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Com Surrogate Error and Net Framework Question


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#1 commart

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 05:54 PM

This is my machine:

Case: Antec P180
MB: Asus P5K3
PS: Corsair 520W
CPU: Intel 6700 2.66Ghz
SDRAM: Corsair 4GB DDR3
VC: Asus EN8600GT
C: WD Raptor 150GB
E: Seagate Barracuda 750GB
F: Seagate FreeAgent 1-TB : Norton Ghost
M: LaCie 320
OS: XP Pro OEM, SP2
Admin: Office 2007 Pro
Adobe: Web Basic CS3; PS-CS2; Lightroom v2.1


Hi, All: it has been a while since I've been here, and I have paid for it literally. My tech has left me with a couple of problems for me to solve on my own. Before I pose them, I want to ask a general question.

Last year, I rejected XP-SP3 for not getting along with an HPB9180 printer. The reversion to XP2 seemed to have gone fine and since then, I've tried keeping up manually with XP-SP2 and Office 2007 updates. Possibly, in that process, I've added a Net Framework or other update out of synch with the needs of other software. First question: for a standard XP SP2 OS machine, what version of Net Framework should I have installed?

Problem 1: Installation of the 1-TB Seagate external drive and Norton Ghost seems now to have ticked off a regularly occuring "Com Surrogate" error, basically every time Ghost starts a backup job. I think that problem may related to the Net Framework question, but I've mentioned it to keep it in mind as the Com Surrogate error becomes more clear and solveable.

Problem 2: There is an SQL security update, probably related to Office 2007's Business Contact Manager, that has failed to install for a solid year. This may be a good time to address that. If I can nix the "Com Surrogate" problem, I'll do the research on the KB?????? issue, if it's not related the aforementioned material.

Problem 3: MS Office 2007 Outlook has had issues, one part of which seems to have been solved by removing the default printer status from an HP 722C Printer (operating with an HP 720 driver). Having locked frequently, it has become more or less stable, locking only infrequently, but it will not close without an error message.

My strategy here is to conform the OS first and not give it fits with SP3-level updates when it remains an XP2 unit. My most suspect update has to do with the Net Framework installation.

I appreciate your interest and will try to learn and return it not too far down the road.

--Jim

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#2 Charybdis

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:31 PM

With the .net issue i find its best to uninstall the current version and download and install the latest version (3.5), this tends to fix most problems, and the norton ghost error is probably related as it look like you have v12 or the like, try the .net fix to see if it resolves the issue. (I found ghost 12 to be more effort then it was worth, but that's a personal opinion, a couple of the other guys here swear by it).

After the .net issue is fixed did you want to post the error you get when you do the sql update.

The printer issue can quite often be fixed by running another driver (id try the hp930c), this can fix the works locking issue with some hp printers

#3 commart

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 11:27 AM

Hi, Charybdis--Thank you very much for straightforward advice on the .net issue. Probably around Tuesday, I will do as you have suggested and then move on to the next readily apparent systems issue.

Systems trauma, lol: I hadn't mentioned this, but the failure of a fan mount on the motherboard led my tech and I to reseat the chip in the process of anchoring a replacement fan. That and hooking back up had some consequences (but the .net issue seems quite separate from other behavior, which seems to have included lost drivers. My HP722C printer, dear old workhorse, for example has been operating off the HP720 driver (I can reinsert the XP OEM disk to get the original back, but, jeesh, what an oddity); also, unexpectedly this morning, I had to reinstall a serial-to-USB cable driver for a barcode reading device. Possibly with the larger HP printer (B9180), I may have to reinstall the driver or firmware upgrade for it and will do that as soon as more inks come in.

The Office Outlook issue, which ties in with Business Contact Manager, which uses SQL (I don't really understand the jargon, not yet), may be more stubborn, but we'll see.

More, later next week.

Thank you again for the help on this issue, which is keeping XP Pro tuned with a single appropriate .net version.

