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Do you believe this?


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13 replies to this topic

#1 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 05:29 PM

I found this I wonder if its real?
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm
What do you think?

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#2 gunner

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 05:59 PM

Absolute rubbish of the worst kind. People have been theorizing about the illumaniti forever. It would take a conspiracy bigger than lake New Orleans to pull that off.

Edited by gunner, 02 September 2005 - 06:00 PM.

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#3 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 06:31 PM

I dont believe it. I mean why would our government have a reason to hide a missle coming in? Others also would have saw it. All of the planes that were stolen where crashed.

Edited by cowsgonemadd3, 02 September 2005 - 06:31 PM.


#4 jgweed

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 07:41 PM

Way back when I was taking a philosophy of history seminar, we proved that Napoleon never existed. Some people will present evidence that the existence of the Holocaust was a conspiracy.
Such theories exist by virtue of historical Sophists ignoring the very large and public body of evidence and the writings of trained historians and other experts, concentrating on a few isolated "facts" and subjecting those to overly careful examination.
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should be silent.

#5 yano

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 09:46 PM

I don't know what to believe, but I've heard almost every version of conspiracy for this. But I do find it hard to believe that a plane could have done that little damage, I mean a plane with enough fuel that has to go 3500 miles to its destination didn't have a bigger explosion? I mean I've seen gas dumped in a fire ring and instantly it would jump up and light up. But hundreds of gallons of fuel come on? But I can see the explosion of the twin towers legit, there was a big enough explosion on those. But I just don't see how that a 757's wing didn't leave a mark in the building, if the plane was to be traveling at such a fast speed... you would think it would have gotten deeper into the building. And if the pilots who were trained in Florida or where ever were able to bring it in, almost level? over that highway? thats almost impossible, you would need a really experienced pilot or even a military pilot to do that. And if I were flying a plane and never taught how to fly I would nose dive at it. And if the terrorist were actually smart like that government wants us to thing they are, wouldn't they attack the center so it would make it harder for the rescue crew to get to it? And it would be harder to put it out? And most likely easier to crash a plane there.

Edited by yanowhiz, 03 September 2005 - 09:34 AM.


#6 legoman786

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 11:48 PM

i am scatching my head on what to believe, but i have to agree with yanowhiz. since when do 757s make such little explosions? the thing is loaded to do a cross-country flight, and such a small explosion... tell me i'm believing a conspiracy story, but i believe what i believe.

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#7 Zen00

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 04:46 PM

The thing you forget I think is that the Pentagon was built to withstand gigantic blasts from missiles, but the trade towers were not. That's why there was so little damage at the Pentagon, but the trade towers fell.
This space will eventually have something very cool to fill it up, but not right now.

#8 jgweed

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 04:55 PM

Good point, ZenOO. We are talking about WW2 construction with very thick walls and different materials. The Towers were mostly steel and glass and hit from a different angle, while the Pentagon seemed almost to be slided into.

Secondly, given the time between impact (collaborated by eye-witnesses) and the public reporting of the event, it would seem unlikely that conspirators could come up with tons of debris matching those of a 747. Are we to presume that this was stored somewhere just in the event something like this would happen; even granting this, moving so much and so many large pieces quickly to the site would hardly be secret nor could it be organised in the short time.

Regards,
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#9 yano

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 06:23 PM

Come on John, your the philosopher, your the one that said you guys were able to prove Napolean Bonabarte never existed, as well as the holocaust. I mean, its like what you said the Media and the government are just as bias, they repeat and stress only the "key" facts.

See this falls into other categories of the governments secrets. If we knew every single thing that happened on 9-11 don't you think we would either not believe or believe depending on what the truth was.

http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/p...on-analysis.htm

http://www.physics911.net/omholt.htm

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php

Edited by yanowhiz, 04 September 2005 - 06:40 PM.


#10 KoanYorel

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 06:46 PM

Claim:  The damage to the Pentagon on September 11 was caused by something other than a hijacked Boeing 757's being crashed into its side.

Status:  False.


Urban Legends at Snopes.com

Enough said!

Talk to someone that was actually there. I have.

Edited by KoanYorel, 04 September 2005 - 06:49 PM.

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#11 jgweed

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 06:55 PM

The point of making Napoleon "go away," is that you can take an "obvious" historical phenomenon, one that has existence in space and time, and by isolating individual "facts" make each fact dubious by over examination and by ignoring all those other facts that provide its warrent.
History exists because events ("facts") hang together architectonically and coherently - - -that how meaning operates. Much the same can be said for miracles which defy coherence(see Hume's remarks: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/hume-miracles.html
******

If we knew every single thing that happened on 9-11


What we know is not every single thing, but a whole horizon of events and interpretations FIRST; only given this initial meaning-context can we "back out" individual events (or how else would we know that the event was pertinent?) for consideration.

Lastly, to say "IF we knew" certainly applies to everything; press this kind of argument from ignorance far enough and you end up in shifting sand; "IF we knew" sets an impossible standard that cannot be attained, and to judge by this standard doesn't move understanding further along.
Cheers,
John
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#12 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 07:00 PM

Thanks Koan!

#13 yano

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 07:16 PM

Well if the government wanted to prove what really happen then how come they never relaesed any of the seized video cameras from the surrounding buildings?



The fire chief wasn't asked "where the aircraft was"; he was asked "Is there anything left of the aircraft at all?" He did indeed provide an answer to the question he was asked: There were no large sections of the plane left by the time he was asked (the day after the attack) because they had been smashed into smaller pieces by the impact and then burned up; all that remained were smaller pieces visible only from the interior of the Pentagon.

Personally I have to laugh at them saying that the wings were burned. And the fusselage would had to have had some of it left, now all of it would have gone into the pentagon.


Posted Image
This is also what I find hard to believe is that lawn (regardless if it came in level or nose dived) would have still have scorched the yard or at least scartched the yard.


Posted Image
How could a B-757 have not pentrated more layers, and only created the "perfect" cut on the side of the building. I don't think a B-757 can act like scissors and cut its way in there perfectly.

Sources: http://www.physics911.net/omholt.htm

Also if you really believe it was a plane, try this walkthough that will help you find it: http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pen.../erreurs_en.htm

Edited by yanowhiz, 04 September 2005 - 07:17 PM.


#14 highlander

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 08:51 PM

I'm not sure about a conspiracy theory, or maybe don't want to believe it, BUT how come the wings (with engines) didn't even mark the outside of the building? I find that fact rather difficult to reason out!
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