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Thinking about building my first PC.


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#1 raf96

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 04:24 PM

Sooo, I was thinking about building my first PC.

I'm not 100% positive if components I have chosen are compatible.
The price is an issue so I know it's not the best setup, but hopefully you can tell me what you think about it.
What am I gonna use it for?... I guess to play some FPS games from time to timem and some home photo/video editing.
I didn't include the hard drive cauz' i have a sata2.
Now, in regards to case I'm not shure if I need a new one or my old one could work. (actually have two old ones)

Anyways... here are the stuff I picked.
(some descriptions are in polish, but it's quite obvious what they refer to)



Motherboard Gigabyte GA-790XT-USB3 Socket AM3
[GA-790XT-USB3]





Kod Producenta GA-790XT-USB3
Typ gniazda procesora Socket - AM3
Obsługiwane procesory AMD Phenom™ II processor / AMD Athlon™ II
Producent Chipsetu AMD
Model Chipsetu AMD 790X + AMD SB750
Magistrala 5200 MT/s MHz
Ilość gniazd pamięci DDR III 4 szt.
Obsługiwane typy pamięci DDR3 1866(OC)(Note 2)/1333/1066 MHz
Dwukanałowa obsługa pamięci Tak
Maks. pojemność pamięci 16 GB
Gniazdo PCI-Express x16 2 szt.
Gniazdo PCI-Express x1 2 szt.
Gniazdo AGR / AGI No
Gniazdo PCI 3 szt.
Obsługa SLI No
Obsługa CrossFire Yes
Zintegrowana karta graficzna NONE
Zintegrowana karta dźwiękowa Realtek ALC889 codec - High Definition Audio
Zintegrowana karta sieciowa 1 x Realtek 8111D chip (10/100/1000 Mbit)
Złącza IDE ATA 1 szt.
Złącza Serial ATA 2 6 szt.
Złącza eSATA 2 szt.
Kontroler RAID ATA Nie/No
Kontroler RAID SATA Tak/Yes
Interfejs FDD 1 szt.
Gniazdo PS/2 2 szt.
Gniazdo sieciowe RJ45 1 szt.
Złącza USB zewnętrzne 8 szt.
Złącza FireWire zewnętrzne 2 szt.
Złącza FireWire wewnetrzne 1 szt.
Gniazda audio analogowe 6 szt.
Gniazda audio cyfrowe 2 szt.
Gniazda zasilania 1 x 24-pin ATX, 1 x 8-pin ATX 12V, 1 x CPU, 2 x system, 1 x power
internal conn 1 x front panel, 1 x front panel audio, 1 x CD In, 1 x S/PDIF In, 1 x S/PDIF Out, 1 x IEEE 1394a, 1 x COM, 1 x clearing CMOS
Standard ATX
Wymiary (wys x szer) 30.5cm x 24.4cm mm
Funkcje dodatkowe Obsługa ATI CrossFireX™






Procesor AMD Athlon II X4 630 BOX (AM3) (95W/45NM)
[ADX630WFGIBOX]






 Produkt na zamówienie - czas dotarcia do naszego magazynu: 1 dzień roboczego od złożenia zamówienia!

Kod Producenta
ADX630WFGIBOX
Producent
AMD
Rodzina procesorów
AMD Athlon
Typ gniazda
Socket - AM3
Liczba rdzeni w strukturze procesora
4
Proces technologiczny
45 nm
Częstotliwość taktowania procesora
2,8 GHz
Częstotliwość taktowania magistrali
4000 MHz
QPI Magistrala Quickpath
Nie dotyczy
Pojemność pamięci cache L1
4 x 128 kB
Pojemność pamięci cache L2
4 x 512 kB
Wbudowany kontroler pamięci
Tak
Hyper-Treading
nie dotyczy
Hyper-Transport
Tak
Obsługa instrukcji 32-bit
Tak
Obsługa instrukcji 64-bit
Tak
Napięcie zasilania rdzenia
1,425 V
Pobór mocy
95 W
Dołączony wentylator
Tak





Sapphire Radeon HD4670 1GB DDR3/128b D/H PCI-E L
[11138-34-20R]