--Jim

#4 Charybdis

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:09 PM

Heat can make pc's do strange things, if a fan has failed i would do a checkdisk as well
start->run
chkdsk /r /f /x c:
and click OK, and when the pc restarts i will do a full scan of the drive (can take a while)

then when it gets into windows go to the event manager and check application for the latest winlogon entry, that should have the checkdisk log

#5 commart

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:54 PM

I'll see if the check disk routine turns up something I can fix.

In the meantime, I've learned that Netframework 2.0 through 3.5 is cumulative, and XP, wisely, won't let me kill the machine by removing it (I reserve the primary administrative account, created on the first boot, for emergency use by a remote user.

Having scanned well for malware and looked up numerous mysterious processes (that turned out legitimate), I am seriously considering rebuilding the box from the OS and up.

I'll look up old threads here for that or start a new one when I've decided to go that route.

Outlook freezes about every two or three hours up, and something related to it has been chewing up processor or RAM resources above 80 percent. "End Task" through the task manager takes care of that, and rebooting seems to restore stability for a while.

This is a pain the butt for a home-built unit where my intention was to carefully gate software and related communications from the git-go. I produce stills photography and miscellaneous editorial services and while the software needs are significant, they're also quite finite. Software updates across many programs may be the cause of instability in my unit. Also, the unit's about 18 months old, so it has a lot of restore points and probably an accumulation of oldware, like dirt, left on it. A clean install from the OS up would feel good.

#6 commart

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:41 PM

Quick update: I accepted and cleaned my registry using "Uniblue Registry Booster" and defragged it with the same. No change that I could see, but I feel better.

Outlook continues to go mad after it has been up a while.

I've produced a repair-type (insert Office 2007 disk and it asks) reinstallation.

No effect.

I'm considering an uninstall-reinstall effort around Outlook alone. Resource use on the CPU is up around 70 percent, more than half of it involving Outlook. That's not how Outlook behaves when it wakes up in the morning . . . .

:thumbsup:

#7 commart

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 07:27 PM

I had a longer note and will apologize for the brevity of this one . . . .

Outlook continues to hang, and diagnostics offer messages related to that event--I just don't know (yet) how to read and respond to them.

I'm going to run chkdsk at this point, and then I'll recap what I've done so far to get this unit operating without fault.

Edited by commart, 15 April 2009 - 10:24 PM.


#8 commart

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 10:23 PM

This story may end with a local or remote administrator, but let me not go there yet.

I built my computer to have as much control over its semi-autonomous communications and operations as possible as well as to keep it streamlined for editorial (research and writing) and photography (Adobe Suite and related apps) services. However cleanly I began (XP/SP2 OEM and Office Professional 2007), systems updates and the add-on of the Norton-managed Seagate external backup drive) some things have gone awry. Off the top, Outlook 2007, which involves also the installation of Business Contact Manager and its SQL operations, now hangs in between 45 minutes and a little more than an hour off a cold boot.

Systems diagnostics tell me that Outlook hangs, which is like a doctor telling you that you have a cold while your practically sneezing in his face.

I've done some basics. Chkdsk did not point up repairs while running, but I haven't been able to find a log entry of its report. I need a file or applications path for that (MS Administator Tools are installed--I'm reading them only, so far).

Security software--AVG, Spyware Doctor, and Spybot have been run, and generally turn up cookies I know, and many of which I approve. There is something resetting AVG to profile "Allow All" (not good), and on notification, I've been setting that back to "Stand Alone Computer" and some configuration that I've saved. Configuring the Firewall is a job I consider separate, so far, from sorting out what has been going on with Outlook. Strangely enough, from time to time, the programs opens (always) and closes (unusual now) without an error message. When it does that, I create a restore point--whatever it did, I can at least try to create the conditions for it doing the same again.

If you check out the start date on this thread, you'll see I've been wrestling with this over some time, and I think that has been a good thing because I've come to the conclusion that I'm missing two essential elements in approaching the problem: 1) a method focusing on the Outlook hang issues (there are other problems) that makes me knowledgeable about it and 2) knowledge corresponding with these arcane error message (and I seem unable to use keyboard shortcuts to copy and paste them here--I will, however, transcribe them) and an appropriate response to them.

