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What do you think of this?


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23 replies to this topic

#1 TheEgg

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 02:49 AM

I think this is crazy that job applications ask you for your race. Why is this allowed? They say its for survey purposes, but how can you believe them? Try (as an employer) putting a hidden camera in a dressing room and saying "Oh thats just there monitor the janitor and make sure he does a good job" That'll never fly.

And why do all the other choices say (Not Hispanic or Latino). It seems like they just want to know if you're Hispanic/Latino or not. I'm trying to think whats the best choice to put down. I'm not going to answer a question like this honestly if the answer I put will help/hurt my chances which I believe it DOES.

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#2 groovicus

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 06:57 AM

1) Yes, they can ask.
2) Businesses use the results to show the government (or judicial system) that they are not discriminating in who they allow to apply, which is illegal.
3) The questions are optional.
4) If you believe that not answering an OPTIONAL question honestly is going to hurt you, then don't answer it. What do you think will happen when you show up for an interview and it is obvious that you lied?

#3 JohnWho

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 07:40 AM

(quote name='TheEgg' ) And why do all the other choices say (Not Hispanic or Latino). It seems like they just want to know if you're Hispanic/Latino or not.
(end quote)


I'm not sure I understand that part, either.

Especially with that last choice: "Two or more races (not Hispanic or Latino)".

Which of the choices would be proper for someone of two or more races with at least one being Hispanic or Latino?


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#4 Wildabeast

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 09:09 AM

Yes that section is optional. To make a short story long, I interviewed for a city job once and it turned out the interviewer knew my brother in law. We talked for a while and he told me he had to hire a "minority" to keep in line with the city equal employment guide lines or whatever. Anyway, he told me that if applicants did not fill that out, his secretary would mark down what she thought the person might be, since she took the paperwork back from you. So you might want to fill that in, if you don't, who knows what could happen... :thumbsup:
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#5 Queen-Evie

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 09:15 AM

My daughter is white, my son-in-law is Puerto Rican.
My son is white, my daughter-in-law is from the country of Colombia.

They both have one child each.

None of the choices in the screenshot would be appropriate for those children.

#6 _Allan_

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 09:26 AM

in Canada, the company would be fined massively as it's illegal to ask for age, sex, race, religion, or orientation on an application.
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#7 Animal

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 12:53 PM

If you read the question, it says optional and for use by a company called PeopleAnswers. PeopleAnswers is a company that works with the Human Resources componets of many large corporations. A few of the potential benefits of answering the question is to identify the company's demographics so that the company can then, "Reduce Turnover and Improve Performance" also "Empower managers to provide high-impact coaching". It's a company that is having a contractor help them learn who and what their candidate pool consists of.

As a manager that hires, the more I understand who my candidates are, the more relevant my interview will be for both of us. So that I am able to place the right people in the right job. Nothing irritates a candidate and a manager more than being in the wrong job doing something you hate to do. The manager works harder keeping the new hire focused and on task and the new hire hates being watched doing a job they hate.

The key wording is OPTIONAL and it identifies who is using the data.

@ _Allan_ The company in question is a US based corporation and well within the legal boundaries of US and state law compliance to ask an 'Optional' question.

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#8 Monty007

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 03:16 PM

A question like this would be illegal in Australia. Yes the question is optional Animal but what if the company could use information supplied, to make a decision on who to hire based on race?
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#9 groovicus

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 03:25 PM

It is still illegal to discriminate based on sex, race, or religion. The purpose of collecting that sort of information is, as Animal suggested, to help managers fit the right person to the right job. Additionally, businesses can use the same information to prove that they have not been discriminatory in the application and hiring process. Yes, the information could be used to discriminate. Animal (not picking on you) could have an applicant come in and decide that he didn't like an applicant based on their hair color.

By your argument, sporting goods stores should not sell guns because someone might get shot. So now I have a question. What does the Australian government do to prevent discriminatory hiring practices? And how do businesses protect themselves from being accused of discriminatory practices? I would be hard pressed to believe that someone is not keeping track of those statistics.

EDIT: I just checked out the page of the Equal Opportunity Commission in Australia, and claims that questions about age, race, gender, or disability are illegal in Australia is BS. Clearly an employer can can ask any of those questions in determining whether or not an applicant is suitable for a job. It is no different than it is here.

EDIT@: I also just checked with NAALC and pulled up a PDF that also says that in some cases, employers can discriminate based on personal characteristics for valid job requirements. Sorry; going to have to call BS on the notion that it is illegal in Canada also.

#10 Animal

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 05:11 PM

The reality is that a hiring manager could decide to not interview the candidates who declined to answer. That is not illegal by the way. The basis could be that those who decline to participate in optional personnel demographic information gathering are more likely to resist team building exercises. In other words 'they are not a team player'. Thats the perception that could be generated.

Nothing more than subjectivity at it's finest. It's your choice which company to apply to and what you will put up with in the job hunt process. It's the company's choice who to hire, and what they will accept from applicants.

@Groovicus, if you weren't picking on me I would think I was slacking. :thumbsup:

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#11 Orange Blossom

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 10:12 AM

I've never seen that set of questions set up in just that way where EVERY category but one excludes "Hispanic or Latino". If I saw it phrased like that on MY job application, I'd tell them to whistle dixie as my impression would be that the company has strong biases and prejudices particularly concerning "Hispanics" and "Latinos". Usually, I see the option for "Other" included in the list.

