my NORTON Internet Sec 2010 Scan History - although scheduled to run daily, the last time a Full Scan ran was 4th April. Idle Time Quick Scans have been running daily. I tried a manual Full Scan yesterday as soon as I booted up the PC, but the BLUE SCREEN appeared shortly after starting.

The time the BLUE SCREEN appears seems to vary a lot - sometimes I can work an hour or more before it appears, other times it's much shorter. Whether it's coincidence or not, the BLUE SCREEN appearing will coincide with a full scan of any type. Does this make Virus presence a possibility?

Another recent symptom is, that on booting up, as soon as the desktop appears, the computer seems to stagnate with the drive making a short noise every 2 seconds - this lasts 10 or more minutes, during which time I cannot click on anything on the desktop (there is no response) and when hovering the cursor over anything, there is no reaction. It has never done this before the recent problems. It then seems to settle down.

Do you have any further suggestions?

Many thanks

#11 hamluis

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:39 AM

The hard drive diagnostic is the most important step which needs to be conducted, IMO.

The fact that you cannot do a diagnostic scan...without a BSOD...pretty much indicts hardware as the issue. The diagnostic program has nothing to do with running through Windows, unless you are running SeaTools for Windows.

If you are using SeaTools for Windows, try using the SeaTools for DOS tool instead.

Louis

#12 OscarG

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 01:14 PM

Hi Louis

I have just been able to scan with SeaTools for DOS - the long test (graphical version) (had one or two problems along the way) and it has failed as you had suggested.

Could I run a couple of questions past you, as this is all new to me and a little difficult to understand!

The end of the scan came up with the log (2 columns of approx 50 numbers (bad sectors?)) and this screen, which said:-

Long Test Errors
Unfortunately, your Seagate (Maxtor) drive has failed an important diagnostic test, possibly caused by problem sectors which are difficult to read. Now is a good time to make sure you have a current backup of your important data.
Seagate recommends that you consider repairing the problem sectors. SeaTools for DOS may be able to save you from the inconvenience and down time of exchanging the drive. For more information on this subject see our help topic 'Bad Sector Found'


I couldn't see any option to do any repairing - does this option only come up in specific circumstances? Or have I just not found it?

Thanks again for your patience - I know this is taking some time.

Lyn

#13 Sneakycyber

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 02:39 PM

If the Seatools test failed then you should replace the drive. What the test does is read and write to different sectors all over the drive and keeps a tally on how many bad ones it finds. If it finds too many or is unable to write/read it will deem the drive failed. You should look for a replacement, and get any valuable files off ASAP.
Chad Mockensturm 
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Certified CompTia Network +, A +

#14 OscarG

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:33 AM

Ok - will do. Thankyou very much for all your help over the last couple months or however long it's been! It's been much appreciated.

Lyn




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