Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Windows 7 Will make Internet Explorer Optional (sort of)


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 Andrew

Andrew

    Bleepin' Night Watchman


  • Moderator
  • 8,260 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Right behind you
  • Local time:09:33 PM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 01:30 PM

Microsoft engineers have revealed more information about the ability to turn off certain applications, most notably Internet Explorer 8 (IE8), in Windows 7 rollouts.


Source: http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2238076/...-let-users-turn

BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 Swordie

Swordie

  • Members
  • 792 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami, Florida
  • Local time:12:33 AM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 02:15 PM

Finally! I hate it that everytime you buy a computer- IE is your only option until you decide to get another browser.
Who said I couldn't have everything?

#3 the_patriot11

the_patriot11

    High Tech Redneck


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,763 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wyoming USA
  • Local time:11:33 PM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:29 PM

whats the big deal, at least it comes with a browser, if you dont like it you can install new ones and even uninstall IE. I mean it could come with no browser at all forcing you to download one, and then they could charge you to download one. eeek. I got no problem with windows including IE, after all their both microsoft products. now what I wish is more distros of linux came with firefox X) but oh well. :D

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.


#4 Andrew

Andrew

    Bleepin' Night Watchman

  • Topic Starter

  • Moderator
  • 8,260 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Right behind you
  • Local time:09:33 PM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:59 PM

if you dont like it you can ... uninstall IE.

Not really. IE is baked into many parts of the Windows OS. So even if you use a different browser, you're exposed to the vulnerabilities of IE.

#5 scff249

scff249

    Indecisive Lurker


  • Members
  • 1,319 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A galaxy far, far away...
  • Local time:12:33 AM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:08 PM

Aren't some things required to have IE like Windows Updates or am I just imagining it?

"Ototo'i wa usagi o mita no...Kino wa shika...Kyo wa anata." -Kotomi Ichinose (Clannad) [see below for translation]
"Day before yesterday I saw a rabbit, and yesterday a deer, and today, you." -The Dandelion Girl
"You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person." -Katawa Shoujo


#6 Andrew

Andrew

    Bleepin' Night Watchman

  • Topic Starter

  • Moderator
  • 8,260 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Right behind you
  • Local time:09:33 PM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:31 PM

Aren't some things required to have IE like Windows Updates or am I just imagining it?

You're not imaginging it. Many, many parts of Windows depend on the Internet Explorer dlls to render hypertext and other functions. Windows Help, for example, would not work if the dlls were removed.

#7 Sterling14

Sterling14

  • Members
  • 1,842 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • Local time:12:33 AM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:15 PM

I think they're doing this because wasn't some organization suing microsoft for having IE preinstalled on windows? They were saying it's unfair to other browsers.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943

#8 JohnWho

JohnWho

    Who was running the store?


  • Members
  • 2,611 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa Bay Area, Florida, USA
  • Local time:01:33 AM

Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:22 PM

I think they're doing this because wasn't some organization suing microsoft for having IE preinstalled on windows? They were saying it's unfair to other browsers.


Which would make sense if they were actually selling IE.




In any case, if no browser were included with Windows, how would one get on the Internet to download a browser to use with Windows?

:thumbsup:


I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!


#9 patbox

patbox

  • Members
  • 456 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:06:33 AM

Posted 10 March 2009 - 07:05 AM

I think they're doing this because wasn't some organization suing microsoft for having IE preinstalled on windows? They were saying it's unfair to other browsers.


From what I heard, Opera Software filed a complain to the European Commission. And European Commission decided to bring Microsoft to court over this. (P.S. For those who are not European: European Commission is the executive branch of the European Union).
Message from Patbox: I AM LOOKING FOR A GIRLFRIEND (PM if interested) :-)

#10 patbox

patbox

  • Members
  • 456 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:06:33 AM

Posted 10 March 2009 - 07:13 AM

Which would make sense if they were actually selling IE.


Not quite. Most of the people use IE because it comes with Windows, and they do not bother to investigate if other internet browsers do exist. If IE wont come with the original installation, IE will definitely loose market share to firefox and opera, even chrome or safari.

In any case, if no browser were included with Windows, how would one get on the Internet to download a browser to use with Windows?


I have no idea. I was thinking about this as well. I guess when you go to the store to buy Windows you would also need to buy an internet browser. You would have to choose between buying IE, Opera, etc. Else, there would need to be some kind of simple browser with Windows 7 that allows you to download a browser :-) Anyway most of the PCs you buy come with buch of software installed other than Windows. So the companies like HP, or ACER, or ASUS would need to add some type of browser to the PCs they sell.

@Amazing Andrew: Can you explain how do you download a browser if you don't have IE in Windows 7?

Edited by patbox, 10 March 2009 - 07:14 AM.

Message from Patbox: I AM LOOKING FOR A GIRLFRIEND (PM if interested) :-)

#11 JohnWho

JohnWho

    Who was running the store?


  • Members
  • 2,611 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa Bay Area, Florida, USA
  • Local time:01:33 AM

Posted 10 March 2009 - 08:13 AM

Which would make sense if they were actually selling IE.


Not quite. Most of the people use IE because it comes with Windows, and they do not bother to investigate if other internet browsers do exist. If IE wont come with the original installation, IE will definitely loose market share to firefox and opera, even chrome or safari.



I suppose, but does it really matter - "market share" - if the product is free?

Whatever, I certainly appreciate that Microsoft includes a free browser with their Windows OS's. Just as, I would imagine, Apple users appreciate the free Safari browser with the Mac OS.

In both cases, one can immediately get online and download another browser.




Oh, by the way - for those that remember, Windows 95 did not include a browser. IE was part of the first "Plus" package and wasn't always free.


