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A hight proformance Computor for Slide Shows,video playing,ETC


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#1 sonicjet

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 06:29 AM

I want to build my Church a new computer that will last a lifetime,Performance wise,Here are my selections:
Motherboard:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...&CatId=2320
CPU:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/se...o=3476411\
RAM:
2 of these:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...&CatId=1872

I have yet to Figure out what Power supply I will get,Its not for gaming so I won't need anything extreme,just an simple cheap setup,Also I would like a recommendation for a good cheap case (<60$) equipped with big Quiet fans,the case will be hidden so extreme looks will not bother me,(except for like artwork)
We already have the Video card,A Nvidia 5500GTX PCI(for the Required dual video output)

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#2 DeathStalker

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 02:05 PM

Wow. First off NO computer will "last a lifetime." Your link to the CPU is broken so I have no clue as to what it is other than an AMD . Why Tiger direct? Newegg is usually cheaper. (and as I look, they have the exact same price as tiger direct on your Mobo lol).

I'm having a really tough time finding info on your Video card. The only google hits I find are for Turkish sites........ You said 5500 GTX right? Is this a 6 or 7 year old GPU with 256mb's of RAM? Did you mean Geforce FX 5500 If so, I would seriously suggest an upgrade. This was a bad card when it was released around 2002 and cost nVidia a ton of market share. The onboard video that is on the MoBo you linked would be better. Two outputs is not uncommon and I found atn least 11 cards at Newegg between $50-$75.

Don't scrimp on your power supply. No you don't need 10,000 watts of screaming power, but neither do you want something like this. I don't know what your total budget is, so it's hard to suggest something, but here is a good 400 watt one.

There is nothing wrong per say with the RAM you spec'ed, it's just that you can get the 4GB's cheaper by getting paired sets (2X2GB) rather than getting each 2GB stick separately. Browse here and you will see several on the first page (and there are 10 pages of choices lol) that are less than the $60 that 2 of the ones you spec'ed would be. Use the savings on the PSU or a better GPU.

You haven't mentioned a HDD or optical drives. Both are necessary. I've had good luck with Lite on and LG. You can pick from many here from around $20.00 and up.

For your Hard drive? Most people feel Western Digital is one of the most reliable brands, mixed opinions about Seagate, Hitachi, and Samsung, with IBM and Maxtor at the bottom, but this is largely situational. I would suggest at least 500 GB's.

What OS are you going to use?

Edited by DeathStalker, 08 July 2009 - 02:07 PM.


#3 sonicjet

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 05:01 PM

Ha thanks,I was in a real rush this morning,so the post was not exactly complete when I looked at the clock:
  • The cpu was the AMD Phenom II quad at 2.3 GHz
  • The last a lifetime is in performance,I don't want to buy them a computer that can't run the next OS after Windows 7(Yes I am a Win 7 beta/RC1,tester,32 bit and 64 bit)
  • My total budget is about 400$,no monitor,keyboard,or mouse.
  • Paired ram,cool
  • For an HDD,I need someting Quiet,crazy fast,capacity is not an issue,Perhaps an SSD,and an simple DVD drive,so DVD's can be played with the right software.
  • It will run Vista X64,then windows 7 X64,this computers performance will be the one thing that will keep them from haveing to buy a new one for a long time.
By the way thanks.


Edit: Edited to remove unnecessary quote. ~tg

#4 hamluis

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 05:50 PM

Just a note: You do realize that there really aren't very many apps that take advantage of 64-bit programming...and I see no reason why it should change since it hasn't changed a great deal in the last 5 years or so (IMO).

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:2tU_id...=clnk&gl=us

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

As I understand it (I am imperfect so I don't claim to understand accurately), the advantage of 64-bit compared to 32-bit lies in RAM utilization. I seriously doubt if an app written for 32-bit systems...runs better on a 64-bit system.

I don't think a lot of persons understand this in the same way that I do, so take it all with large grains of salt.