Cena: 264,37zł 

  



 złącze PCI-E 16x
Producent chipsetu ATI Technologies
Typ chipsetu Radeon HD4670
Rodzaj pamięc DDR3
Szyna pamięci 128-bitowa
Wielkość pamięc 1024 MB
Taktowanie Core 750 MHz
Taktowanie Memory 800 MHz
Taktowanie RAMDAC 400 MHz
Złącza zewnętrzne
15 pin VGA
1 x DVI-I
1 x HDMI
Chłodzenie
aktywne
Obsługiwane standardy
DirectX 10.1
Pozostałe parametry
Shader Model 4.1
ATI CrossFireX
ATI Avivo HD
ATI PowerPlay
Lite retail




Ram DDR3 OCZ 4GB PC1866 2x2GB CL10 GE LV
[OCZ3G1866LV4GK]

Cena: 443,90zł 



Producent
OCZ
Rodzaj pamięci
DDR3
Pojemność pamięci
4 GB
Ilość modułów w zestawie
2 X 2 GB
Częstotliwość szyny pamięci
1866MHZ
Timingi
10-10-10-27
Typ pamięci
GOLD EDITION
Radiator
TAK
ECCR
NIE
ECC
NIE
Wielkogabarytowy
NIE




Power supply Bequiet PurePower L7 530W
[BN106]

266,0 

  
Kod Producenta
BN106
Standard
ATX 2.3
Maks. moc
530 W
Wtyczka zasilania (ilość pinów)
24 szt.
Wtyczka zasilania (rodzaj)
Rozłączalna
Wtyczka zasilania (opis)
20 + 4-pin
Ilość wtyczek MOLEX
4 szt.
Ilość wtyczek S-ATA
5 szt.
Ilość wtyczek Floppy
1 szt.
Ilość wtyczek ATX 12V
2 szt.
Wtyczki ATX 12V (opis)
2 x 4-pin (8-Pin 12V)
Ilość wtyczek PCI-E
2 szt.
Typ PFC
Aktywne
Posiadane zabezpieczenia
OCP / OVP / UVP / SCP / OPP / OTP
Ilość wentylatorów
1 szt.
Średnice wentylatorów
120 mm
Maks. głośność
20 dB
Wysokość

Szerokość
150 mm
Głębokość
140 mm
Informacje dodatkowe
2 x wtyczka PCI-Express: 6+2-pin. Zasilacz zgodny z normą "80 PLUS" o sprawności sięgającej 87%.

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#2 DJBPace07

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 02:01 AM

Well, you don't need to add the full descriptions, only the bolded text. That is a great motherboard you've got there, keep it. For the CPU, I suggest getting one of the Phenom II X2's as they have a more powerful architecture than the Athlon II's. If you have a Phenom II and an Athlon II with the same clock speed and number of cores, the Phenom II would still win. I suggest the Phenom II X2 545, 550, or 555. Do not get a Radeon 4-series graphics card, they may be less expensive, but the Radeon 5-series is better in that they draw less power, are smaller, allow for DirectX 11, and produce less heat. I suggest the Radeon HD 5670 or greater. I've also never heard of that power supply before, I only suggest OCZ, Corsair, SeaSonic, Thermaltake, Silverstone, and PC Power. You are forgetting the operating system and optical drive. I would provide links and suggest more specific hardware, but Newegg nor TigerDirect ships to Poland.

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#3 raf96

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 04:50 AM

Thank you for replying.
In regards to the CPU, that is where it gets merky. I tried to get more idea about it but the more I read, the dumber and more confused I get.
Sooo... this processor with quad core design running at 2.8GHz is slower then other processor with dual core running at 3.2GHz?
I just want to add that this quad core amd athlon 2.8 will cost me about 120 bucks, where quad core phenom running 2,8GHz is about $170, that's 42% increase in price so is it really worth it? (1$=2.8 zl so 42% is quite a lot)
Or how about this processor...(i'm posting specs anyway just in case)... it's even cheaper ($106) then athlon X4
HDX550WFGMBOX
Model Phenom II X2 550

Typ gniazda AM3
Rdzeń Callisto
Liczba rdzeni 2
Częstotliwość taktowania 3.1 GHz
Czestotliwość FSB HT 2000 MHz
Cache L1 L1 - 2 x 128KB (64KB + 64KB)
Cache L2 L2 - 2 x 512 kB
Cache L3 L3 - 6 MB
Technologia wykonania 45 nm
Instrukcje multimedialne MMX(+)
3DNow!(+)
SSE
SSE2
SSE3
SSE4a
x86-64
AMD Virtualization
Informacje dodatkowe Pobór mocy: 80 W
Wersja BOX


And the housing itself are the old ones compatible with new motherboards? All i need to do is change the position of plastic grommets?
Oh and the graphic card... radeon 5 series is twice as much as the 4 series. There is one with a decent price but it has only 512mb ram (HIS Radeon HD5670 512MB DDR5/128b D/H PCI-E IceQ). Do you think it's enough?

