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Can't get enough fan tech


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#1 synergy513

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:49 PM

Hi Everyone,


recently my Sony Vaio vgc-rb40g desktop was shutting down from overheating (mostly power supply, but a few times was cpu) , so i went shopping for a new cpu fan. had to get the 80mm chassis style case fan (thicker with higher max rpm) and it bolted up fine to the cpu heatsink, then, the new fan had three pin connector and molex adapter but mobo utilizes the 4 pin configuration to power the fans , so i used the extra molex off the psu harness, and voila, it worked, the fan revved up really high. Question is, should that cpu fan be blowing ONTO the heatsink or sucking heat AWAY from the heatsink? Science class taught me that the way to cool is by pulling heat away, aka sucking, versus blowing heat right back onto said item, so i think that led me astray and i might have installed it wrong. also, the case fan, should it be sucking heat away or blowing air right back in? also, i recently added a USB keyboard versus a pin connector type, would that extra USB item be overtaxing the psu causing more heat problems? one more thing, because the fans won't back down from max startup rpm when powered on, i can't even get to BIOS. ironically, if i disconnect the cpu fan, the BIOS will sometimes load up, but immediately the cpu gets upwards to 190 degrees f, so manual shut down is preeminent. is the CMOS battery a culprit in the scheme also? last i checked, the platform was keeping time pretty good. seems like us old timers miss the 12 mHZ days, we didn't have heat problems with PCs back then, now we have to watch out for these heat problems every other month.....Enjoy reading everyones posts.

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#2 ThunderZ

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:46 PM

......was shutting down from overheating (mostly power supply, but a few times was cpu)



If you know the PS was\is over heating then cleaned it should be checked to make sure it`s cooling fan(s) are working. If not then replace the PS ASAP.


......so i went shopping for a new cpu fan. had to get the 80mm chassis style case fan (thicker with higher max rpm)



Higher RPMs do not always equal a better fan. A fans efficiency is rated in CFMs. A lot of times all a higher RPM fan will get you is more noise.


the new fan had three pin connector and molex adapter but mobo utilizes the 4 pin configuration to power the fans , so i used the extra molex off the psu harness, and voila, it worked, the fan revved up really high.



The four pin connector on the mobo is for not only power to the fan it also controls the speed depending on temperature. I would definitely be looking into a proper 4 pin fan.



Question is, should that cpu fan be blowing ONTO the heatsink or sucking heat AWAY from the heatsink?




Rule of thumb. Fans on the front of a case draw air in. Side case fans generally do the same. CPU fans blow down onto the heat sink pushing the hot air out into the airflow of the case. Fans on the back of the case draw air out.

Regarding the USB keyboard. If the power supply is questionable then it is possible that the keyboard may be pushing it over the edge. Also on some machines getting into the BIOS with anything other then a PS2 keyboard can be a little tricky.

#3 synergy513

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 02:23 PM

thanks safe hex guy,


ok, will definitely clean up the original cpu fan and correctly reinstall using the 4 pin mobo connector and get myself a ps/2 keyboard and mouse, never knew usb peripherals could be a tax on psu like that, everybody just likes to use usb items because it is so easy for them to work. i think my psu is 370w, would a 420w do the trick? will follow up after i get the parameters in better shape.



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#4 ThunderZ

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 06:11 PM

If the original PSU is a 370W and you have not made any modifications to the PC. Example; additional memory, add-on graphics card, a PCI slot add-in card, second hard drive or optical drive, another 370 should be sufficient. A 420 would not hurt. The machine will only take what it needs.

The only reason I suggested a new PSU was due to the heat problem you mentioned with it. Check the fan(s) on the PSU as well.

If you are going to go ahead with a new PSU then at this point I would wait on the PS2 mouse and keyboard. Why spend more $$$ if unnecessary. Unless of course you have your heart set on some new toys.

I love my back-lite keyboard. :thumbsup:

Edited by ThunderZ, 18 September 2009 - 10:09 AM.