Louis

#5 sonicjet

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 08:14 PM

Well I have 2 computers in the house,one is:
Lenovo
AMD Athlon 64 X2
1.5GB ram
Nvidia Geforce 6100 chipset
WD140 IDE drive
Windows 7 RC1 64 bit

The other is:
HP
2.2GHz C2D
3GB ram
ASUS leonite 2 chipset
Nvidia Geforce 8300GS
Hitachi 500GB Sata Drive
Windows 7 RC1 32 bit

Now,make a random guess which system runs significantly faster,both have the same data on the HDD,just the AMD has the 64 bit version of win 7,its not the one you think,its the lenovo.


Edit: Edited to remove unnecessary quote. ~tg

#6 hamluis

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 08:27 PM

Point made (I have 32-bit Win 7 RC1 installed).

I find that data files on a system are not germane to system functionality...more often, it's the applications that are loaded and those which initiate at startup unnecessarily...that turn into "system killers."

Louis

#7 DeathStalker

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 09:01 PM

I've been too lazy to install the WIn7 RC lol.

$400 will buy you a good computer that will do what you want for a long while (well the parts you need anyway). I suggest you check this guide out. The guy that wrote it is not particular to a brand, just the one that gives the best performance per dollar at the time he writes his guide. This one is his 4th I think, and he updates them until it is just better to rewrite the thing lol. I wish I had "known" him before I built this rig, I certainly would have saved a ton of money and had an equally performing computer. Anyway, I think you will find somethings in there that will surprise you (in a good way) and you will see that $400 goes a lot further than you think.

I forgot to mention cases in my last post. I won't recommend one because I've only built this one computer and used this one case. I have an ANTEC 900, the original one, not the newer one. It's a pretty good case with great cooling, but it's kind of cramped for building. I bought it because the day I walked into Fry's to look, it was on sale for $59.00. I don't know why. Maybe that particular store bought too many of them by mistake or something, but it was a $139 case at the time for $59 and it blew the other cases in that price range ($59) out of the water. So MY suggestion is the day you decide to order your parts or case, go to a fry's, or whatever big box store store that has decently priced computer parts that is near you, (if any lol) and see if they have something good on sale for some wickedly low, unadvertised price. If so, buy it. if not then go ahead and order whatever you were going to order in the first place.

As for a 64 bit system? One thing that WILL "future proof" your computer is RAM. You need the 64 bit system you use over 3.5 GB's of RAM (as I'm sure you know). Also, SOMEONE is going to want a video of this service or that service because they were at such and such's house and THEIR church had DVD's of THEIR services so why can't we........ you known the drill. Every video editing program I know of renders faster on a 64 bit system than a 32 bit system, some as much as 250% faster. Chances are that if you are the poor sap who got tapped to upgrade the computer, you will be the poor sap in charge of rendering editing the video lol. Take it from me (I tape and edit for my buddies church), you will appreciate that time savings.............. you'll also buy two more sticks or RAAM and bump that baby up to 8GB's lol.

#8 sonicjet

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 10:29 PM

Point made (I have 32-bit Win 7 RC1 installed).

I find that data files on a system are not germane to system functionality...more often, it's the applications that are loaded and those which initiate at startup unnecessarily...that turn into "system killers."

Louis


By same data,I meant that the hard drive's programs and files on each are nearly Identical.
One big thing may be the Fact that my browser is Apple's Safari 3 for windows,way better than FF and IE,and may take advantage of 64 bit processing.

I've been too lazy to install the WIn7 RC lol.

$400 will buy you a good computer that will do what you want for a long while (well the parts you need anyway). I suggest you check this guide out. The guy that wrote it is not particular to a brand, just the one that gives the best performance per dollar at the time he writes his guide. This one is his 4th I think, and he updates them until it is just better to rewrite the thing lol. I wish I had "known" him before I built this rig, I certainly would have saved a ton of money and had an equally performing computer. Anyway, I think you will find somethings in there that will surprise you (in a good way) and you will see that $400 goes a lot further than you think.

I forgot to mention cases in my last post. I won't recommend one because I've only built this one computer and used this one case. I have an ANTEC 900, the original one, not the newer one. It's a pretty good case with great cooling, but it's kind of cramped for building. I bought it because the day I walked into Fry's to look, it was on sale for $59.00. I don't know why. Maybe that particular store bought too many of them by mistake or something, but it was a $139 case at the time for $59 and it blew the other cases in that price range ($59) out of the water. So MY suggestion is the day you decide to order your parts or case, go to a fry's, or whatever big box store store that has decently priced computer parts that is near you, (if any lol) and see if they have something good on sale for some wickedly low, unadvertised price. If so, buy it. if not then go ahead and order whatever you were going to order in the first place.

