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Posted 11 September 2005 - 09:47 PM
"In a world where you can be anything, be yourself." ~ unknown
"Fall in love with someone who deserves your heart. Not someone who plays with it. – Will Smith
Posted 11 September 2005 - 10:12 PM
Posted 23 November 2005 - 04:33 PM
Whether you believe in the conspiracy or think the terrorists did it. It should still be remembered. People still lost their lives
A few days ago, i actually had someone ask me what was so special about sunday..... i almost punched him in the face......
Edited by yano, 23 November 2005 - 04:34 PM.
Posted 04 January 2006 - 07:19 PM
Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:30 PM
Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:47 PM
Edited by phawgg, 09 January 2006 - 09:59 PM.
Posted 09 January 2006 - 10:18 PM
Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:07 AM
This thread is a tribute and remembrance of those innocents who lost their lives. To say that we are terrorists--and by we i suppose you mean Americans, and possibly others participating in western culture since other members of the human race that were attacked were of other nationalities--while we are in the midst of thinking of those innocents, is to imply that the victims of the attack were actually guilty and deserved what they got.
In many people's eyes, WE are the terrorists. Terrorists by proxy.
The thing about people
is they change
when they walk away.--Mipso
Posted 10 January 2006 - 06:59 AM
Posted 10 January 2006 - 09:30 AM
Hell, one American I know of is doing the right thing. Bill Gates is spending billions each year saving lives
Tue Jan 10 08:55:07 EST 2006
Microsoft Stock Price: $26.86
Bill Gates's Wealth: $63.954917 billion
U.S. Population: 297,880,607
Your Personal Contribution: $214.70
"If you want to know what God thinks about money, just look at the people He gives it to."
-- Old Irish Saying
The governments and people of our western nations should hang our heads in shame that we have allowed this situation to develop.
On any given night, over 37,000 people are homeless in New York City, including more than 16,000 children. The population of the New York City municipal shelter system reached a record high in December 2002.
According to the Ford Foundation, nearly fifty percent of all homeless women and children are fleeing domestic violence. According to New York State Comptroller Alan Hevesi's report during the first quarter of 1997, the New York City Police Department reported 83,040 reports; however the current number of shelter beds in the City was only 1,201.
According to Homes For The Homeless, families account for 38% of America's homeless.
Each night across America more than one million children have no place to call home.
Edited by Scarlett, 10 January 2006 - 09:35 AM.
Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:10 PM
My point is simply that you are deflecting the point away from what it was originally meant to be and by doing so make implications and associations to make innocent victims appear guilty.
When I say that some people believe we are the terrorists, I mean by we, our society. Please don't personalise it and try and deflect my point by making it seem as somehow I am attacking the victims of the tragedy of september 11.
The point is that the victims are in no way culpable for being attacked. And again, it's not just for those who died, but anyone who was victimized.
Their violent death in no way diminishes the consequeces of our society's culpubility in the state of the world and the numbers of people that die from lack of clean drinking water and food and preventable disease while we gorge ourselves on the fruits of the earth.
Culpable you ask, for the deaths of these people? How so? Well, Americans (and I use America as an example, although all western countries bear responsibiliy) spend more money on pet food each year than on providing aid to impoverished people. Look at the amounts spent of weapons, drugs, cosmetics, cigarettes, alcohol. We spend more money on each of these items than we do on trying to save innocent lives.
The people who died are no more special than anyone else. It is my belief that each individual in this world is special. It's the event that should be remembered. Perhaps tribute is not the right word.
What makes these 3000 people who were so tragically murdered so much more special than the millions of others who die, largely due to our society's greed and neglect? When was the last silent tribute for them?
I understand your feelings about the event. I share them. I merely point out that we should show the same feelings for the countless people suffering and dying all around the world, EVERY DAY. Be democratic in your goodwill and sorrow. It does not belittle the victims of Sepember 11 to do so.
I argue that it is not my fault. I understand the point that our government acts in our name, and therefore we share some responsibility for those actions, however ill-advised they may be. But to argue that we and our government are culpable for the 911 attack plays into Bin Laden's argument that the US and anyone who doesn't believe in the extremist fundamentalist Islamic view is evil and deserves to die. He'll say we are the terrorists, too, because we don't spend all our money to help the indigent that he has spent money to help. Do you admire Bin Laden because of that? What about all the money he's spent on guns and killing?
You may argue that it is not our fault. The government should be held to account, not the people. I argue that, according to your founding fathers, the government is of the people, by the people, for the people. If the government bears the responsibility then so do we for allowing it to be so. If all of us actually thought about issues and acted then we may get the government we deserve.
You ask me a question here and assume you know the answer, which I have to say I resent. It's funny you bring up the example of lightening. As I was writing my previous response, a thunderstorm was occuring. So yeah I do think about being struck by lightening. Nevertheless I take your point. But if you don't understand what the terrorist threat is after the events of 911, I doubt that I can explain it to you.
As to this "war" we are apparently fighting. The reality is that an American has more chance of being hit by lightning than dying in a terrorist incident. You think much about getting struck by lightning? No? Me either. So, what really is this terrorist threat? Is it worth the costs? The costs in monetary terms, in loss of civil liberties, in international standing, in reputation?
Well, there is no spin to the fact that we were attacked. I won't even get into the issue of gun control. Definitely for another topic, and wearing seat belts? Give me a break. I can't believe such an inane argument would be brought up in a topic about respecting the suffering of others. That's a matter of personal liberty. So do you think the government should stop spending money on helping others and use it to force people to wear seat belts?
I am constantly amazed by the success of the spin doctors who have convinced so many people to get behind this new war. You want to reduce the number of American deaths? Do you really? Get rid of your guns. Start wearing seat belts. These two inexpensive initiatives will save thousands of American lives every year.
I never advocated that. Simply pointed out that we were attacked. That is a fact. And the war on terror is not new. Whether you are behind the war or not is your choice.
So please, dont try and get me behind your new war.
First I hope you're not implying that I'm a mindless follower that is 100 percent behind everything Dubya says and does--nothing could be further from the truth. But he is the president and if he hadn't said we are at war with the terrorists, then there would have been no reaction to the attack. Are we to just allow bin laden and his cohorts to feel safe in doing what they want to do without going after him? If someone comes after you with a knife, do you just let them stab you to death?
Just because George W. Bush says we are at war, it dont make it so. I've had it with self declared wars. The cold war; the war you have when your not having a war. The war on drugs; thats the one where we haven't won a battle in 60 years, let alone the war. That's the one that actually declares war on our own citizens in effect.
Let's put it this way. Who is helped by a funeral? Funerals are for the living. For those of us still living, a remembrance is just paying respect. I don't know about you, but something died inside of me when those towers came down. I should be allowed to grieve without being made to feel guilty. So should everyone.
Who is your silent tribute helping? Your tribute to these victims should be a vocal one. You should be shouting from the rooftops a message to help those people who are still alive and desperately need your voice and your vote on their side.
Edited by Papakid, 10 January 2006 - 01:25 PM.
The thing about people
is they change
when they walk away.--Mipso
Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:24 PM
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