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Teenagers and Keyloggers


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#16 Lanscader

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 12:22 PM

Yanowhiz and I are the same age, and I must agree with him about the chat rooms. I saw a listing of chat rooms somewhere, and I didn't even need to go in to see that is was bad. About the keylogger, I think those should only be used if the parents have a reason not to trust their child with the internet. Trust should be the first line of defense against predators and adult content, and if that fails, keyloggers are perfectly acceptable. I remember my parents would lecture me almost every time I was online a couple years ago about what not to do, and I think that works. I think that if most children hear the same advice and warnings from a parent a couple times (in a calm, non-threatening voice) they will be more likley to listen and follow the advice. Not being a parent myself, or having much experience with children, that is only what I gather from my own experiences.

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#17 yano

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 01:05 AM

Yanowhiz and I are the same age, and I must agree with him about the chat rooms. I saw a listing of chat rooms somewhere, and I didn't even need to go in to see that is was bad. About the keylogger, I think those should only be used if the parents have a reason not to trust their child with the internet. Trust should be the first line of defense against predators and adult content, and if that fails, keyloggers are perfectly acceptable. I remember my parents would lecture me almost every time I was online a couple years ago about what not to do, and I think that works. I think that if most children hear the same advice and warnings from a parent a couple times (in a calm, non-threatening voice) they will be more likley to listen and follow the advice. Not being a parent myself, or having much experience with children, that is only what I gather from my own experiences.

I agree too. Non-threatening calm voices always works. None of this screaming bleep. I use to hear a lot of it, and it didn't really help, regardless if it were about the computer or not.

However the one thing I think parents should do is when trying to get the truth out of the kid, don't lie and say... I know where you have been, so just tell us why, when in reality you don't know where they have been.

Lies don't make the truth any easier to get to.

#18 jgweed

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 01:14 AM

Parenting is very hard, continous work, and involves a lot of communication especially as children grow into adulthood. I would only hope parents will take to heart both Yanowhiz's and Lanscader's comments.
Regards,
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#19 lulabelle

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 11:44 AM

I am a mother of a 15 year old daughter who has been in trouble at school recently and I am concerned that she will get into further trouble outside school.

We have always trusted her (and her older sister) absolutely but recently she has abused our trust over a number of very important issues and it is very difficult to trust someone who has been lying on the monumental scale we discover she has been doing. This has got me to worrying - sleepless nights of worrying.

Since Christmas she has had a computer in her room; we have always warned her to be very careful when surfing and to not chat with people she does not know. We have not installed any controls (we're not on AOL). But she has turned from a little girl to an obstreperous and secretive teenager - a different person altogether. She has quite a few hotmail accounts, I think, and uses MSN all the time. I do not have the passwords to any of these accounts.

I am frantic with worry that the behaviour we have seen recently will spiral out of control. Can anyone recommend a program I can install on her computer to help me keep a check on her???? Any suggestions at all?? I don't want to remove the internet connection ( she uses it for school quite a bit and to listen to music all the time) but I am frantic - and I feel the situation is getting more and more desperate. Of course I know the computer use is only part of a bigger problem but an ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

#20 deerslayer

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 12:21 PM

Yanowhiz and I are the same age, and I must agree with him about the chat rooms. I saw a listing of chat rooms somewhere, and I didn't even need to go in to see that is was bad. About the keylogger, I think those should only be used if the parents have a reason not to trust their child with the internet. Trust should be the first line of defense against predators and adult content, and if that fails, keyloggers are perfectly acceptable. I remember my parents would lecture me almost every time I was online a couple years ago about what not to do, and I think that works. I think that if most children hear the same advice and warnings from a parent a couple times (in a calm, non-threatening voice) they will be more likley to listen and follow the advice. Not being a parent myself, or having much experience with children, that is only what I gather from my own experiences.

I agree too. Non-threatening calm voices always works. None of this screaming bleep. I use to hear a lot of it, and it didn't really help, regardless if it were about the computer or not.

However the one thing I think parents should do is when trying to get the truth out of the kid, don't lie and say... I know where you have been, so just tell us why, when in reality you don't know where they have been.