I think my machine is clean as regards malware (also: I don't operate Outlook from my administrator account); I believe (how do I check) that Net Framework is up to date; the SQL update noted has been for SP3, but some months ago, SP3 and one of the HP printers here refused to gel, so my tech and I rolled back to SP2, and I've been updating that with at least nominal success.

Other relevant software: UniBlue's registry cleaner and driver updater (separate programs). I've found that when I've invoked changes in the system (updates), the cleaner comes up with a lot of registry problems after the reboot, and I let it fix them. So far, so good, but I'm not really certain about what a clean registry means in light of OS updates downloaded and installed.

In some ways, I regard the OS and the programs it supports as children who try to clean up after themselves but leave bits and pieces of their presence behind. Maybe.

This is a warning message typical of an Outlook hang:

"ID: 6, Application Nmae: Microsoft Office Outlook, Application Version: 12.0.6316.5000, Microsoft Office Version 12.0.6215.1000. This session lasted 416 seconds with 180 seconds of active time. This session ended with a hang."

This is the first serious "X" (error, not warning) in this evening's application log:

"The Message Queing service stopped monitoring the mapping folder C:\\WINDOWS\system32\msmq\mapping[Error: 0x5]

There was also a COM+ error earlier, but I'm going to bypass that here for a moment.

This is the most recent computer-generated error remark for Outlook:

"Failed to determine if the store is in the crawl scope (error=0x8001010d)."

Crawl scope?

I don't want to rebuild my box yet, especially if with a little discipline as regards the software one it, its security, and its configuration can be standardized incrementally by dealing with one issue and benchmark at a time.

The most visible problem is Outlook hanging (its process consumes 50 percent or more of CPU capacity throughout the period it's unable to communicate or shut down without control from the Task Manager). What is it doing those resources? Where is the problem really starting either in it or back in the system?

First operational question: would I be better off tackling errors, like the "Message Queing" one, in the order in which I encounter them in the Administrative Tools reports? Or does one concentrate on the critical component--in this instance, the Outlook hang?

Edited by commart, 15 April 2009 - 10:26 PM.


#9 commart

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 11:07 AM

I've just had two hours of solid stability--knock on wood or whatever--with Outlook (Office 2007) for the first time in I don't know how many months.

Call it voodoo plus about eight hours of compiled experience, I'm not sure what I did.

Don't you hate that?

But I did learn a few things:

1. Be methodical; be patient; always back up a registry or make a restore point before making a change.

2. Let change take effect and monitor it. I learned that Outlook would have between 45 minutes and a little more than an hour of up-time before freezing; I also learned that my installation of AVG's defense product would update its spam-filtering rules about every two hours. Hmmmm. The last thing I did before hitting this oasis was restore every AVG variable I had messed with to its default setting.

3. I don't know if scanning my computer for malware in safe mode did any good, but it gave me a llittle more confidence about the scan.

In my setup, "C:" is the only program-supporting drive. The second drive is all data and should have no .exe or program-invoking files on it. The concept hasn't worked quite perfectly because I enjoy the "My Documents" function for my user account, and those data files seem to want to reside on C: rather than the second drive.

In the process of working with my computer's problems, I downloaded Microsoft's Administrator Tools and noted that were was other debugging software held separate from the XP system. Clearly, the certified systems administrators have a way of approaching the XP OS much different from the user who wants to use the computer for other things. My inclination is to take the hint and work the next bug (I'm still waiting for the Outlook freeze, any minute) solely from the vantage point of computer behavior as it appears through the various logs. Where to start learning seems the question that might come before all others. (I do have The Missing Manual: Windows XP Pro, Second Edition, and it has been helpful).

