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Overclocking help


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#1 voltronDefender

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 03:51 PM

Hi;

I am resurrecting an old pc for additional use (trial software use and cad drawing if possible). It's an old Celeron based pc with an Asus P4 motherboard. I was given an additional DDR 400 ram by my friend and I installed it in the available slots. I noticed that it seems there wasn't any change in the pc "speed-wise". It acts as if it used to have the old 1 gb again. The system recognized the additional ram installed (1gb Kingston / 512mb Samsung both PC3200 DDR).

I checked using Everest Home and it seems that I need to overclock or do some adjustments to have some speed.

Can someone take a look at the Everest overclock and SPD readings attached here...I do not understand what and how to do it. Everest readings says I have a 3-5-5-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) but the rams I have have:

[ DIMM3: Wintec (512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM) ]
Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

[ DIMM2: Kingston K ]
Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

[ DIMM1: 1 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM ]
Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-4-4-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-3-3-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

I think the settings that Windows gave is quite slow...or a I wrong?

Can I adjust the settings in the BIOS?

Is it safe to adjust it?

Can someone teach me how to do it inclusing the safety precautions I should be aware of?

Pleae help me with this problem.

Thank you very much.

voltronDefender

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#2 the_patriot11

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 08:59 PM

if this is your primary computer, I would NOT recomend overclocking it unless you know what your doing. overclocking done right is hard on equipment, overclocking done wrong will fry your computer. If its not though and your wanting to learn, well, looks like a good starting point to learn.

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#3 Eric ~ Computer Guy

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 11:43 PM

I'm not much of an overclocker (too risky), but I know that the readouts that you have are the latency timings for the RAM modules that you have installed. That aren't running at the same speed, so overclocking will more than likely end up with system instability, and possible hardware failure due to heat or electrical damage.

I would remove the...

[ DIMM1: 1 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM ]
Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-4-4-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-3-3-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

...as it is the old-ball. Now, if it is the newest, then remove the others and replace them with modules that are running at the same latencies. This could also be at the root of your system slowdown. Mismatched Bus Speeds are usually ok, but mismatched latency timings can be volatile.

#4 voltronDefender

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 03:06 PM

Hi :thumbsup: ;

Thanks for the reply guys.

Hi the patriot09;

It's only a back-up pc but I intend to run ACAD08 on it that's why I need to have it run at 2gb ram.

H Eric~Computer;

Oh..so overclocking is not adviced on this issue...A couple of questions more please..I looked up the old Everest report when I was still using the Celeron PC and it says:

---old set-up had 1.5gb of ram----
Chipset Properties:
Motherboard Chipset ULi/ALi M1683
Memory Timings 3-5-5-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

SPD Memory Modules:
DIMM2: Team Group Team-Value-400
512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
(3.0-4-4-8 @ 200 MHz)
(2.5-4-4-7 @ 166 MHz)
(2.0-3-3-6 @ 142 MHz)

DIMM3
1 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
(3.0-4-4-8 @ 200 MHz)
(2.5-3-3-7 @ 166 MHz)
(2.0-3-3-6 @ 133 MHz)


You suggested (for the Celeron "supposed to be resurrected pc with 2.5gb ram").....


"I would remove the...

[ DIMM1: 1 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM ]
Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-4-4-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-3-3-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

...as it is the old-ball. Now, if it is the newest, then remove the others and replace them with modules that are running at the same latencies. This could also be at the root of your system slowdown. Mismatched Bus Speeds are usually ok, but mismatched latency timings can be volatile."

I still have the Team Group Team-Value-400 512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM here,

(1) Will replacing the suggested "odd-ball" with it be a kind of a fix to it or will it still be the same?

You mentioned...


"...mismatched latency timings can be volatile."

(2) How volatile does it can be? (sorry I'm not really a "techy" the reason why I ask these kind of questions..pardon for it.)

(3) What are the odds or consequences of running the 2.5gb set-up for the "supposed to be resurrected pc"? (I really need to have at least 2gb of ram for ACAD08 to run smoothly..)

Along this line (and in reference..), I also see that the old Everest report I looked-up showed a timing of 3-5-5-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) which is the same as the installation I am now doing in the "supposed to be resurrected pc with 2.5gb ram".

(4) Does this mean that the speed of the old set-up is the same as the new set-up for the "supposed to be resurrected pc 2.5gb ram"?

(5) ..and, regardless of the additional increase in ram, the speed/perfomance of the "supposed to be resurrected pc with 2.5gb ram" would be the same as having 1.5gb of ram?


Another option I have is I also have an old ECS motherboard with an AMD Athlon XP 2000 chip. It's also for DDR PC3200 ram.

(6) If I install the 2.5gb ram on it will it be the same as the 3-5-5-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)?

(7) Is the speed/performance will more likely be the same as the Celeron set-up?

I hope I didn't bore you with my inquiries. I am really not a techy and this the reason why I joined the forum..again...I really need to have a back-up pc that will be ready to run ACAD08 and probably some Statistical software which require 2gb of ram...can you help me with some suggested options?

Thank you very much! :flowers:

Edited by voltronDefender, 30 November 2009 - 03:16 PM.


#5 Eric ~ Computer Guy

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 08:54 PM

I will answer the questions in order to the best of my knowledge. As I said, I am not an overclocker, and I generally leave system settings alone due to the nature of overclocking in and of itself can cause system instability and hardware damage. I am more of a software person. I can build you a good PC using factory and stock settings, and I can make sure it is stable, but I do not mess with the clock speed and I always match up memory based on ECC and latency measures. The bus speed is a different issue, as all memory will clock down automatically to the lowest clock speed of the bunch. Now that you have read my disclaimer, here we go:

1) By exchanging the stick of ram that is (possibly) running with different latency timings, you could eliminate the system slow-downs you are receiving. Since you have no obvious reason for the slow system performance, and since you upgraded the ram and it SHOULD increase the performance, it could be because the latency of the ram sticks aren't compatible. I would try removing the newest stick of ram, run the system for a couple of days and see how it performs. That may be the fix in and of itself. If you do that, you should just replace that ram with a stick that has the same latency timings as the sticks currently in your system.

