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Nation of Cowards


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#1 rcfrgf

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 02:58 PM

rcfrgf
Attorney General Eric Holder called this a nation of Cowards.
Is he right? My opinion is he should be fired or apologize.

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#2 groovicus

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:18 PM

For what.....having an opinion? Since when is having an opinion grounds for termination?

#3 Animal

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:38 PM

When? Where? In what context? In response to what?

Such an open ended statement as he should be fired for saying something that you suggest he said. I say suggest he said it, as I have not heard the comment, nor seen, or read a report on it. Is like me saying you should be banned from this forum for suggesting he be fired. There is equal data for each suggestion. Yours and mine.

Sounds like a sound bite, snatched from mid air.


And no you're not being banned for suggesting it. I'm giving an example of severe consequences being suggested with zero supporting information.

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#4 woodyblade

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:36 PM

Just searched for him (Attorney General Eric Holder) on Google here's the story from Yahoo, I believe this is the context rcfrgf was referring to (I'll not quote it here because it is too big) - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090218/ap_on_..._pe/holder_race

Quote of first two paragraphs;

WASHINGTON – Eric Holder, the nation's first black attorney general, said Wednesday the United States was "a nation of cowards" on matters of race, with most Americans avoiding candid discussions of racial issues. In a speech to Justice Department employees marking Black History Month, Holder said the workplace is largely integrated but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives.

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said.


From reading the whole story it seems he lacked clarification on specific examples, although Hilary Shelton adds a bit to it and calls Eric Holders speech "constructively provocative". To be honest what she said on people avoiding race issues by exlcusion and silence is quite correct it happens the same here in the UK, everyone has to pick there words carefully (obviously I'm having to now to make this constructive debate), any wrong word normally results in the looks of shock and disgust followed by "I'm going to sue you" (Mainly in America, suing culture isn't as bad in the UK).

There has been a few stories on racist stuff in the UK over the last few weeks including Prince Harry and Prince Charles and a TV Presenter who got sacked for a word that I didn't find offensive but someone who worked with the TV Presenter found it offensive, it was in Private but stupidly handled because it was brought out in public to try and humiliate the Presenter.

I don't know how he (Eric Holder) wants us to speak about this because obviously I and many others would fear saying anything wrong for fear of being sued, it's a pretty hard subject that you have to tiptoe around and I'd rather stay silent and keep all my stuff instead of getting robbed with fines and compensation in court, don't know what anyone else thinks but thats how I see it.

I also quote this from the Story;

Andrew Grant-Thomas, Deputy Director of the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity at Ohio State University, praised Holder's general message but said the wording of the speech may alienate some.


Obviously it has alienated the OP as this person in the quote said.

The Attorney General shouldn't be fired like the OP said but it's a speech designed to provoke debate and he's got exactly that by the looks of it, there should be no punishment there, the Attorney General may have started the process where fear of saying a wrong word i.e. something considered racist, might be gone and we can have proper free speech obviously where it is constructive not where the words are aimed at being harmful.

#5 MissPlaced

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 12:12 AM

IMHO,My world is a meltin pot of "different People" aren't we all different????...We all come from different life experiences..ect.....To me this is a simple issue that's once again been made into a mountain.....If we treat other people the way we want to be treated, then that's a great start!
Most of my co-worker just happen to be "white"...do i socialize with most of them?? NO.....why, you ask, is it because i'm Black???asian???Indian???...nope...my race doesn't haven't have a thange to do with it....i don't socialize with them, because of the content of their character..i just happen to be "white" but like i said race doesn't have a thange to do with it.....
To suggest that Eric Holder be fired is a bit like throwin out the baby with the bath water....
as is so with each and everyone of us we bring to the table our own life experiences, For this man to have made the statement that he made...his lifes experiences have brought him to this conclusion..you can't fault the man for that....
to stand up for what you believe to be true, takes alot of guts....and this case has opened the door for very healthy self examination...just my 2 cents....

You want to be great, Learn how to heal people, To hurt people is easy


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#6 ryan_w_quick

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 04:23 PM

How many advantages and passes must we give African Americans before they feel like they are our equals? They are the ones keeping issues of race going. I'm a European American, and I never grew up hating anyone. I hate some people in this country for just assuming I'm a racist. You know, this guys an atourney general. I probably will never reach such a prestigious title, yet I'm probably one of the "cowards" hes talking about for net helping out the blacks. just flat out F some people.
"To do less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." Steve Prefontaine

"The things you own end up owning you." Tyler Durden

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same god who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo

#7 Guest_fuzzywuzzy6_*

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 08:38 PM

Ryan, as a member of a different minority group, who has followed the travails and progress of various minority groups, I must suspect that you are living a very sheltered life. I am not at all politically correct, as I believe it hampers open academic discourse and discourse in other public venues, but I am curious about ethnic groups, and do try to be polite and to be tolerant.

I have seen affirmative action programs that were stacked against the beneficiaries, and heard of those that were misused to promote friends and acquaintances, rather than the hard-working more meritorious members of the same ethnic group. The largest east Indian language collection in our county library system had a cataloguer who has available to work on the books as they came in, but no one at the branch that held by far the largest collection in those languages for several years. Why? Because an East Indian of any religious or provincial group was not the same as the ethnic group of the woman who supervised the branch, who was by no means an Asian. Her supervisors put an end to that, I think. There were affirmative action programs at the IRS regional center for the physically disabled that required those folks to do things like push carts to make deliveries when they had walkers or canes. There are a lot of ignorant, mean-spirited people in the world. Also, when subsidies run out, hard-working meritorious affirmative action hires often lose their jobs. There is a developmentally disabled neighbor of mine who has endured this 3 or 4 times.