Edited by raf96, 26 March 2010 - 11:31 AM.


#4 DJBPace07

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 01:16 AM

In regards to the CPU thing: With multicore CPU's, like those that have been mentioned so far, the clock speed refers to the speed of each individual core. Using the Phenom II X2 550 as an example, both cores run at 3.1GHz. Things become a little more complicated with triple and quad core CPUs. The same clock speed rule applies, but you must also consider whether or not your application can take advantage of three or four cores. Not all programs can use more than two cores, those that do are often editing tools or very new games. If you see yourself keeping this PC for five years or more, a quad core should be considered. However, if you are going to keep this PC for less than five years, a dual core will work well. Whichever CPU you finally choose, I suggest getting one that has a clock speed of 2.8GHz. or greater for best performance.

GPU: From what I've seen, the 5-series is about 25% to 50% more expensive than a similar 4-series in the U.S. But, local pricing does fluctuate between countries. The 5670 is a great card, if you have the cash, the 5770 offers a substantial improvement over it. As for the graphics RAM, 512MB is decent if you are using a monitor that is 24-inches or smaller in size. Some games do utilize as much graphics card memory as possible, so 512MB may not be enough if you want to run those games at the highest quality settings. Grand Theft Auto IV is one such game and I'm sure there are others.

Housing/Case/Chassis: There are three standard cases most people use when building a PC, micro-ATX, Mid-ATX, and Full-ATX. The motherboard you can use depends on the case. Micro-ATX cases will only take Micro-ATX motherboards. Mid-ATX cases can, usually, take Micro-ATX and standard ATX motherboards, such as the one you have chosen. The Full-ATX case can often take micro-ATX, ATX, and Extended-ATX motherboards.

Edited by DJBPace07, 27 March 2010 - 01:28 AM.

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#5 raf96

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:45 PM

Well... you are very helpful. My final design is beginning to take it's shape. I have to say... I have so much appreciation for guys like you that are helping others, that there is no words to describe it. Now days "the net" is the only place that you can still find good guys, that are willing to share their knowledge...but i'm beginning to sound like I'm "brown-nosng" (hmmm... "noseing",or "nosing":thumbsup: yup I have an ADD for sure :huh:)... so, let's get back to what I have so far... I'll try to describe my decisions in such a way that if someone ventures onto this post, they can find it helpful. I'll put a price tag on the items so you can have a better idea about performance/value ratio (keep in mind i'm using a $1=2.9Zl calculations((it went up :huh:) so it may change. But I'll post it in dollars so you have some understanding.
Guys keep in mind I think I picked the best value to price ratio... not the best stuff available.

Motherboard...price $125

I have picked...
Gigabyte GA-790XT-USB3 Socket AM3
I picked it based on the these factors...
Processor socket is an AM3 which seems to fit all of newer AMD processor technology

Two 16x PCI-e graphic ports (in case if I want to add a second card, and this board supports something called "crossfire" which is interconnecting two video cards"

Ram support- most of the boards I have searched for, have a support for the 1333MHz transfer rate, this one has a support for 1866MHz transfer rate (ref: wikipedia) NOTE: pick your RAM acordingly

And approval of the guy on this site that seems to know what the f#$k he is talking about B)

Now I'd like to mention... I always preferred Intel and Nvidia Vs AMD and ATI, but I have realized that the performance improvement and the price increase isn't worth it.


Processor

Here's a part where I am still not positive about. I have picked...
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 630 BOX (AM3) (95W/45NM)... only a $115 and it's a quad core
I have decided to stay with my original choice...Now... I have a feeling that you (DJBPace) have not noticed that it is a quad-core. And here is my dilemma... did you or did you not?... Is it worth to pay 42% more for the same.. GHz performance between athlon and phenom? Is it 42% faster? And one more thing, you have mentioned that even though most aplication can't take the full advantage of the quad core processor it is something to consider if you are planning on keeping your PC for a longer period of time. ( my next PC 10yrs... at least :))
So... hey buddy... can you clarify it even more?for me please ( I'm sorry, i feel like a pain in...)