Lies don't make the truth any easier to get to.

I can only aggree with Yanowhiz and Lanscader.
In a few months i will be sweet 16, hehe. And even at that age, I don't find myself to "old" or "grown up" for my parents to know what I'm doing??? I mean is that so much a crime??? For your parents to know what you are doing?? I mean come on! :thumbsup:
I am still a kid who likes to have fun. And yes i have more wisdom than my 10 year old brother, but I still don't have as much wisdom as my 50 year old dad.
I do like to think of myself as a mature teen, but i have no problem with my parents knowing what i'm doing when they are not around.
When I was born, I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a half!!!
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#21 groovicus

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 12:58 PM

Without getting into the ethics question, there are several thigs you can do. First, if you feel activity is happening on the computer that shgouldn't be, then move the computer to a family room or other common area. What kid really needs a computer in their bedroom (or a TV for that matter... but that is a different topic for debate)

Most monitoring software can easily be disabled, software firewalls are probably a better option of seeing "where" they are going without revealing total content. You are not going to get the passwords for the email accounts without really invading her privacy. Depending on the situation, should she become aware of the monitoring, the backlash may be worse than what you are already facing.

If you feel that you need that level of monitoring, then there are commercial solutions available, but I don't know enough about any of them to recommend them. One thing to note is that there is a difference between monitoring software, and software designed to limit Internet activity.

#22 Piney

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 01:50 PM

*Climbing on soapbox*

The key to this whole thread is trust. Yes, kids will be kids. Yes, they love to chat with friends on the various IM applications, have their own email accounts, and even hang out in chat rooms.

If I, as the parent, set the ground rules, and be explicit with my expectations, and the kidlet chooses to violate or ignore, then there will be consequences. I can (and have) remove their access to the internet. School work? Do it offline, download it to either a CD or floppy and take it to school to present in class. Breaking my trust will result in consequences.

I am of the "older than dirt" age group. My own youngest, at 14, could input coding for a TRS-80 while I could just turn it on. One of our grands lives with us, and he was able to figure out how to hack into the school districts computer system. :thumbsup: Luckily for all of us, he did no harm other than to point out a hole in their security. He lost all computer privileges at school and home.

I used to work on a gaming site, and monitored the playing rooms for imappropriate behavior. What would you think if you saw a player post something similar to: "Any kids here under 10 want to play?" This site was to be for 13+ aged kids. I had my grandson come into the room, and the table to see what was being said...(my nic showed I was part of the staff). The player attempted to setup IM contact with all the boys (not the girls) present so they could have a 'fun time'. Innocent? Maybe. My instinct was that he was a predator.

Any kid whose behavior has changed radically, and whose grades have gone downhill, may well be getting in too deep. I agree with the calm, quiet, no screaming, chat with kids.

*climbs down off soapbox*

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#23 Piney

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 01:54 PM

Yanowhiz and Lanscader and deerslayer, can I adopt you 3 ? Your parents must all be so proud of you! :thumbsup:
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#24 coolchris706

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:14 PM

I'm 15 and my parents don't feel that they need to install any software on my computer to monitor my internet surfing. Although I am often on the computer they seem to trust me enough and know that I won't get into any sites that I'm not supposed to be in. Which is true. I use the internet mainly for researching various subjects and occasionaly I chat on AIM with friends. If kids would just obey their parents then there would be no need for internet monitoring at all but I guess some kids aren't smart enough to just do what they are told.

Honor thy father and thy mother...
Obey thy elders...

^^^Whatever happened to that???

#25 shercoman

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 10:32 PM

I'm 16 and i'd love to see my parents TRY to monitor my computer. But seriously, trust is the important thing. There is no need for keyloggers or other software if you trust your kids. And if you can't trust your own children, then you have to question your ability as a parent.

#26 TEB

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 12:21 AM

I do support the fact this is a matter of trust. But also leading by example.

I mean if you have a good child, not very many known problems, I dont think its right to install a keylogger.

That completely violating ones privacy and regardless of their age they deserve it.
Lets put it this way, would you let your child install a keylogger and your machine and have all of your conversations watched?