As for a 64 bit system? One thing that WILL "future proof" your computer is RAM. You need the 64 bit system you use over 3.5 GB's of RAM (as I'm sure you know). Also, SOMEONE is going to want a video of this service or that service because they were at such and such's house and THEIR church had DVD's of THEIR services so why can't we........ you known the drill. Every video editing program I know of renders faster on a 64 bit system than a 32 bit system, some as much as 250% faster. Chances are that if you are the poor sap who got tapped to upgrade the computer, you will be the poor sap in charge of rendering editing the video lol. Take it from me (I tape and edit for my buddies church), you will appreciate that time savings.............. you'll also buy two more sticks or RAAM and bump that baby up to 8GB's lol.


Hey thanks for the link,the computer is for the youth group room,so more extreme looks and huge fans/leds is fine,the room is being remodeled with a hip look,so it might as well be part of the remodel,for the CPU hows this,Newegg has a Steal errr deal on this CPU+ MOBO combo :http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.211758
Also hows about this ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820104098
We may be recording services soon too so that will be great!
This case(Good reveiws,comes with PSU,looks hip,side fan)http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811148030
This HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822148395
This DVD drive:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106291

Edited by sonicjet, 08 July 2009 - 10:40 PM.


#9 DJBPace07

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:01 AM

With 64-bit you not only have access to more RAM, but also faster instruction sets. A program designed for 64-bit will run faster, but most programs that do use 64-bit natively are often games and multimedia editing programs. Below are my suggestions.

Case: Rosewill R220-P-BK Black 0.5mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - You don't need a huge case as you're not getting an enormous graphics card pumping out loads of heat. Unless you plan on moving the case a great deal, this one will do and is cheap. Remember, all a case is designed to do is house components. I do not suggest getting a case with a PSU built-in as the PSU's are rarely any good. $24

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - This motherboard will handle all of AMD's AM3 processors. I suggest staying away from micro-ATX boards (like the one in the combo) as they are small and can sometimes have heat issues. Socket AM2+ motherboards and CPU's are being replaced with AM3 so this board will position you well for future upgrades. $79

CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 250 Regor 3.0GHz - Yes, there are still Athlon's around, only now they are redesigned for AM3. The Phenom II X2 550 is a superior CPU to this, with L3 cache and a higher clock speed, but is also about $25 more. The Phenom II name refers to the CPU itself with two, one, or no cores disabled. The Athlon II's have a native dual core design with no deactivated cores and is more energy efficient. For what you're using the computer for, a quad core will be overkill. $87

RAM: Crucial 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 - AM3 boards require DDR3 memory. This memory is about $10 more than its DDR2 counterpart. $58

Video Card: SAPPHIRE 100253DDR3L Radeon HD 4650 - Since this computer will not be used for high-end gaming, this card will work. It has several ports on it, even HDMI, for multiple displays. It also has a very low power requirement. $50

Power Supply: COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power Plus RS-460-PMSR-A3 460W - A simple PSU is all you need for a computer like this. $40

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD5000AADS 500GB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive - Plenty of space for a reasonable price, unlike SSD's. $58

Optical Drive: LITE-ON 24X CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model iHAS324-08 - It will burn and read most optical media. $27

Total Cost: $426

Edited by DJBPace07, 09 July 2009 - 12:05 AM.

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#10 DeathStalker

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:47 AM

sonicjet: I'd argue with Pace about as as soon as I would argue with Carbon (the guy who wrote that tutorial) lol. They both seem to have forgotten more about hardware than I have learned. But..............