RAM DDR3 OCZ 4GB PC1866 2x2GB CL10 GE LV...$171
it was sort of an easy choice, because prices are not that much different but the performance is quite important... I remeber what I have read long time ago, that said "if you want to speed up your pc you don't nrrd a faster processor , but more RAM. .. I've looked at the supported transfer rates. 1333 to 1866 says it all.

Graphics card
Yeah... that;s a (w/b)itch... I took an advice of the DJBPace and I've gone with a Radeon 5770... now here is the thing... I decided on...

Asus Radeon HD5770 1GB DDR5/128b D/H PCI-E CuCore... $206 (note "CuCore"-price and performance diference). Don't ask me what it means... B)

But there is at least 6 5770's on the market and price difference is within $20.
So I have gone with this one because I;ve noticed that even the highest level cards support L3 cache.... now ... I can't explain to ya'll what exactly it is, but since the newest cards support it, and older ones don't it can't be wrong... so I have decided to spend the most on the the GPcard

And lastly... Power Unit I've decided to go with my gut feeling... and a general conviction, that in some areas the company tha isn't that well known... tries harder. They don't spend much money on advertising so they can include more features... I mean... electricity isn't spmething new, they can't go worse then anyone else. New technology... yes it takes certain amount of proofing, but,... so I've gone with my original idea...

Bequiet PurePower L7 530W... $81

bleepload of connectors that I can use 530w max power which i think is more than enough.


So... hey dude could you share your thoughts? What do you think about this system? How would you rate it in 0/10?
Either way, once again thanks for your input.

Just to sort of summarize... a lot of my choices came with my convictions, that the "Moore's Law"" is simply not sustainable. Even though it pushed companies to exhaust their capabilities to the limits, I think we are at... almost... I say again almost... at the end of the electonical capabilities, so unless we can go to the atom scale, everything else wil be cheatting, tweaking and just overselling a product.

I welcome discussion if anyone cares.

Edited by raf96, 28 March 2010 - 02:27 PM.


#6 DJBPace07

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 01:10 AM

I will further expand on a few things.

Motherboard: With AMD's current chipsets, take special note of which they are using, especially if you are going to use multiple graphics cards. AMD's 790X chipset, which the Gigabyte motherboard uses, allows for multiple graphics cards, however, if both PCI-Express X16 slots are filled, one will operate at a full X16 speed while the other will operate at 8X. The 790X is a very good mid-range chipset. The 770 chipset is their budget option, perfect for people who don't foresee themselves using more than one graphics card. The 790FX chipset is the best they have with two, three, or four PCI-Express X16 slots. If two are populated on a 790FX board, both will operate at X16 speeds. If three are populated they will operate at either X16, X16, X4 or X16, X8, X8 depending on the motherboard. In a four-way Crossfire setup, they will typically operate at 8X, 8X, 8X, 8X. Because the 790FX is designed for power-users, those motherboards are priced as such. Don't worry too much about RAM speeds since a motherboard will slow them down if they are too fast.

CPU: I used the Athlon CPU's a while back when they were only dual core, the quad core Athlon's are a fairly recent development. It's taking me a while to erase the "Athlon's are dual core" mindset. I typically ignore the Athlon II line of CPU's since I'm a gamer and go straight for the Phenom II's. Since you say you're going to keep this PC for a number of years, I advise a Phenom II X4 925, 945, 955, and 965. Note that the 955 and 965 are Black Edition CPU's which have their multipliers unlocked making them very easy to overclock. The 925 is most similar to the Athlon you have chosen. Since the Phenom II line is more powerful and designed for performance, they will cost more than the Athlon II's. Both series of CPU's will work well, but if you are going to be gaming, you will want a Phenom II, not an Athlon II.

RAM: Most AM3 motherboards allow for DDR3-1333 with higher speeds designed for overclocking. Most motherboards, even though they can use faster RAM, will not default to the higher speed since they are set as overclocked RAM. This means you have to go into the BIOS and tell it to use a higher speed. Also, as a personal observation, people tend to have more problems with faster RAM whose voltage is above 1.5V. Unless you need to squeeze every last miniscule bit of performance out this PC, you will do fine at 1333 speeds and it won't, shouldn't, cost as much.

