Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

some website info?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
28 replies to this topic

#1 kitkin15

kitkin15

  • Members
  • 175 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sioux City, IA
  • Local time:05:00 PM

Posted 10 February 2010 - 01:24 PM

ok, im 17 and im doing a report on "torture and the CIA" i am trying to justify the use of torture on terrorists.

i am looking for websites (legit) that say how many terrest attempts we stoped with the use of torture, im looking but its kind of hard to find.

i konw this is a little different than whats saposed to be on here, but yahoo answers is blocked, so i need to post here.

thanks for any help =)

Edit: Moved topic from Web Browsing/Email and Other Internet Applications to the more appropriate forum. Also added a topic descriptor. ~ Animal

EDIT 2: I believe this should go to Speakeasy-MG

Edited by garmanma, 12 February 2010 - 04:22 PM.

Fix everything, if nothing is left to fix than break something.

BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 jgweed

jgweed

  • Staff Emeritus
  • 28,473 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, Il.
  • Local time:05:00 PM

Posted 10 February 2010 - 02:43 PM

Aristotle wrote that you cannot have a science (he meant knowledge) of non-being;in the same light, you cannot Google what is most likely not for public consumption. I would suspect that the information you want is absolutely "top secret" and that if you do find information, it would not be trustworthy but just opinion.
You may have to take another line of argumentation that relies less on "facts" and more on knowledge about the human condition.
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should be silent.

#3 the_patriot11

the_patriot11

    High Tech Redneck


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,755 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wyoming USA
  • Local time:03:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 04:09 AM

I personally, dont see any reason to want to justify torture for any means, and like jgweed said-if the CIA did or does use torture, they for sure are not public about it. I see no reason to torture anyone, even terrorists

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.


#4 Platypus

Platypus

  • Moderator
  • 13,739 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Local time:08:00 AM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 05:31 AM

i am looking for websites (legit) that say how many terrest attempts we stoped with the use of torture, im looking but its kind of hard to find.

There is no way to know this. We cannot tell how many terrorist actions there would have been if torture had not been used.

Top 5 things that never get done:

1.


#5 garmanma

garmanma

    Computer Masochist


  • Staff Emeritus
  • 27,809 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Local time:06:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 10:56 AM

Terrorism and torture - Allhoff - Cited by 17
The Case for Torture - Levin - Cited by 18
Philosophy of law - Feinberg - Cited by 65

http://www.google.com/search?q=terrorism+a...lient=firefox-a

I doubt if you find any numbers
Mark
Posted Image
why won't my laptop work?

Having grandkids is God's way of giving you a 2nd chance because you were too busy working your butt off the 1st time around
Do not send me PMs with problems that should be posted in the forums. Keep it in the forums, so everyone benefits
Become a BleepingComputer fan: Facebook and Twitter

#6 kitkin15

kitkin15
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 175 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sioux City, IA
  • Local time:05:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 12:18 PM

ok well the CIA has been outted for the use of torture.

i have a 5 page report, nothing but facts are allowed.

the CIA has stoped 110 plots to bomb places, i know this as a fact. im pretty sure there are more than that though. they dont keep it as top secret as you think, im not sure if you have read the news latly, but the white house let out some top secret info about a terrest the tried to bomb a plain over christiman, there is a big fight over it now.

if it has anything to do with the gov, than at least one person will out it. thats how politics work.

i dont mean any of this is a bad way, i know it dont sound nice but i dont mean it like that lol.

thanks for the info, im really happy. im trying to get at least 6 sorces in all (i need to give credit to 6 sorces =( )
Fix everything, if nothing is left to fix than break something.

#7 kitkin15

kitkin15
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 175 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sioux City, IA
  • Local time:05:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 12:26 PM

"I personally, dont see any reason to want to justify torture for any means, and like jgweed said-if the CIA did or does use torture, they for sure are not public about it. I see no reason to torture anyone, even terrorists"

do you know what waterbording is? they get a peice of cloth, and poor water on it. this give s you the sensation of drowning. relize i said "sensitation"

torture gives you mental or physical pain, but will not kill you. torriorests are trained to go through this kind of stuff. so they take alot. you do not die so its not all that bad.

another thing is 9-11. do you remember that day? ido, i was sitting in class in 4th grade, i was scared to death it was the cold war all over agin (ive been into politics sense i was very little). i remember looking at a magazine, and a small child around my age was running out of one of the towers as it crashed...i just pictured that child as me...it could have happened at my school...that could be me.

now think of you as that child. what would you want? i would want to stop that from happening to any other person, child or aldult. torture is morally wrong, but it IS needed at some times. do you think the agents that do it like it? no, they have to go through it to work in the position their in (kind of like a cop and a taser gun).

i think that torture is ok, as long as you dont abuse the right to torture.
go to kitkin15.blogspot.com for more info, it is not facts, only personal opinions.
Fix everything, if nothing is left to fix than break something.