I'm perverse. When I get that question I choose one of three things, when I choose to answer it that is:

Other - human

or

Other - mutt

or

Other - Teutonic


That last really makes a lot of folks scratch their heads. It seems most folks don't know what that means.

Categorizing people like that isn't cut and dried either.

Is someone from Spain considered "Hispanic" or "white" (assuming the person is pure Castilian)? Is someone from Portugal considered "Latino" or "white". "Latino", after all, is based on the word "Latin" which is the parent language for Spanish, Romanian, French, Italian, and Portuguese. Is someone from Rome considered "Latino" or is that person "Italian" and thereby "white"? Is someone from South Africa and of European ancestry considered "African-American"? What if someone has Portuguese, dark-skinned African, Navaho, French, British, German, Korean, and Mexican ancestry? How is that person going to answer that question? Is someone from Brazil considered "Hispanic" "Latino" or what? Not to mention that Brazil has folks with German ancestry, Vietnamese and many other backgrounds, and the official language of Brazil is Portuguese not Spanish.

Personally, I think that question should be kicked off every document that exists. Maybe replace it with something like: What is your national and cultural heritage? After all, there is only ONE human race, and that is HUMAN. I have yet to see a dolphin, lion, zebra, etc. apply for a job or unemployment benefits. I have yet to see a Vulcan, Martian, etc. apply for a job.

As for anti-discrimination, discrimination comes in all stripes and colors. No matter what kinds of questions are asked, discrimination still occurs legal or not. For example, someone could say "I didn't hire this person because of safety issues concerning clothing" when in reality, that person wasn't hired because of religion and the clothing was a key indicator of that person's religious affiliation and beliefs.

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#12 Guest_Abacus 7_*

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 11:05 AM

:thumbsup: :flowers:

Orange Blossom, that was so sweet, I Love you for that Comment. That is what Life is really about.

How DARE people try to Discriminate in subtle ways.

In real terms, as someone that ran many Businesses, I would prefer Workers that just wanted to work to the best of their ability. Often, that person was not from an Australian Background, but what the Heck? They worked harder for the same money. They had a point to prove and were gratefull for the chance to try it. I actually used to prefer to select them because of their ability to wotk.

Ray.

#13 groovicus

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 12:01 PM

How DARE people try to Discriminate in subtle ways.

In real terms, as someone that ran many Businesses, I would prefer Workers that just wanted to work to the best of their ability. Often, that person was not from an Australian Background, but what the Heck? They worked harder for the same money. They had a point to prove and were gratefull for the chance to try it. I actually used to prefer to select them because of their ability to wotk.


@abacus, You would prefer to hire those who do not have an Australian background because your perception is they will work harder? Hiring (or not hiring) anyone based on anything other than their qualifications is discrimination, unless the job requires that the person not have an Australian background. And you have the moxie to condemn others? You had no idea at all whether one person will work harder than another.

@orangeBlossom, typically on applications for government subsidized housing, or federal employment, their application forms will look almost exactly like that. Some years ago when they introduced the changes, I managed subsidized housing, and it confused us also. Here is a PDF from HUD. They were never able to sufficiently explain the reason for the extra category, other than (and I am paraphrasing) Hispanics and Latinos are the most common ethnicity in mixed-race families. I was thinking that once upon a time that you had mentioned traveling to South America (maybe not you) and were discussing the fact that there are both light and dark skinned Latinos. There are also light and dark skinned Hispanics. <shrug> I don't know. Like I said. It always confuses me too. Here are the further explanations from HUD:

Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish
culture or origin, regardless of race. The term ‚“Spanish origin‚ can be used in addition to ‚“Hispanic‚ or
‚“Latino.‚
Not Hispanic or Latino. A person not of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other
Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.


#14 BlackSpyder

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:55 PM

Maybe it's me (it usually is), but this one seams to be a little biased against Hispanics or Latinos as it repeats the "not hispanic or latino" after every choice. usually when I fill one of these questions out (either in rental agreements, job apps, or almost any form nowadays) the repeated part is "Not of Mixed race" ie:

_ Caucasian (Not of Mixed race)
_ African American (not of mixed Race)
_ Native American (Not of Mixed Race, Eskimo, or Inuit)
_ Eskimo or Inuit (Not of Mixed Race)
_ Hispanic or Latino
_ Mixed Race (Not Hispanic or Latino)
_ Other
_ Prefer not to Answer

but then again it may just be a typo, happens all the time.

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#15 Guest_Abacus 7_*

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 10:48 AM

:trumpet:

Just to clarify this?

In Australia we get, "are you Aboriginal Descent" or are you Thursday Islander's Descent"

We nearly wiped out our original Inhabatants originally and have Publically said "Sorry" for that.

People that answer Yes get unreal Benefits as a result. Check it out? Why should I give a Link?

Some of you people will find the Links about what the Bad Aussies did.

BTW, groovicus, I only employed people equally based on their ability to work, nothing to do with Race nor Qualifications. They got a casual Job to start in my Demolation Yard (Junk Yard) to show their worth, if they shaped up then I would take them on site with me. They then had to keep up to my Work Pace, as I was working alongside of them all. Yet I used to ensure that each one of my Workers got a Meal during the day.

Guess I am a bad person for that? It diddn't matter from what Race they were the Meal was the Bloody same.

:thumbsup: :flowers:

Edited by Abacus 7, 02 November 2009 - 11:16 AM.





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