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U.S.A. vs. Terrorists?


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#1 ericwhays

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 03:41 AM

I have a question. This whole "We have to save other people" theory, does not pan out for me.

I guess I will start with Iraq. First, gotta get Saddam. Why??? Too lazy to look for Osama for more than 2 months, I guess. So, since we are here...."ATTACK"!!!!! Now, we got him. And, next we turn him over to his cabinet for trial in an undisclosed location. Makes sence to me. :thumbsup: Well while we are here, let's go ahead and put someone in charge. Someone who will not back-talk us. Can't have that. Well now let's just stick around. Why??? We got Saddam, don't we? Hmmm. The public did not like the way the country was being ran so we take it over? What happens when enough people get tired of our "government"? Will someone liborate us? Will someone show us their way of doing things? I mean if we are sitting around having a gay ole time and I see something out of place, I will say something. IF IT IS MY PLACE. I would expect the same from anyone else toward me. If it is not your bussiness....keep it that way.
You get how I feel there.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!

All the terrorist is the Middle East. People killing people for no reason at all. That is just wrong. Got to make it stop. But....piss on L.A., New York, Detroit, Philly, etc... where people get killed ever single day, FOR NO REASON AT ALL.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!

The starving boys and girls, and homeless people in other countries. No offense, but, uhhh, how about the ones here? Oh. Piss on 'em, right? They don't need jobs. Send the jobs overseas. Or bring people here to work for less. Hey, I am all about making an extra buck, but damn..... That is messed up, no matter how you look at it.

Anyway. I am tired now so I will go. I hope that I haven't made anyone mad. I have in no way meant for any of this to sound like it is in any way "etched in stone" fact. It is just my own opinion. I really hope that I am not alone in feeling these things.

Eric Hays
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#2 dpb510

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 12:42 AM

Eric you're so right!
If this, or any other country really cared about "the people" we wouldn't have some folks living in the streets (50% are vets) while others have, not only one multi million dollar home, but several! And ball players wouldn't make obscene amounts of money, when police, fire, rescue, EMT, teachers, and most of us make a pittance.

Iraq is, and always was about the oil. Saddam, WMD, bio-weapons, terrorist, fighting for democracy are the newest excuses used to mullify the masses.
The Neocons (Bush and company) have said for many yrs that we have to secure that area of the world. http://zfacts.com/p/780.html

Our Republic has turned into an Oligarchy: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=oligarchy.
The corporations BUY both sides of the aisle, so there's no real difference between the DNC or RNC. Then after living off you and I for a few yrs, congressmen go to work for, guess who, the corp. Or they worked for the corp. before going into office. For instance, vice president D.Cheney, ran Halliburtan for several yrs.
The corp. get huge government contracts worth millions/billions of dollars. By the way....that's tax payers money!

Halliburton has the contract, among many others, to feed and water our troops in Iraq. And the charge per meal is $400 per meal, per troop. Yes $1200 a day per troop. Wow! And Hallibuton is under numerous investigations from bribes to over charging for, well, every thing. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6356265/.....http:....com/id/4163810
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0713-07.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/12/...ain549063.shtml

Now here's the real slap in the face. These same corp. that get all the sweet contracts, not only over charge, but are selling to the enemy as well!

HALLIBURTON EVADED U.S.SANCTIONS TO DO BUSINESS WITH IRAN: The Treasury Department reopened a 2001 inquiry that "centered on the legality of the business dealings between Iran and a Halliburton subsidiary incorporated in the Cayman Islands." Under Cheney's leadership, the company used loopholes that allowed "companies to get around the sanctions and conduct business through foreign subsidiaries as long as these entities are not run by Americans." [Source: Reuters, 2/11/04]
HALLIBURTON EVADED U.S.SANCTIONS AND DID BUSINESS WITH IRAQ: “According to oil industry executives and confidential United Nations records... Halliburton held stakes in two firms that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer of the Dallas-based company." [Source: Wash. Post, 6/23/01]

So Eric, don't apologize for asking questions or wondering why it's messed up. In fact we should be asking more questions and holding these people accountable.
.........dpb..........

#3 ericwhays

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 01:03 AM

Ok.... How can one man take a stand / make a change?