#5 synergy513

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 06:51 PM

Back again,


ok, plugged in the ps/2 mouse and keyboard, installed the original cpu fan correctly so that the 4 pin is plugged in and it is blowing down on the heatsink, put the cmos battery back in, powered it up, case fan and cpu fan are blowing top rpm and bios didn't beep or load, so i powered it down.

Moore's Law : 4d Graph in Progress


#6 ThunderZ

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 10:13 AM

I would first check all connections. Making sure you did not accidentally bump or knock anything loose while you were inside the case. This includes the memory, an all other cards as well as cables.

Are you sure you put the battery back in correctly?

#7 synergy513

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 02:06 PM

Hi again safe hex guy,


Yes, the cmos battery goes in with smaller diameter touching the connection, i did take note of that, having learned from my forrest gump routine, remember the guy in the movie who could run the football like a tasmanian devil, but wound up going the wrong way to start, and the whole crowd would scream, "wrong way forrest" ok, will check the sockets, because there was a span of time when i had to get inside to unplug the psu connector to the mobo to get the blinking green light too return to steady for power up. hate touching circuitry though, i think i remember the rule was make sure to be touching metal object simultaneously for ground, right?
i thought electro-magnetic static discharge was a thing of the past, because of the seriousness of it and how it rarely comes up as a topic in the threads with all the PC mechanics doing their thing

There is hope for the hot box though, i did get bios to load twice, when cpu fan was disconnected, if i cAN'T get this thing back running and have to get a new unit, i guess i will read through the threads following people who have tried to get their old HDD to execute the spin in a new PC.


Abe Froman, Chilli King of Cincinnati

Moore's Law : 4d Graph in Progress


#8 synergy513

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 05:26 PM

ooops, just had a stroke of a faint glimmer of an idea, i do have a usb floppy drive, could it be that i can load a bios onto that just to get things rolling into hdd? last i heard, bios is only 640 kb, where a floppy can hold 1.44 mb.. my cd drive is fried, it actually makes flatulence racket when initiating, so i disconnected it, also, upon further research, found the acronym POST, power-on self test, which is apparently the first thing bios executes....gonna paste the beep codes as i found them.........



Original IBM POST error codes
1 short beep - Normal POST - system is OK
2 short beeps - POST error - error code shown on screen
No beep - Power supply, system board problem, or disconnected speaker
Continuous beep - Power supply, system board, or keyboard problem
Repeating short beeps - Power supply or system board problem or keyboard
1 long, 1 short beep - System board problem
1 long, 2 short beeps - Display adapter problem (MDA, CGA)
1 long, 3 short beeps - Enhanced Graphics Adapter (EGA)
3 long beeps - 3270 keyboard card
POST AMI BIOS beep codes
1 - Memory refresh timer error
2 - Parity error in base memory (first 64 KiB block)
3 - Base memory read/write test error
4 - Mother board timer not operational
5 - Processor error
6 - 8042 Gate A20 test error (cannot switch to protected mode)
7 - General exception error (processor exception interrupt error)
8 - Display memory error (system video adapter)
9 - AMI BIOS ROM checksum error
10 - CMOS shutdown register read/write error
11 - Cache memory test failed
Reference: AMIBIOS8 Check Point and Beep Code List, version 1.71, last updated 7 June 2005
POST beep codes on CompTIA A+ Hardware Core exam
These POST beep codes are covered specifically on the CompTIA A+ Core Hardware Exam:

Beeps Meaning
Steady, short beeps Power supply may be bad
Long continuous beep tone Power supply bad or not plugged into motherboard correctly
Steady, long beeps Power supply bad
No beep Power supply bad, system not plugged in, or power not turned on
No beep If everything seems to be functioning correctly there may be a problem with the 'beeper' itself.
One long, two short beeps Video card failure