Affirmative action is necessary, because there are still a lot of ignorant and/or bigoted employers, managers, supervisors and educators out there. Even white anglo-saxon women are not yet getting a fair shot in many arenas of employment.

Affirmative action is used to promote diversity, but it is also used to give people a chance who would otherwise be denied that chance. And some of them excel.

#8 ryan_w_quick

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:30 AM

All im saying is how much is enough? How much do i have to give people head starts, or advantages, or more money, or bend over, just because they are a different color than me? If there is no end in sight (which i believe there isnt), then affirmative action is not working.
"To do less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." Steve Prefontaine

"The things you own end up owning you." Tyler Durden

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same god who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo

#9 Guest_fuzzywuzzy6_*

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 12:25 PM

It will end when there are relatively few jerks and bigots in positions of responsibility.

#10 groovicus

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 02:15 PM

It will end when there are relatively few jerks and bigots in positions of responsibility.

Its too bad that only the jerks and bigots have the tenacity to get themselves into positions of responsibility. From where I sit, all anyone else ever does is sit and gripe about things instead of trying to do something about it.


....I'm just sayin'.

#11 ophelia

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:31 PM

All im saying is how much is enough? How much do i have to give people head starts, or advantages, or more money, or bend over, just because they are a different color than me? If there is no end in sight (which i believe there isnt), then affirmative action is not working.


Right now there is a world nation of cowards who are all pointing the finger at each other in a polictical view


To have us all here at this point discussing this issue means they get some sort of breathing space until further notice


So what are we all going to do about it?


That is the burning issue


Oh and do not look at me as I not have the answers, just looking for input and ideas

Edited by ophelia, 26 February 2009 - 11:32 PM.

I know nothing, except the state of my own ignorance

#12 ophelia

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:43 PM

All im saying is how much is enough? How much do i have to give people head starts, or advantages, or more money, or bend over, just because they are a different color than me? If there is no end in sight (which i believe there isnt), then affirmative action is not working.


Right now there is a world nation of cowards who are all pointing the finger at each other in a polictical view


To have us all here at this point discussing this issue means they get some sort of breathing space until further notice


So what are we all going to do about it?


That is the burning issue


Oh and do not look at me as I not have the answers, just looking for input and ideas



What we are talking about is real issues such as

World banking system.....how long are our saving safe for?

The world economy?...Does such thing have any meaning?

Hunger and is the world we know going turn in to a semi third world?


So where was progression?

You have to look deep within and answer these questions for yourselves

We need a new world Order/new world council to sort out all the worlds problems full stop!

OUR WAY FOR THE PEOPLE!
I know nothing, except the state of my own ignorance

#13 Guest_Abacus 7_*

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:42 AM

You have to look deep within and answer these questions for yourselves

We need a new world Order/new world council to sort out all the worlds problems full stop!

OUR WAY FOR THE PEOPLE!



:thumbsup:

Maybe this will help? From Australia?

Multiculturalism in Australia

Multiculturalism means many cultures – different arts and customs of different race groups occurred and shown in society. The word Multiculturalism comes from two Latin words, ‘Multus’ meaning many and ‘Cultura’ meaning cultivation. So Multiculturalism can mean many different racial groups with its own culture mixing into one nation. The Australians came from more than one-hundred different country origins which have brought their own cultures. They settled in Australia in order to find a better life. In Australia there exist many different cultural groups. This condition makes Australia a multicultural country, a country with many races, ethnic groups and cultures.
The multicultural society has some effects on literature in Australia. There is a multicultural national literature. Since there are many cultural groups in Australia, the Australian government has then cultural policy in Australia in order to control the society and its cultures. So there is a law that will control all the ethnic has its own rights of its culture.


http://www.petra.ac.id/asc/people/multiculturalism/

It really does happen just like that here. Not ALL people are happy about it, we have our share of radicals and biased people, but at least it is a positive start to fixing one Huge Problem, Mate.

For many years Australia had a "White Australia Policy" whereby all non Whites were excluded from Immigration to this Country. An Aussie, Al Grassby, removed all traces of that Hated Policy from Australian Law.

Nothing is ever easy, but it can be done if people allow it.

http://www.invisionplus.net/forums/index.p...&#entry3182

:flowers:

Edited by Abacus 7, 27 February 2009 - 08:43 AM.


#14 Guest_Abacus 7_*

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 10:45 AM

:thumbsup:

Just Bumping this, because an obviously unworthy Thread was removed.

:flowers:

#15 Guest_fuzzywuzzy6_*

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:28 PM

Ryan, it is obvious from your posts here that you are very frustrated with affirmative action as a policy. That does not mean that affirmative action is never applied in a helpful way. Yes, affirmative action has been misapplied or misused in certain situations. There are xenophobes, bigots, etc. in all ethnic, racial and religious groups. The ultimate goal should be to promote psychologically healthy workplaces, where people are promoted on merit, and those of equal or near-equal abilities are given a shot at success that they otherwise would not have. Sometimes the least likely person turns out to be the hardest working or the most able. Sometimes the likeliest person turns out to be a total dud or a real disaster. There will always be human personality quirks and failings at play; that does not mean that we should not make an effort to improve the situation.

Is the status quo so great as it is, Ryan? Are you wealthy and do you have your own future assured? If we look out for the less fortunate, we are more able to help the average folks. No one knows what the future will bring. That is the whole point of enforcing or promoting fairness in the workplace and in society at large.




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