Eric

#4 dpb510

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 12:31 AM

First, people have to wake up to this info. So I try to keep up myself. And talk to as many people as possible. Of course most people think you're crazy, cuz you believe in all those conspiracy theories. But the facts speak for themselves and most of the info comes from very reliable sources.

Example. Have you ever heard of Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone? Check out this site: http://www.liberalslant.com/jt123003.htm.
Notice that his Sen seat was the one which decided if there was an RNC majority or not. And that he was one of a hand full of all the congressmen to vote against going to war with Iraq.

You'll hear that one person can't make a change. But what about Gandhi? He took his country back from the most powerful nation in the world at the time, with out any violence. In fact Gandhis ideas are whom Martin Luther King follow for the black movement in the 60s.

Most people won't speak out cuz they're afraid of the criticism. But I for one would rather take a little criticism than end up in a fascist state.
It's a difficult affair. And one with out an easy answer. For now this format seems to be one of the best. Unfortunately it will probably be shackled quickly.
........dpb........

#5 legoman786

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 05:41 PM

This information won't be easily spread. The government, who controls all the media, will not allow this kind of information out. If it was possible, we could somehow go around the government and hack into CNN or something like that and mess with the teleprompter. (I know the word "hack" is not appreciated here, but one's gotta say what one's gotta say) The pigs in the American government are just plain money hungry, and for what? Pointless wars that ruin the economy. That is why drinking and tobacco are not yet, I wish, illegal.

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.
- Rick Cook


#6 Ronbo

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 03:40 PM

There are so many things to respond to in this thread that I don't where to start. I guess I will start here;

First, gotta get Saddam. Why???


Why? maybe because a certain Saddam had the audacity to attempt to assassinate a certain ex-president to which a certain current president is related to. The oil is just an added bonus.

Well now let's just stick around. Why???


We have to stick around because it is our responsibility as conquerors/liberators (your choice) of the Saddam regime to make sure that the New Iraqi government is stable so that when we leave, it will not turn into a bloody civil war over there.

What happens when enough people get tired of our "government"? Will someone liborate us?


If you do not like our government, the mechanism is already in place to change it. It is called a voting booth. No need for anyone to liberate us because we can liberate ourselves peacefully by electing people to our government who will change the direction our country travels.

As to the terrorists over in Iraq, most of them are coming from other countries to kill Americans. The majority of Iraqi's are well happy to be rid of Saddam and are not the ones doing the suicide bombings and fighting over there. If any one should keep their noses out of other peoples business, it is the terrorists.

For the homeless and moving jobs overseas, you will get no argument from me.

Our Republic has turned into an Oligarchy


Our Republic has not magically turned into an Oligarchy. Study our history, it has always been those with the money that have controlled our government. Nothing new here.

Halliburton is such a mess it is just to much to respond to. The people responsible for that whole mess better end up spending many years in a prison cell with Bubba for this garbage.

Wellstone was a good man who, unlike so many others in government service, did not sell out his core beliefs for politics. I voted for him in both his Senate races and helped in his campaign to get re-elected for his second term. It was a shame that he, his wife and his daughter (and the airline pilots) had to die when they did. His voice in the wilderness has truly been missed on capitol hill these last few years.

The information is there, it is just that people do not wish to hear it let alone act on it. One person can change the world only if they can get enough other people to agree with their message. Gandhi did not change India by himself, nor did Martin Luther King change America by himself, the masses of people who believed in his message are the ones who made it happen.

And finally,

That is why drinking and tobacco are not yet, I wish, illegal.


This a free country. Choice is what freedom is all about. Making these substances illegal would be one of the greatest and most foolish mistakes we as a nation could make.

We already tried a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw alcohol and all it gave us is one of the most violent lawless periods in our history. It turned otherwise law abiding people into criminals with a stroke of a pen for no other reason than they wanted to have a drink after a hard days work. This amendment eroded an entire nations respect for law and order. We don't need to go here again, been there, done that.

Education is the way to go here and it is slowly working. Less people are drinking and driving because of the education and civil penalties involved and the same is happening with smoking. Do not start wishing your freedoms away because they are harder to get back than they are to lose.

Edited by Ronbo, 14 August 2005 - 07:31 PM.

There is no justice, there is just us.