2) By volatile, I mean they could go completely wacky (unstable, blue screens, page faults, overheating, hardware failure) if they are overclocked, as they seem to not be working so well together at stock speeds.

3) Running a 2.5 GB setup on this system would be a good idea, on paper. The issue here, as I mentioned above, is more than likely the difference in ram latency. Since you popped in the newer 1 GB stick, you said your system has taken a hit in performance. I am basing my theory on that info, and the fact that the ram modules are timed differently.

4) The speed of your system can be measured in multiple ways. The speed of your processor will still be the bottleneck of this system, no matter how much ram you put into it. Since you are doing some ACAD, the ram is needed to help store the info as it hits the processor, but the processor will have the biggest impact on your system's overall performance and speed.

5) 1.5 GB and 2.5 GB make little difference if you are in Windows, but the applications you are running (ACAD) will benefit from the increase. I would recommend making sure you stay at 2.5 GB, but the key here is to get the ram to play nice and run properly.

6) The timings are all based on the ram modules. You will have to read carefully when you purchase new ram to make sure it matches up with the ram currently installed on your PC.

7) Yet again, the speed performance will be bottlenecked by the Celeron's clock speed and L2 Cache (which it has little of). The ram will help with how programs run, and will allow you to run more memory-demanding programs, but your system will always be bottlenecked by the older processor.

I understand the fact that you are wanting to overclock the Celeron to make it operate faster, and I am in no way trying to dissuade you from doing so. Just because I do not overclock doesn't mean you shouldn't. I am just trying to help you get your system to a stable speed as it is, before overclocking. The fact that your system got slower after adding ram is the point I am concerned with. And if you overclock to overcome the system slowdown that the new ram caused, you are not only skirting the original issue, you are probably creating a slew of new issues as well.

If I have missed any of your points, please let me know. And if anyone has info that I have missed, feel free to add in.

Edited by Eric ~ Computer Guy, 30 November 2009 - 08:59 PM.


#6 voltronDefender

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:40 PM

Hi Eric ~ Computer Guy;


Thanks for the reply dude! :flowers:

I am enlightened on your reply. I do understand your "disclaimer". It's okay I really wanted to have variance of opinion here at this forum to understand it better. I really appreciate the effort given. :trumpet:

Let me reply at the end of each explanation:

1) By exchanging the stick of ram that is (possibly) running with different latency timings, you could eliminate the system slow-downs you are receiving. Since you have no obvious reason for the slow system performance, and since you upgraded the ram and it SHOULD increase the performance, it could be because the latency of the ram sticks aren't compatible. I would try removing the newest stick of ram, run the system for a couple of days and see how it performs. That may be the fix in and of itself. If you do that, you should just replace that ram with a stick that has the same latency timings as the sticks currently in your system.

Will try this one and will get back to you on this.

2) By volatile, I mean they could go completely wacky (unstable, blue screens, page faults, overheating, hardware failure) if they are overclocked, as they seem to not be working so well together at stock speeds.

Understood. I am now completely convinced that overclocking is not good due to the issues with ram latency timings.

3) Running a 2.5 GB setup on this system would be a good idea, on paper. The issue here, as I mentioned above, is more than likely the difference in ram latency. Since you popped in the newer 1 GB stick, you said your system has taken a hit in performance. I am basing my theory on that info, and the fact that the ram modules are timed differently.

Yes, I agree. I was really hoping that when I installed the additional modules the pc to be resurrected will be faster, but then again the latency timings are not jiving together.

4) The speed of your system can be measured in multiple ways. The speed of your processor will still be the bottleneck of this system, no matter how much ram you put into it. Since you are doing some ACAD, the ram is needed to help store the info as it hits the processor, but the processor will have the biggest impact on your system's overall performance and speed.

Understood.

5) 1.5 GB and 2.5 GB make little difference if you are in Windows, but the applications you are running (ACAD) will benefit from the increase. I would recommend making sure you stay at 2.5 GB, but the key here is to get the ram to play nice and run properly.

If what I try in your suggestion in reply #1 doesn't work then I'll just leave it the 2.5gb set-up as is.

Is that okay to leave it at that? :cool:

Will there be no ill effects if I do that?
:woot:


6) The timings are all based on the ram modules. You will have to read carefully when you purchase new ram to make sure it matches up with the ram currently installed on your PC.

The additional ram was only given by a friend. I didn't purchase it. Was thinking of really having a standby pc to do stuff when I don't want my current pc be riddled with project related work and trial stuff. Since he didn't have a use for it and I still have the old pc I asked if I could have it. The cost of old dimms are forbidding compared to newer ones..but, I'll remember to check the timings when I check out additional ram for my current system. :inlove:

7) Yet again, the speed performance will be bottlenecked by the Celeron's clock speed and L2 Cache (which it has little of). The ram will help with how programs run, and will allow you to run more memory-demanding programs, but your system will always be bottlenecked by the older processor.

Yeah. I always have thought thought that the Celeron processor will always be a bottleneck regardless of the increase in ram...tsk. :cool:

--
Thanks again a lot dude for your reply. I'll just wait for your reply on item#5 and other suggestion that other forum members would like to add.

Maybe when I try it out with another old motherboard (ECS KT600-A)which has an Athlon XP 2000 chip you can also help me out if there are issues.

Kind regards!! :thumbsup:

Edited by voltronDefender, 01 December 2009 - 01:43 PM.





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