DJBPACE07: He's going to be editing video's. That IS one of the few operations which will use all 4 cores. Granted I need all 4 because I do my videos in High Def and my Q9450 is the minimum suggested for the program I use at 2.66 GHz. How will that Athlon do for rendering? Since they won't be rendering in HDD (or Bluray, whatever it's called now lol), will that be more than enough for them? That is my only concern.

sonicjet (again): Other than my concern mentioned above, his suggested build looks great depending on his answer. If that processor will render the videos adequately then it's good to go. If ya'll ever get to a point where you want to do videos in High def, you will need a high def burner, (which I see have dropped $100 since I got mine last year darn it,) and a camera that records in high def (I'm using a Canon XH A1 that some kind soul donated). Adding a quad at that point wont' really add significantly to the price, and that motherboard will handle it. The money you are saving right now with his build over the combo deal will easily cover the cost of his suggested video card, and quite frankly, that Geforce FX5500 sucks.

One last point in his favor. That combo deal could be sold out by the time you order it, even if you order it tomorrow, (well today I guess looking at the time lol) and that price will go with it. The stuff he spec'ed will either stay static or go down in price over time.

#11 sonicjet

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 06:11 AM

Just one little thing,the setup I was looking at...hmmm,its just 20$ more,thats all,overkill is my friend,plus that motherboard has a built in GeForce 8300GS(Of which I just noticed has 2 ports),Of which another computer in my house has and I am very satisfied with it's capabilities,HD looks great on it.
We will not be burning HD disks,mostly video encoding(fully requires the quad core),and dvd Burning,


Edit: Edited to remove unnecessary quote. ~tg

#12 DeathStalker

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 01:17 PM

I didn't notice the integrated video. But now that I have.......... I just read a review on the 8300 and it states that even though there are two HD outputs (DVi and HDMI) you can only use one at a time, so there goes that. I found another MoBo for 89.00 here. It fits the bill for what Pace said about being ATX and not Micro, and it fits your bill for a dual output and onboard graphics. This one uses the 780G chipset which gets good reviews. That puts you $30 over the combo deal. It is however DDR2 so you would save 10-20 bucks on the RAM.

Looks like the DVD you want is sold out for now but there's a comparable LG for a buck or so cheaper here.

Are we still in budget and on target for what you want? Pace may know of a different MoBo w/ integrated video that is better, but the one I linked looked pretty good to me. But what do I know, i bought a stupid nVidia 790iUltra lol for my rig. Of course I started catching back up with hardware AFTER I built mine not before like I should have..............

#13 DJBPace07

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 03:13 PM

I advise against integrated video, some programs, such as video editing tools, utilize the GPU for processing and a dedicated card would offer better performance. This is why I got a motherboard without integrated video. Only a few rendering programs fully utilize four cores, most use two. The exception to this is applications encoding high definition video, they are designed for multicore. Quad cores will always cost more, but the AM3 board has excellent upgrade potential. You can swap out the dual for a triple or quad core CPU like the AMD Phenom II X4 810 2.6GHz or the AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz. I looked up rendering performance for the Athlon II online. In a DivX encoding test, the Athlon is about four seconds slower than a Phenom II 550 and on par with the E5300. In an H.264 encoding test, it is on par with the E7500. In a Windows Media 9 encoding test, it is a little slower than an E7500 but faster than an E6300. The Phenom II X2 outperforms the Athlon II in all the tests, slightly. Of course, the quads will outperform in rendering tests if the application supports four cores. There are some AM3 motherboards that have integrated video, but they are more expensive. The ECS BLACK SERIES A790GXM-AD3 AM3 AMD 790GX and the ASRock M3A780GXH/128M AM3 AMD 780G are two motherboards that do.

Resources
Guru3D - Athlon II X2 250 and Phenom II X2 550 BE review
Anandtech - The Athlon II X2 & Phenom II X2: 45nm Dual-Core from AMD

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#14 sonicjet

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 07:13 PM

Posted Image
There is my final list,its a mix of my wanted specs in the PC with DJBpace07's recommendations.
That MOBO deal with that CPU is just 20$ more than my last selection for a newer,faster CPU and DDR3,thanks.



Yes that is Grooveshark in the backgrounds of my old Windows 7 x64 lenovo,Newsboys-thrive is a great song,the remix is better!

Edited by sonicjet, 09 July 2009 - 08:38 PM.


#15 DeathStalker

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 11:09 PM

Man I wish we could talk you out of that case with the brandX timebomb, i mean power supply..............

EDIT: Man, I missed that combo deal for you. That was a good find by Pace.

Edited by DeathStalker, 09 July 2009 - 11:11 PM.





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