#7 Bulldog

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 03:15 PM

I totally agree. We need to get back to caring for, and be all about the United States. We always hear just like we have in this thread, unhappy people, that don't have a plan. Heres one that should help the U.S. make ammends with the whole world and start taking care of thier own.

Keep in mind you can't have it both ways.



1.) The US will apologize to the world for
our "interference" in their affairs, past &present.
You know, Saddam, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic
and the rest of those 'good ole boys,' We will never "interfere"
again.

2.) We will withdraw our troops from all
over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea
and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We
would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes
in the fence.

3.) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get
their affairs together and leave. We'll give them
a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will
be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless
of who or where they are. France would welcome them.

4.) All future visitors will be thoroughly
checked and limited to 90 days unless given a
special permit. No one from a terrorist nation
would be allowed in. If you don't like it there,
change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would
never be available to anyone. We don't need any more
cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5.) No foreign "student s" over age 21. The
older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend
classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6.) The US will make a strong effort to
become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing
nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling
of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for
a while.

7.) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing
countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they
don't like it, we go some place else. They can go
somewhere else to sell their production. (About a
week of the wells filling up the storage sites
would be enough.)

8.) If there is a famine or other natural
catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere,"
They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds,
rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of
what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who
need it most get very little, if anything.

9.) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated
island some place. We don't need the spies and
fair weather friends here. Besides, the building
would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for
illegal aliens.

10.) All Americans must go to charm and
beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any
longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH.....learn it...or
LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan.

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying
'Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled
masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's
yelling, 'You want a piece of me?'"
bulldogsmall6ma.jpg


"And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." - Abe Lincoln

#8 chevyusa1

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 12:13 PM

Ok, since noone else said it I guess I will.
Countries like Iraq, Afghanistan etc. need to get with the program...ie: with technology the way it is now, how far could the human race go? This isn't biblical times, nor is it the stone age.....so why do countries like the afore mentioned still live in such conditions? All the hate in the world because you live on land that I want, or your beliefs are different then mine.
People of the world listen to what I say.........WE ARE ALL ONE RACE!!!!!! The HUMAN RACE!
I think the late Ronald Reagan had the right idea, he believed that the world should be united so that in the event that if an outside foe (aliens not of earth) could one day become a foe to EVERYONE on the planet and that we should be united in order to protect our planet. I agree. And that is why Reagan began the "Star Wars" program for planetary defense.
How silly is it to fight over land that may one day end up belonging to NOONE! We could destroy ourselves over petty conflicts or we could let some aliens come and just take the whole planet from us. Either way it would be bad. If the people of EARTH would unite, how far could we go in technology? It makes me mad that I can't visit some countries on this planet because I was born American. That's not my fault. I don't always agree with everything the U.S. does, but is it my fault? I think not. People should be free.....period. Free to have their own beliefs(without pursacution*), free to travel anywhere, free to explore different lifestyles and beliefs. If we, the human race, could just get along and live and let live how much better would the world be? I guess we'll never know because we are too busy fighting over our PETTY differences!

Edited by chevyusa1, 02 September 2005 - 12:15 PM.


#9 legoman786

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 08:57 PM

4.)...from a terrorist nation
would be allowed in...


Not all the people of the so-called "terrorist nations" are terrorists. The terrorists that were the cause of all the tragic events didn't have their heads screwed on right. They may have claimed that they were muslim, but true muslims saw right through them. We saw them for who they really were, Devil-worshipping satanics who didn't give a d**n for anybody.

5.) No foreign "student s" over age 21. The
older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend
classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.


Um... Why dont you look at the statistics and see how many people want to continue school? They may have to go back home because of family emergencies, or something too big to cope all alone, here in America. They may stay there for a few months or a few years, point is, if they dropped out of school to go back home for whatever reason and return after the age of 21 to continue, why deny them their entrance?

7.) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing
countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they
don't like it, we go some place else. They can go
somewhere else to sell their production. (About a
week of the wells filling up the storage sites
would be enough.)


Very true, this can reduce gas prices by ALOT. If they don't like it, fine. As you said, we go someplace else.

8.) If there is a famine or other natural
catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere,"
They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds,
rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of
what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who
need it most get very little, if anything.