If you have raised a child right, and led them the way you lead your life. Then theres no need to go behind their back, Violate their trust. What i would do if i was going to install any software on their machines the first thing i would to is let them know,

"hey, im gonna put some website monitoring software on your computer. Any bad sites you visit itll let me know, disable it and itll let me know."

What i used, and i know many other people use is a program called xwatch

This is a free accountability program helping with online integrity. It is offered at no charge by the ministry of XXXchurch.com and it's supporters. Whenever you browse the Internet and access a site which may contain questionable material, the program will save the site name on your computer. Approximately every 30 days or 2 weeks(depending on your preference), a person of your choice (an accountability partner) will receive an email containing all possible questionable sites you may have visited within the month. This information is meant to encourage open and honest conversation between friends and families and help us all be more accountable.

This report only goes to your chosen accountability partners and is not stored or used by XXXchurch or any other organization.

You can get it here (along with a faq and overview of the program)
http://www.x3watch.com/download.htm

Watch kovr's review of it here (windows media player)
http://www.jukeboxed.com/x3/x3watch.wmv

Edited by Techsomething, 10 July 2005 - 12:25 AM.


#27 ~overkill~

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 09:04 PM

I have to stand on the thin line between the extremes. Keep an eye on what they do and where they go, but give them freedom to explore.

i feel the same as scarlett...right to privacy my foot, and if i had kids thats what they would get if i caught em on messenger. No kids but i was raised in a world where "children seen/ not heard, dont speak til spoken to, do not mind the affairs of adults, etc. a bit extreme i say but i learned from it. I feel as if those parents trying to respect their 12 y/olds privacy are trying to justify the fact that they would rather be at the club livin it up instead of watching what their kids are doing.

I have to stand on the thin line between the extremes. Keep an eye on what they do and where they go, but give them freedom to explore.

that is the ultimate key. That is good parenting. But that takes time and effort. if you are 15 when you have your first child, a lot of that is out the window.

Dont get me wrong here, im not pointing any fingrs, there are many reasons why this is happening today, that dould be a topic which lasts for months on here, but that IS the bottom line,

jg i see your point, but the difference between 12 yo and senior in high school is two different planes of existence. By the time a kid is a senior in high school they have developed into who they are going to be. still will have lessons in life to learn from and adapt to, til death, but the core is there.

#28 frankie12

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 12:56 AM

I am 16 and i don't care that my parents check on me sometimes to see what I am doing on the computer. I don't mind it because I know that they are just trying to keep me safe and to not let me get into any trouble. I also only IM my friends and not random people like some people like to try. I also hope that my parents have some trust in me and i can take care of myself when they are not watching me.

Edited by frankie12, 20 July 2005 - 12:57 AM.


#29 yano

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:07 AM

Yanowhiz and Lanscader and deerslayer, can I adopt you 3 ? Your parents must all be so proud of you! :thumbsup:

:flowers: :trumpet:



Its all about trust, as long as you don't get the government showing up on your doorstep, getting a ton of junk mail from strangers, and getting strange people stalking you, and visitng you, you'll be ok. I've earned my trust with my parents (now mostly my mom, since I live with her and I'm only on the internet at home), and that's why I have the privelage of using the internet unmointored. As long as I am not doing any illegal, wrong, or just plain stupid, then I see no reason to question my warabouts on the internet. In fact I wouldn't mind having one installed, just as long as I don't know about it, because its a phycological thing, if I knew about it, then you wouldn't use that computer.
However, if my mom did install a keylogger/monitoring program I wouldn't mind I'd still do my normal activities (talking to my g/f on aim, surf the web using StumbleUpon, hang out here at BC, ocasionaly visit the chat here, and play my games {diablo II, starcraft, BF2, etc}) In fact I spend more time talking to my g/f on aim than I do anything else on the computer. Sure I may make a couple of post while talking to her, but its not like I'm downloading illegal bleep using bleepbleep programs, or surfing wrong sites. Sure we all may have accidently clicked on one, but its an accident. So what if a bad site showed up once in a log, however, if it showed up several times then I think that would be the time to intervene.




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