IBM POST diagnostic code descriptions
100 to 199 - System boards
200 to 299 - Memory
300 to 399 - Keyboard
400 to 499 - Monochrome display
500 to 599 - Color/graphics display
600 to 699 - Floppy-disk drive or adapter
700 to 799 - Math coprocessor
900 to 999 - Parallel printer port
1000 to 1099 - Alternate printer adapter
1100 to 1299 - Asynchronous communication device, adapter, or port
1300 to 1399 - Game port
1400 to 1499 - Color/graphics printer
1500 to 1599 - Synchronous communication device, adapter, or port
1700 to 1799 - Hard drive and/or adapter
1800 to 1899 - Expansion unit (XT)
2000 to 2199 - Bisynchronous communication adapter
2400 to 2599 - EGA system-board video (MCA)
3000 to 3199 - LAN adapter
4800 to 4999 - Internal modem
7000 to 7099 - Phoenix BIOS chips
7300 to 7399 - 3.5-inch disk drive
8900 to 8999 - MIDI adapter
11200 to 11299 - SCSI adapter
21000 to 21099 - SCSI fixed disk and controller
21500 to 21599 - SCSI CD-ROM system





thought i would share, when my cpu did meltdown one time, the bios did the long beep short beep thing, like in the list



Hope this helps

Moore's Law : 4d Graph in Progress


#9 ThunderZ

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 06:13 PM

Ok. The CD rom is fried. You have disconnected it so it is out of the equation.

Are you getting any BIOS beep codes at all?

In all likely hood the floppy will do you no good unless you want to attempt to re-flash the BIOS. Doubt this will do any good. I think it is a matter of the PC running to hot for to long.

The fact it posts without the processor fan connected leads me to wonder about your last attempt with an improperly connected fan.
But after doing some searching for a proper 4 pin replacement fan. I am afraid you will only find them by purchasing an aftermarket heat sink\fan combo or by contacting Sony.

It may be time to consider a new machine. Many places will sell just the tower. Allowing you to continue using your current monitor and save some $$.

Your data can fairly easily saved from your old hard drive in a number of ways should you decide to get a new machine.

#10 synergy513

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:57 AM

thanks for the folllow up,


No bios beep codes at all, just cpu fan and case fan blowing top rpm on power up, with the psu fan blowing up tempo also, the power indicator light by psu on outside is lit steady, mobo green light is lit up steady, optical drives open up, and then no beeps or bios, think i will first try a 430w psu at with 2 week return policy so maybe i can get enough extra wattage to power one of those backlit keyboards,
at this point if i can recover the POS with a new PSU, then Einsteins thoery of insanity will prove correct, don't do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

I think your right, psu overheated one time too many and prolly lost potency each time an occurence happened, like over heat and power outage, and the psu fan was always where the heat was when i would feel the back of the machine.



Is Corsair the best bang for the buck?

wil follow up after installing new psu.......

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#11 ThunderZ

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 12:20 PM

A PS can show all the signs that it should be running well...but it is`t.

Depending on the design\quality of the PS there are what are called "rails". Each one is responsible for carrying the proper power to a combination of devices. When a PS starts going bad it may continue to deliver enough to perform some functions as you have noted. But not enough for all functions as would seem to be happening in your case.

Corsair is a recognized name in the industry. Have never used any of their products myself.

I have heard some people swear by them, while others have swore at them. Sorry, not much help.

#12 synergy513

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 01:08 PM

turns out the existing oem psu is 305w, have read folks say don't vary more than 50 watts up or down,while more learned folk say that running 1000w in a 200w machine won't matter, the machine will just take what it needs and what wattage remains is just for the taking when needed, think the 430w might be the ticket though...might check into the 500w if $$ isn't much different.


Thanks for all the inside info, feels like i might be getting more close to solving this

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#13 ThunderZ

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 01:35 PM

Got my fingers crossed for you. Let us know.

#14 synergy513

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 06:04 PM

Hi safe hex guy,

Thanks so much for the help, it was the psu, my bestec 300w was just plain wore out, my new thermaltake 430w is running and everything boots up fine, except the cmos needed to be reset with date/time, hopefully this thread can be a lesson to other desktop users about the perils of heat and usb and installing new fans the right way. thanks again,


Abe Froman, the Chilli King of Cincinnati

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#15 ThunderZ

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 06:18 PM

You are very :thumbsup:

Glad all is well once again in the land of Cinci.




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