This is true, too. Yet, there are alot of countires that do need supplies and food. Remember Somalia? Over 1000 Samalis dead, and nothing was accomplished. Because the government went in without telling anybody. Especially the UN. I wasn't old enough to remember if there was anything about it in the news, but I'm pretty sure it turned up quite a stir. Right now, Louisiana is just barely receiving food and medical supplies from the National Guard.

9.) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated
island some place. We don't need the spies and
fair weather friends here. Besides, the building
would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for
illegal aliens.


Very good point there, but we'd be spending alot of money that would be rather used for schools and hospitals.

10.) The Language we speak is ENGLISH.....learn it...or
LEAVE...


How would you feel if you went to Mexico or France? Or any other country that hates America, for that matter? Yes, their are political disputes of how America backstabbed them. But don't take it out on the people who want better lives for themselves and their children. Say, you were in deep poverty and the government wasn't doing crap. The next best solution was moving to America, not knowing anything about the country and not knowing the languge, by any means possible. Within a few years of good hard work, you've earned yourself a state-wide, prevailing business in the category, and your children are getting the best education possible. Are you really going to deport people for having a dream?

Oh, by the way, you all probably heard the term "jihad" alot in the news. Right? It DOES NOT mean just a holy war. It has two meanings, the holy war (the last one happened over 14 centuries ago), and an internal struggle within oneself to do good.

chevyusa1, alot of countries do not have the means to catch up with the technology. Look at Africa, many different political parties who will kill before the even think to unite. If only Democracy was in places thousands of years ago, we wouldn't have all this greed and jealousy and hate. If only, if only.

That's my 2 cents

Edited by legoman786, 02 September 2005 - 09:01 PM.

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.
- Rick Cook


#10 petekaz77

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 05:39 PM

No conversation is complete without the participants reading "The Iron Mountain Report" It was a report compiled by both government and public sector sponsered experts, by a unknown level in government (anyone who thinks the President is the highest form of government is being rather nieve) to examine war and peace. It is difficult going but it is worth it. Read what your government thinks about war, and it is nothing noble, nothing more that a "required social and economical pass time"

#11 BanditFlyer

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 01:42 PM

This post might be a little off topic, but...

I'm really starting to think that the only solution to Mideast violence would be a separatist( separate from the views of Hamas, PLO, etc.) segment of Islam peacefully protesting violence both against and By Muslims. Then they could honestly claim to be the religion of peace(at least the few who joined such a separatist movement). Any moron stupid enough to kill one of these separatists would be asking from trouble from the whole planet, and begging for his own cause to be defeated.

What do you think?

Suggestions/brainstorming is/are very welcome :thumbsup:

Edited by BanditFlyer, 08 November 2005 - 01:44 PM.


#12 Gary66

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 02:47 PM

Eric you're so right!
If this, or any other country really cared about "the people" we wouldn't have some folks living in the streets (50% are vets) while others have, not only one multi million dollar home, but several! And ball players wouldn't make obscene amounts of money, when police, fire, rescue, EMT, teachers, and most of us make a pittance.

Iraq is, and always was about the oil. Saddam, WMD, bio-weapons, terrorist, fighting for democracy are the newest excuses used to mullify the masses.
The Neocons (Bush and company) have said for many yrs that we have to secure that area of the world. http://zfacts.com/p/780.html

Our Republic has turned into an Oligarchy: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=oligarchy.
The corporations BUY both sides of the aisle, so there's no real difference between the DNC or RNC. Then after living off you and I for a few yrs, congressmen go to work for, guess who, the corp. Or they worked for the corp. before going into office. For instance, vice president D.Cheney, ran Halliburtan for several yrs.
The corp. get huge government contracts worth millions/billions of dollars. By the way....that's tax payers money!

Halliburton has the contract, among many others, to feed and water our troops in Iraq. And the charge per meal is $400 per meal, per troop. Yes $1200 a day per troop. Wow! And Hallibuton is under numerous investigations from bribes to over charging for, well, every thing. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6356265/.....http:....com/id/4163810
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0713-07.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/12/...ain549063.shtml

Now here's the real slap in the face. These same corp. that get all the sweet contracts, not only over charge, but are selling to the enemy as well!