I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!


#12 patbox

patbox

  • Members
  • 456 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:06:33 AM

Posted 10 March 2009 - 08:30 AM

I suppose, but does it really matter - "market share" - if the product is free?


Maybe not at the moment. But in the future everything on earth will be internet based, even operating systems. If Opera can make its name with the browser, the will certainly start to use their good name to sell bunch of other stuff.

And don't forget corporate clients, who use browsers in their companies and need all kind of services like user support, internet security and so on.

In its complaint to the European Union Opera argues that: Microsoft is abusing its dominant position by tying its browser, Internet Explorer, to the Windows operating system and by hindering interoperability by not following accepted Web standards. Opera has requested the Commission to take the necessary actions to compel Microsoft to give consumers a real choice and to support open Web standards in Internet Explorer.

Edited by patbox, 10 March 2009 - 08:35 AM.

Message from Patbox: I AM LOOKING FOR A GIRLFRIEND (PM if interested) :-)

#13 Andrew

Andrew

    Bleepin' Night Watchman

  • Topic Starter

  • Moderator
  • 8,260 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Right behind you
  • Local time:09:33 PM

Posted 10 March 2009 - 12:52 PM

@Amazing Andrew: Can you explain how do you download a browser if you don't have IE in Windows 7?

Me? Easy:

C:\>ftp ftp.mozilla.org
Connected to dm-ftp01.mozill.org
User (dm-ftp01.mozilla.org:(none)): Anonymous
331 Please specify the password.
Password: (anything)
230 Login successful.
ftp>get "/pub/firefox/releases/3.0.7/win32/en-US/Firefox Setup 3.0.7.exe"

I would probably use Filezilla rather than the Windows command line FTP client myself, though the command line based client could be scripted with a batch file. Distribute batch files for all the browsers! Let the user decide!


Edit: Here's the batch file to be used:

First, create a text file named ff-ftp.txt with the following text:
open ftp.mozilla.org
Anonymous
password
get "/pub/firefox/releases/3.0.7/win32/en-US/Firefox Setup 3.0.7.exe"
bye

Now, create a batch file with the following text:
ftp -s:ff-ftp.txt
start Firefo~1.exe

Execute the batch file and Firefox 3.0.7 for Windows will be downloaded and the installer will be launched.

Edited by Amazing Andrew, 10 March 2009 - 01:06 PM.


#14 patbox

patbox

  • Members
  • 456 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:06:33 AM

Posted 10 March 2009 - 01:33 PM

I would probably use Filezilla rather than the Windows command line FTP client myself, though the command line based client could be scripted with a batch file. Distribute batch files for all the browsers! Let the user decide!

Execute the batch file and Firefox 3.0.7 for Windows will be downloaded and the installer will be launched.


That's pretty amazing. You know everything!!! However, if Windows 7 does not come up with IE browse pre-installed you could not find expect a typical user to run these commands. So I expect if Windows 7 is distributed without IE, the user will have to buy some browser in the shop.

Overall, I think it is definitely a good thing if W7 comes out with no internet browser. The other internet browsers (like Firefox or Opera) will increase their market share. If I had to buy OPERA for $5 in the store, I would .-) For $10 I would not :-D
Message from Patbox: I AM LOOKING FOR A GIRLFRIEND (PM if interested) :-)

#15 Andrew

Andrew

    Bleepin' Night Watchman

  • Topic Starter

  • Moderator
  • 8,260 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Right behind you
  • Local time:09:33 PM

Posted 10 March 2009 - 05:27 PM

Personally, I have no objection to Internet Explorer being included with Windows. As has been pointed out, it is convenient to have a browser installed already so that users don't have to download one using methods which may be beyand their technical ability. Most Linux distros come with a default browser preinstalled, like Firefox or Konqueror.

No, what I, and many others, object to is the needless integration of IE into areas of the Windows OS which it need not be associated. The very impossibility of uninstalling IE without seriously affecting other areas of the OS is unaccepatble. Firefox can be removed from Linux without much fuss, as can Konqueror, and indeed any program installed on a Linux box (granted, uninstalling something like, for example, the shell would be a bad thing, but it could be done!)

And even having IE inextricably baked into the OS wouldn't be so bad if Microsoft would make IE worth having to begin with. Sure, they have been doing better the last few years. But it speaks to their overall philosophy that the biggest software company in the world can't (or won't) create a web browser that is on par with any of the available competition. IE's stupendous and lamentable track record with security flaws and standards compliance is so atrocious that it is nearly beyand belief. Even the US government, in the form of the Computer Emergency Readiness Team has recommended that users switch from IE and lambasted the integration of the browser into the OS (note: emphasis is mine):

There are a number of significant vulnerabilities in technologies related to the IE domain/zone security model, trust in and access to the local file system (Local Machine Zone), the Dynamic HTML (DHTML) document object model (in particular, proprietary DHTML features), the HTML Help system, MIME type determination, the graphical user interface (GUI), and ActiveX. These technologies are implemented as operating system components that are used by IE and many other programs to provide web browser functionality. These components are integrated into Windows to such an extent that vulnerabilities in IE frequently provide an attacker significant access to the operating system.
It is possible to reduce exposure to these vulnerabilities by using a different web browser, especially when viewing untrusted HTML documents (e.g., web sites, HTML email messages). Such a decision may, however, reduce the functionality of sites that require IE-specific features such as proprietary DHTML, VBScript, and ActiveX. Note that using a different web browser will not remove IE from a Windows system, and other programs may invoke IE, the WebBrowser ActiveX control (WebOC), or the HTML rendering engine (MSHTML).

Source: http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/713878






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users