GPU: Talk about a markup. I found that same card online for $150, though the retailer only ships to the U.S. CuCore is some sort of cooler Asus uses. This cooler uses more copper to transfer heat away from the core hence the Cu (Refer to the the Periodic Table to get this reference) in CuCore. Honestly, I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make if you are not overclocking the card. I don't think the Radeon 5770 has seen a revision from ATI/AMD, so the cards should all be almost identical. The major differences between card manufacturers are price, warranty, and bundle. A few, like Asus, do change a few things every now and then, but most stick with the reference design and may alter the cooler. Quality does tend to vary slightly with Asus, Gigabyte, Diamond, XFX, and Sapphire making the decent cards. Remember, all cards, and computer equipment in general, are all mass produced, resulting in fluctuations in quality.

PSU: I've never heard of that manufacturer, so you're on your own with that.

Moore's Law is sustainable, it just depends on how it continues and who can afford it. I think we will see more revisions to existing technologies before we reach a new revolution in how electronics are designed and manufactured. Intel is working on glass technologies, so who knows. Remember, you need a 64-bit OS for this PC. If you get a Phenom II X4 965, I would give the PC about an 8, lowering two points for the graphics card and hard drive, though, given the costs to go much higher may break your budget. Going with the Phenom II X4 925 will get you a 7 for the same reasons -1 for a non-Black Edition CPU. Black Edition CPU's are unlocked so you can overclock them later on if you need just a bit more power. Preferably, outside the warranty period. You're not going to be penalized for a 790X motherboard as you aren't buying a 5770 right now.

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#7 tg1911

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 11:05 PM

PSU: I've never heard of that manufacturer, so you're on your own with that.

From what I've been reading, it's a German manufacturer, catering to the European market.
Description, Tech Data, etc. on the Bequiet PurePower L7 530W.
It's SLI/XFire, and 80+ certified.
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P, CPU: Phenom II X4 955 Deneb BE, HS/F: CoolerMaster V8, RAM: 2 x 1G Kingston HyperX DDR2 800, VGA: ECS GeForce Black GTX 560, PSU: Antec TruePower Modular 750W, Soundcard: Asus Xonar D1, Case: CoolerMaster COSMOS 1000, Storage: Internal - 2 x Seagate 250GB SATA, 2 x WD 1TB SATA; External - Seagate 500GB USB, WD 640GB eSATA, 3 x WD 1TB eSATA

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#8 raf96

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:31 AM

yup. thats what I've been told as well. I just asked today a guy at store, and he said it a decent quality Power Unit, and you know, it's german and they are known for their precision.

I still can't make up my mind, now I'm thinking about waiting a bit and get an Nvidia card (probably GTX 260) it's more expensive, but when it comes to games, supposedly ATI is known for running into certain issues. I'll simply stick with a better card and the hell with SLI/crossfire. This way I could drop down to a 770 chipset and save few bucks this way.
Processor... I have found on AMAZON a blk ed. 3.2GHz phenom X4 for $164 and they ship that to Poland. They have a special price now on it, dropped down from $299 (probably because I5 intel came out).

It is so hard to make my final decision... Gotta think/read a lot more, before I can decide.

#9 DJBPace07

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:38 PM

I've always been fascinated with brand loyalty when it comes to computer hardware. Sometimes, you get fanboys posturing that their chosen brand is better, which can be quite entertaining. That is, unless you somehow get dragged into the discussion. Just keep this mind when you do research on tech. Anyway, back to your build. Both Nvidia and ATI cards do the exact same thing very well. As a buyer, you have to choose between price and features. In this case, the GTX 260 costs more and operates at roughly the same speed as the 5770, but doesn't have DirectX 11 and uses more power. The Radeon 5770 is newer, less expensive, and has DirectX 11. I have two GeForce 9800 GTX cards running in SLI, they work pretty well. Though, I can say that almost every crash or BSOD I have had is related to the Nvidia drivers. For the current generation of cards, ATI has the best mix of value and power. I say stay with the ATI card, you get more for your money. As for your Crossfire/SLI situation, there are dual-GPU graphics cards on the market that have the same performance of a Crossfire/SLI setup. Granted, those cards are insanely expensive. There are some AMD 770 chipset motherboards that support Crossfire, though, the speed at which they will operate with a second card is drastically lower. I should also point out that there are two kinds of Phenom's, one is the Phenom II and the other is Phenom. The Phenom, without the II, is the old somewhat suck-y version. That original Phenom cannot be used in any of the current AM3 motherboards. The Phenom II's have a different architecture and are far better than the originals.