HALLIBURTON EVADED U.S.SANCTIONS TO DO BUSINESS WITH IRAN: The Treasury Department reopened a 2001 inquiry that "centered on the legality of the business dealings between Iran and a Halliburton subsidiary incorporated in the Cayman Islands." Under Cheney's leadership, the company used loopholes that allowed "companies to get around the sanctions and conduct business through foreign subsidiaries as long as these entities are not run by Americans." [Source: Reuters, 2/11/04]
HALLIBURTON EVADED U.S.SANCTIONS AND DID BUSINESS WITH IRAQ: “According to oil industry executives and confidential United Nations records... Halliburton held stakes in two firms that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer of the Dallas-based company." [Source: Wash. Post, 6/23/01]

So Eric, don't apologize for asking questions or wondering why it's messed up. In fact we should be asking more questions and holding these people accountable.
.........dpb..........


Would a NEOCON be the opposite of a Dimocrat?

Posted Image

Edited by Gary66, 08 November 2005 - 03:58 PM.

Posted Image


#13 Salo

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 09:02 PM

I have a question. This whole "We have to save other people" theory, does not pan out for me.

I guess I will start with Iraq. First, gotta get Saddam. Why??? Too lazy to look for Osama for more than 2 months, I guess. So, since we are here...."ATTACK"!!!!! Now, we got him. And, next we turn him over to his cabinet for trial in an undisclosed location. Makes sence to me. huh.gif Well while we are here, let's go ahead and put someone in charge. Someone who will not back-talk us. Can't have that. Well now let's just stick around. Why??? We got Saddam, don't we? Hmmm. The public did not like the way the country was being ran so we take it over? What happens when enough people get tired of our "government"? Will someone liborate us? Will someone show us their way of doing things? I mean if we are sitting around having a gay ole time and I see something out of place, I will say something. IF IT IS MY PLACE. I would expect the same from anyone else toward me. If it is not your bussiness....keep it that way.
You get how I feel there.


1. First off, the reason were currently in Iraq is protection. We helped them once, and they wanted us to stay but we decided not to. And a "certain" country tried to come in and take the oil. So this time, were staying because they asked us to. Secondly, id like to inform you that our efforts of looking for osama are still underway. Just because the news doesnt report it doesnt mean it isnt happening. Weve been looking for osama this entire time. Now the reason we went after suddam was because not only did he have affiliations with al queda and over 100 other terrorist cell groups. So by catching suddam, not only did we shut down hundreds of terrorist cells and getting closer to osama and the backbone of the terrorist threat, weve just shut down an evil dictator who is responsible for over 3000 deaths alone. Now what harm is that? Now about the power thing, Iraqi elections are underway for electing a new president into power. And we wont have anything to do with it.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!

All the terrorist is the Middle East. People killing people for no reason at all. That is just wrong. Got to make it stop. But....piss on L.A., New York, Detroit, Philly, etc... where people get killed ever single day, FOR NO REASON AT ALL.


Interesting, when was the last terrorist attack in la, detroit, and philly. Now if your reffering to murder, rape, those kind of situations dont require the army's attention. This is strictly a police matter. And if you dont thik theyre doing a good job, why dont you contribute some money for their research into new criminal detections methoda or heck why not join the force?

NEXT!!!!!!!!!

The starving boys and girls, and homeless people in other countries. No offense, but, uhhh, how about the ones here? Oh. Piss on 'em, right? They don't need jobs. Send the jobs overseas. Or bring people here to work for less. Hey, I am all about making an extra buck, but damn..... That is messed up, no matter how you look at it.


You dont think were just pissing on the people here do you? Now that hurricane katrina has struck, more attention has been given to the homeless and starving than ever. Tell me, how many homeless shelters and feeding camps are there located around the US? Over 300,000 thats quite alot each with a capacity for over a few thousand people. I think were doing a dam fine job on the way to correcting this. Now, not only are we doing are best in the confines of our own country, were sending supply drops and food over there to help them. Not to mention the hundreds of non-government controlled programs over there to help.


Id also like to stay that you guys need to do some research, were not harvesting any oil from the middle east. Did you know that we get more oil from canada then we get from iraq or afghanistan?




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