The Uniblue software: definitely helped me update a major printer driver with a minimum of fuss. The computer seems to have kept it, however, from updating communications hardware drivers, and that's just fine: eerything working as it should (ain't broke, don't fix). The registry compare, compile, and repair utility ditched some functionality at the end. First, I restored conditions prior to the last fix. That didn't quite do it. So I considered rolling back to my last restore point but figured I would have to restore the registry to that same point first. The software allowed me to do that, and that was the last "repair" or action I took. I did not (nope), did not invoke the restore point.

I think Outlook and the AVG firewall or spam filtering utility may have been at odds. I'll never know. Additional actions involving the registry both improved functioning, up to a point, but also may have been injudicious as regards "error" finding on the last scan. One assumes such software knows what it's doing, but it has no consciousness, and it doesn't: it only runs routines, and I haven't the expertise to police those routine-based decisions. It was good to be able to restore the former state of the registry--and also to roll that back several days.

If this computer remains stable, I may well remove the automated registry-fixing tool.

In retrospect, and known from the beginning: while I would like to never change the functionality of my computer, Microsoft will continue to produce security or other "thoughtful"updates, and that work may not be perfect or perfectly accepted by the system overall. Still, having everything I now have working is where I would like to stop messing around inside the works.

#10 commart

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 12:32 PM

1313H: Outlook hangs after 3.5 hours of normal operations. AVG general computer scan about 30 minutes into its routine. I'll relaunch the Office utility (from a cold boot) during a scan-free period and see if it holds up in the abscence of an AFG scheduled routine.

It seems there should be a way to nail the operating error--identify it, translate it, and address it--solely through administrator software.

#11 commart

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 07:40 PM

I'll stop bumping this here.

Intermittent issues are tough and adding to them with firewall and other reconfiguring only adds to a mountain of "other variables". There are a couple of moves I may yet make with my existing system, but the trigger for the Outlook freeze-up has been ambiguous at best. Sometimes a process shows up like "catdb.exe" show up in my task manager and in someone else's problem experience (e.g., http://discussions.virtualdr.com/archive/i.../t-177138.html), and I can look into that, but if it doesn't show up twice . . . .

While I fiddle with this demon another day or two, I'm going to look for a thread here or start on one doing a "clean install". That may be easier on my machine than it sounds, but I don't want to initiate that drive cleaning and rebuilding process without preparing a "tick sheet" for it.

#12 hamluis

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:45 AM

XP Clean Install, Stevens - http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

Clean Install Procedure with Illustrative Screen Captures - http://www.theeldergeek.com/xp_home_install_-_graphic.htm

Differences between a Quick format and a regular format during a clean installation of Windows XP - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302686

Louis

#13 commart

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:34 AM

Louis, thank you very much for the references.

One thing I've done here to stay out of trouble while making progress, at least in my education, has been to start putting in a couple of hours on IT in the morning and monitor changes from that for a day. Of course I have The Missing Manual for XP here as well as a growing list of online references for sorting out issues. Every little bit helps. --Jim

#14 hamluis

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:55 AM

Good practice.

I find the Internet to be an incomparable source of info on just about anything, I still remember how awed I was by my first computer and Win 95 :thumbsup:. I've learned much since then, still have more to learn :flowers:.

Louis

#15 commart

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 02:36 PM

Hi, Louse--I'm going to start a thread I think you'll like.

I skipped Norton Ghost-managed backup last night and got 4.5 hours of uninterrupted Outlook use this morning, plus a close-out of the program and a start without error. Then about 20 minutes ago . . . . another hang. There was a disabled 3 p.m. backup (I did the disabling days ago), but I saw jsched (exe., something like it) in the processes list and thought there might be a remnant of the 3 p.m. effort kicking in. Another noun, still strange to me, AWAM showed up on the processes list and that led to a howdy-do with the machine's services console (I am barely above saying "thigamajig" and "whatchumacallit").

Here's the bottom line and let me start another thread: I put off the "clean install" and subsequent software rebuilding and updating involved.

Instead, I've elected to orient toward administration--i.e., looking at the computer not in terms of my user needs but in terms of its functing as related through its engineered logs and administrative tools.

Whole other thread.

Besides, I'd like to get one or two steps away from Post 13 on this one.

--Jim




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