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Name one government program that works


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#1 Layback Bear

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 09:21 AM

Can any body think of/ name any government health program that isn't broke or on the way there.MEDICARE, broke. MEDICADE broke. V.A. hospitals are so bad the previous President Bush fired the Admiral who was in charge. Now the president wants to rush a bill through to nationalize health care that won't take affect until 2013. The only reason I can think off is to get it passed before any body can read it. Kind of like the stimulus package got passed before any body could read it before voting on it. By the way it isn't working. The stimulus that is. Well it's kind of working. It put this nation 3 TRILLION in debt in 60 days. George Bush only got us in debt a little over 1/2 TRILLION in 8 years. All the news media is clapping for the president for getting us in debt 6 time farther and a bunch faster the George Bush did. The TRILLIONS of dollars a government run health system would put this nation farther in debt can't be figured.
P/S A trillion dollars is 1000 billions. A billion is 1000 millions. :thumbsup:

Edited by Layback Bear, 26 July 2009 - 09:27 AM.


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#2 woodyblade

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 12:17 PM

Just to correct something here;

The USA has national debt which amounts to about $11.6 trillion as of now, not because of Obama, because of past Presidents most notably George W Bush who managed to double US national debt in the 8 years he was President from $5.5 trillion in 2000 to just over $11 trillion at the end of 2008.
Some projections/estimates from analysts think by the end of his current 4 year Presidency, the US National Debt will reach something around $16-17 trillion, about a $5-6 trillion increase, which would mean the debt level matchs the whole GDP of the US, but you have to take into account the massive levels of interest payments needed to maintain that current $11 trillion debt.

Just to give you an idea of the what I mean by interest payments, say hypothetically the interest rate on all US Treasury Bonds averages 5% this means it would cost 5% of the total of all bonds on average every 6 months, so the US Government would be paying $550 billion every 6 months just to maintain that debt, meaning Interest payments alone cost $1.1 trillion a year.

He also inherited a $1.4 trillion deficit from Bush at the end of 2008, this deficit at the end of 2007 was $500 billion, an increase of $900 billion in Bushs' last year.

So far Obama has allocated just under $800 billion in a program called TARP to aid US financial companies by buying up effectively the toxic debt from them i.e. mortgages amongst other financial obligations the companies have like derivatives (The main cause for Lehmann Brothers collapsing, it provided loads of derivatives including the now dreaded CDS's, Credit Default Swaps) securities and insurance, only half of this money has been applied for and quite a bit has been paid back now by about 6 companies a few weeks back.
It is also being used to aid other sectors of the US Economy, plus the TARP.

Also another $400 billion was allocated for homeowners, which I assume was to aid with mortgages to try and stimulate the housing market.

The budget he set out doesn't count but $3.4 trillion was the budget he set out an increase of $300 billion from the 2008 budget, the main reason for the increase I assume would be to cover the interest debt payments.

So really US Debt has not increased by $3 trillion more like $600 billion but that will decrease once all repayments have been made under the TARP program.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the original question, I don't know if you were asking specifically about the US Government or just any government in the World, but you probably know of the UK's NHS, our Health System pretty much works very well, costs 20% of our Governments Budget every year (Roughly a 500 billion Budget, NHS has it's budget from that of about 100 billion currently) but is well worth it when the costs are spread out between everyone who works in the country, I had a Bone Graft operation about 2 years ago it would have cost 20,000 anywhere else in the World without a similar health system, but I got it for free "technically", My Dad pays about 3000 a year in National Insurance which pays mainly for the NHS, so basically about 6 years in National Insurance payments went for my operation, my Brother also recently had his appendix out which would have cost something around 6000 but again got it free "technically".

So you like many other Americans by the sounds of it (Unless I'm wrong) might not think much of Obama pushing the Healthcare reforms which are going to cost a lot but trust me it is well worth it in the long run, you'll not get any big unexpected costs for operations, it might cost a tiny percentage more in your taxes yearly but as I said it is worth it.

#3 Layback Bear

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 03:52 PM

From what I hear over here about you health care system over there it's not that great. It just might be our media.

#4 woodyblade

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 05:56 PM

I think it is just the Media, our Media is critical of the NHS as well which distorts the perceptions to everyone else, most people who have been in the NHS Hospitals have between a 87-92% satisfaction rate according to surveys as well as a 70% satisfaction rate with the A&E, but people who don't use the service are more critical with 51-67% thinking the NHS provides a good service, more likely because they are paying out money when they aren't using it, but I guess it's a small price to pay when you know you can get free healthcare when you need it, although you do have to pay for prescriptions from GP's but I think it is subsidised, survey figures quoted from here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Heal...nd%29#Criticism

There is certainly going to be a lot of criticism about anything, nothing is perfect that is setup by a Government (apart from Taxes :thumbsup: :flowers:), but a high percentage of the population think it is a good service, you can keep reading the Criticisms in that Wiki Link I gave you, most of it is true but some of it is exaggerated in my opinion.

#5 1002 Richard S

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:55 AM

Just to chip in, the UK's National Health Service has also been a victim of its own success. There are now 'health migrants' - people coming to the UK to get free treatments using forged ID documents to conceal the fact that they're not entitled to the free services of the NHS. This increases the waiting list times for everyone.
Also, as medical advances create treatments that were previously unavailable, more and more people can be treated. On top of this, many new procedures and medicines are very expensive thus putting a greater strain on the NHS budget.