#8 Animal

Animal

    Bleepin' Animinion


  • Site Admin
  • 34,570 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where You Least Expect Me To Be
  • Local time:03:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:03 PM

Too add some thought here. How many acts of terrorism have been borne because of the idea of CIA or Allied torture? In either case the general public will never know the truth or be able to deal in verified numbers. It is impossible to know for a fact a terrorist act was subverted solely because of an admission of information. Coerced information is dubious at best. However it is information unavailable prior to the act of torture. But is coerced information 'quality' information?

The definition of the word 'terrorism' is a moving target in todays microsecond media. Almost to the point of ubiquity.

The preceding is not meant to spark debate or gales of protest. Just presenting a view askew.

The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.
Andrew Brown (1938-1994)


A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that." Douglas Adams (1952-2001)


"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination circles the world." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+

#9 Andrew

Andrew

    Bleepin' Night Watchman


  • Moderator
  • 8,250 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Right behind you
  • Local time:03:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:10 PM

I, as always, yield to the wisdom of Captain Jean-Luc Picard:

"Torture has never been a reliable means of extracting information. It is ultimately self-defeating as a means of control. One wonders it is still practiced."

#10 Animal

Animal

    Bleepin' Animinion


  • Site Admin
  • 34,570 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where You Least Expect Me To Be
  • Local time:03:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:16 PM

Make it so. :thumbsup:

The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.
Andrew Brown (1938-1994)


A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that." Douglas Adams (1952-2001)


"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination circles the world." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+

#11 kitkin15

kitkin15
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 175 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sioux City, IA
  • Local time:05:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:36 PM

animal, the first thing you said was pretty ture. i understand what you are getting at.

it is hard to tell if the use of torture stoped the plot, but its not worth the chance.

if i knew you were going to get shot, would you want me to wait and see? or do you want me to try and stop it?

now think about the people who would die in a attack, maybe the plot would fail, but maybe it wont. i dont think the chance should be taken.

and if someone is going to take a life, or a couple houndered lives, is it worth to take the chance? dont you think that people like that shouldnt be out in the world? that they should be in a "crazy house" or prision, or even better, put to death?

oh and amazing andrew, is animal your cat =) lol
Fix everything, if nothing is left to fix than break something.

#12 Animal

Animal

    Bleepin' Animinion


  • Site Admin
  • 34,570 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where You Least Expect Me To Be
  • Local time:03:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:46 PM

As I said, I didn't make my statements to be debated so I won't respond to the 'do we take a chance' questions, which I consider now rhetorical. My statement was intended to spark the question, if torture allegedly stopped some 'terror' couldn't it have also ignited some as well? I don't expect an answer, just to think about the possibility.

The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.
Andrew Brown (1938-1994)


A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that." Douglas Adams (1952-2001)


"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination circles the world." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+

#13 kitkin15

kitkin15
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 175 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sioux City, IA
  • Local time:05:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:49 PM

yes, and thank you. i am sorry, i have a problem with debating....its really easy for me to do lol.

thanks for your help, and i hope you dont think i was being disrespectful.

-kitkin15
Fix everything, if nothing is left to fix than break something.

#14 Animal

Animal

    Bleepin' Animinion


  • Site Admin
  • 34,570 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where You Least Expect Me To Be
  • Local time:03:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 02:20 PM

Not at all. And thank you as well.

The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.
Andrew Brown (1938-1994)


A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that." Douglas Adams (1952-2001)


"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination circles the world." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+

#15 Capn Easy

Capn Easy

  • Members
  • 597 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Local time:06:00 PM

Posted 11 February 2010 - 10:00 PM

It has been widely reported (reliably, I think) that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times while in CIA custody. It has also been reported that he gave information as a result of this "torture." Presumably, if the justification for the waterboarding was to obtain intelligence, the waterboarding would have stopped at least shortly after he gave information. My question is, can this be called an efficient way of obtaining information if it takes 183 times? In intelligence and matters of terrorism, time is important. It takes a lot of time to do that much waterboarding -- by the time you have names and locations, they've had time to move.

Meanwhile, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab -- the failed Christmas Bomber -- was read his rights and taken into custody. Members of his family were allowed to speak to him and reliable reports are that he began providing valuable information right away.

I'm satisfied that the second option was faster, cheaper, less controversial -- basically, better in every regard.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users