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#10 raf96

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 07:03 AM

the one I've mentioned is a phenom II. Here's a link and an Amazon Link now it's even cheaper $159 Quite amazing price. or am I wrong?
Thanks to your last post, you have put me at ease a bit... so I'm sticking to 5770. As of last this is my pick http://www.ram.net.pl/product_info.php?products_id=61972
And I totally agree... brand loyalty is a strange phenomenon. I can't even understand myself why I like Nvidia. I have had so many problems with their drivers and yet I praise them... I guess... hell of a marketing.

Edited by raf96, 31 March 2010 - 07:12 AM.


#11 DJBPace07

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:53 PM

That's a good price for the Phenom II X4 955, though make sure Amazon can ship it to you since they will only ship the CPU to select countries. That's a good choice choice for a graphics card, Sapphire makes good GPU's.

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#12 raf96

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 01:04 PM

So I'm just comming back to this post to sort of... finalize it. I've gotten that what I've said I will and I'm quite pleased so far with performance.
Two minuses I should mention.
First some of my older equipment doesn't have updasted drivers for win7 x64, and they don't plan on making it... namely... one is my "no name" web cam, and the second one is my favorite mouse "logitech mx700 cordless". (what a dick move on the logitechs part :thumbsup: ) they outright said, that they won't make updates for it.

Secondly... GPU card is great I can run any game on maxed out settings and it runs smoothly, but ATI seems to have a problem with their drivers. Games simply freeze (not only with 5770 but supposedly higher models as well), but after several restarts card seems to be warming up and there is no more issues. I have found a work around using built in OC software. which I might as well pass it along... (it doesn't eliminate the issue, but it does help a bit)

Here is the workaround: Open CCC and switch to ATI Overdrive Unlock and enable Overdrive Go to Options/Profiles/Profile Manager and create a new profile called, let's say, STABLE. Save the new profile. But DO NOT ACTIVATE the profile. Now go to C:\Users\{YourUserName}\AppData\Local\ATI\ACE\Profiles folder ( I assume C: is your system drive ) Note: You should have " show hidden files " turned on to see the folder. Open the .xml file named STABLE with notepad. Change the values of the idle Core clock and Memory clock speeds below Feature name="CoreClockTarget_0" Property name="Want_0" value="40000" note: previous value should be "15700" Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0" Property name="Want_0" value="90000" note: previous value should be "30000" Save the file and close it. Go back to CCC and activate the profile. This will make the card idle at 400 MHz core clock and 900 MHz memory clock. The speed change is immediate. You can see the speeds onder CCC Overdrive section. Please note this change increases graphic card temperature by 6 to 7 degrees C at idle.



Soooo... bottom line is... thanks guys for your help, your advise have been most appreciated, and if you happen to find some resolution for mentioned above issues, please do tell.
Take care.

#13 DJBPace07

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 11:05 PM

The webcam is obvious, they typically require special drivers and aren't updated that frequently. Unless you have a special mouse, then it should be plug and play, not requiring any additional software. As for the driver problem, you just have to wait on ATI. It seems as though no graphics card manufacturer can make decent drivers...

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#14 raf96

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 06:51 AM

Oh no, don't get me wrong. Mouse does work on microsoft drivers, but I can't assign additional buttons I've found some software that helped me assign at least two of them (ANTSOFT key remapper)great program by the way).
Some things with windows like with free floating toolbar that has been removed from win7 I used Rocket Dock. Not the same thing but it helps.
In general I can't really be really really pissed at GPU drivers creators, because it is so complicated that no human being can predict everything, but they do work on it... What I am pissed at is when the company tells you they don't want to work on the product they sold (logitech). You know what I say? F@#K'em!!! I'll never buy another product from them. They have obviously made to good of the product with MX700 that it doesn't break (mine has 10 years or so), so now they want you to buy some other sh@t that will break right after warranty expires.

#15 DJBPace07

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:32 AM

Why do you need RocketDock when the Windows 7 SuperBar renders it pointless? I don't mind Logitech, especially their standard mice, but wireless on the other hand. ATI just released new drivers today, I think, so you may want to go by their site and get 'em. Your attitude towards Logitech is similar to mine with Creative. When Vista came out, I had an X-Fi sound card and the 64-bit version of Windows. For months, every time I turned on the PC, I would get a constant blast of static out of speakers because Creative didn't bother to write decent drivers and blamed the problems on customers, then, they had the nerve to charge users for certain features after they bought the card. I was so annoyed with Creative that I removed the card from my PC and bought an Asus Xonar sound card and swore I would never buy a Creative product for a long, long time.

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