I'm not knocking the NHS - I'm one of it's supporters. I was a nurse, my dad was a surgeon, my mum was a nurse and my sister still is. At one time there were 20 members of my family working in the NHS.

The NHS is paid for out of taxes and I think it's extremely good value for money.

#6 groovicus

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:13 AM

Define 'works'.

#7 Guest_Abacus 7_*

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:19 AM

:thumbsup:

Can I Try?

In Australia we have a Nationial System called Medicare.

I had a serious Problem, last Thursday, whereby my Blood had too high of a Carbon Dioxide Level in it and I had serious Respiriratory Problems. I was actually totally freaked out, just from not being able to access Oxygen, through breathing, even with my normal Medical Aids. It was quite unusual, but still very serious..

Long and the short of it? I could not breathe, at my House and was totally freaking out, big time. I asked my wife to ring an Ambulance. Each step towards the Hospital became worse as the Stress built up. Once at the Hospital I was going in between real time and some where else. (Just understand we worked out how this went later?)

At the Hospital, I was freaking out, bescause I could not Breathe. The Doctor, (found out later, had arranged for me to be Treated on the Oxygen Machine.) was trying to calm me down.

Just to get this into perspestive? There was no big Money involved. That Doctor just wanted to save my Life.

I was at that stage fighting to just draw a Breath of Oxygen, seriously. Just like a Human, drowning on Land.

I was taken to the Oxygen Machine, placed on it, after I fought a bit, because I was freaked out.

Next Morning.

The Nurse asked how I felt?

My Honest Answer was.

"That was a Healling Sleep I just had, Mate."

The Doctor came along later and asked how I felt? My answer was, "Thanks for saving my Life."

Cost for that and the rest of it to get me Home again?

Nil!

Zinch!

Australia can do that? But not Americica?

You Blokes amaze me?

:flowers:

#8 woodyblade

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:57 AM

1002 Richard S highlighted the main flaws to the NHS, the "Health Migrants" as they are termed are mentioned in the Wiki Article I linked above, they cost the NHS about 30 million, so not absolutely massive to a 100 billion budget but I guess it's there when it could be used somewhere else.

The waiting lists aren't the best, but all major operations are done very quickly, it's just those with the minor operations who are left to wait a bit.

And yeah the new procedures and drugs are expensive and mostly the NHS doesn't buy them so it keeps within budget, which has lead to a few individual cases where people haven't got the treatment they wanted or needed, which I assume leads to the 87-92% satisfaction rate of people who have been in the Hospitals.

As for defining 'works' I'm not sure what Groovicus is on about?, the NHS works very well mainly as I've said just the odd few shortfalls that I'm sure they are aiming to or trying to fix.

Another advantage is agreements between countries that allow other nationalities to use our NHS within certain limits specified, the ones I do know of is the EU agreement which allows us to get mainly free healthcare abroad or subsidised in EU countries as well as European Citizens here (Although I'd assume it is mainly Western European Countries that most treatments are free), so now we get a EU card which identifies where we come from so we can get healthcare in other EU countries.
Just as an example I was in Spain with my family a couple of years ago and my Mum needed some injections for a weird rash she came out in, she got it free and just had to sign a form so they (the clinic there) could claim the money back from the NHS here.
I'm sure I've read somewhere a similar agreement is in place between the UK and Australia as well.

I do wonder whats your opinion Groovicus as well as other Americans on here? You've heard mine and Abacus experiences and the advantages of having it, but would you be happy paying a bit more tax to have it instead of paying insurance and whatever else you have to pay now.

Edited by woodyblade, 27 July 2009 - 10:00 AM.


#9 Guest_Abacus 7_*

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:32 AM

:thumbsup:

Since coming home from Hospital, my Kids are on my side.

:flowers:

#10 groovicus

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 11:33 AM

@woodyblade, the title of this thread is " Name one government program that works". I don't know what that means to Layback Bear, so I figured I would try to figure out before trying to answer the question. I'm a computer scientist. I try not to infer anything until the specifications are clear. :thumbsup:

#11 JohnWho

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 03:42 PM

I agree - "Name one government program that works" could use some 'splainin'.


Just off the top, though, I'd say the government run medical care program for the Congressmen seems to be working.

:thumbsup:


I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!


#12 Vaerli

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 07:07 PM

Agreed.

Of course that doesn't count as it's a employment benefit, not a nationwide thing.

Still, the US is probably going to end up collapsing in its own debt in the next ten years. More debt isn't going to help dispel the debt we already have.

"Cost for that and the rest of it to get me Home again? Nil"

What percentage of your income you pay to the government as tax? I doubt its free, you've just already paid for it, and the government is now your insurance company.


A quick side question- Are quotes completely disabled in this section of the forums?

Edited by Vaerli, 27 July 2009 - 07:08 PM.

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#13 groovicus

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:47 PM

@Vaerli: Yes, quotes are disabled because too many people quoted everything that was said before, and it made it really hard to have a good flow of conversation. In my opinion, our members are smart enough to form proper responses to each other using (mostly) proper grammar.

#14 1002 Richard S

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:23 AM

The NHS budget for 2010 is 110,000,000,000 (NB, by comparison, in 1997 it was 35,000,000,000).
The number of employed individuals in the UK as of June 2009 is approx 29,110,000.
That means the NHS costs each working man and woman 3,779 every year on average.Which is about $6250.

#15 DaChew

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:58 AM

From these graphs it's pretty obvious the USA is doing something wrong compared to the rest of the developed nations.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934744.html

Where's all the money going?

http://www.wellsphere.com/genetics-article...-dach-md/559334
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