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Don't have the money


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#1 PCwarrior

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:18 PM

Hello all. My desk top has eaten yet another vid card, so now I'm looking to purchase another.
I have currently;GF6200 as a stand by AGP card but thats not going to be a sutable replacement for the 6800 that just left.
So Im looking at a Sapphire HD 3850, 512, GDDR3, RV760 PRO, AGP,unit that may just bairlly, fit in my tower.
Some perplexing issues are; 1 ) It needs a 12v @ 30amp PSU (450w or better) I have a 22amp.
2 ) My CPU as always creates a bottle-neck, I really cant see upgrading (new cpu for out dated board). I could be
wrong but the price and availlability of a fittable upgrade is in question.
3 ) The card has high reviews, but is it total over kill for this system. can I get the same performance from a lesser spec GPU board. ( of lesser cost?)
I do like to game, and have become acustom to the draw backs (inability to play new games) of this old PC but if your tech inclined and have any suggestions , Id sure enjoy the read . thanks
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)

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#2 Sterling14

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 11:00 AM

I take it the processor you're running is the one in your signature? If so, that processor will really bottleneck a 3850. I would recommend an AGP ATI 2600XT. Your processor will still bottleneck it, but not as significantly, and you'll be saving money. Also, you shouldn't need a new power supply for the 2600XT. It's not as good as the 3850, but it is better than a Nvidia 6200.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943

#3 PCwarrior

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:33 PM

Sterling, thanks for the reply. Yes , it still has the old CPU. As you can see by the short list of boat anchor vid cards, I have been using
Nvidia GPU based cards for some time now. I like the user interface of the newer drivers, prog default(game settings),and such. Does ATI (intel ?) GPU drivers have a reasonable, user settings interface.
The ATI 2600XT that You suggest. Is that a GPU that is utilized by many manufacturers (like the nvidia chips), and is available through many board makers? If so is there a rock solid builder utilizing this GPU , that You might suggest.
Sorry to be so long winded , but In your mention of the bottle necking that the current CPU would contribute, I couldn't help but to wonder if there is a suitable low cost upgraded cpu that I could get. The buddy that gave me this PC years ago has mentioned the poss. many times but, I wonder about the support necessary for such a swap.
If the chip was available and all went well, would the 3850 be the gpu to have? Or would the gpu just have a miserable existence until the upgrade, instead of death spiral, that puts it out of commission before the upgraded CPU became available.
The power supply i have currently is new to me but i have another PC I could use it in and really would like to build a (dare i say gaming) PC soon. So I'm not apposed to buying a new power supply, but the one I'd need for a future build would probably not have the right connectors for such if it fit this current unit?
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)

#4 PCwarrior

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:56 PM

Searching new egg I answered the chip set question.. I see many manufacturers using the GPU.

#5 PCwarrior

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 03:26 PM

Wow, On newegg I pulled up the GPU and found it in use on 5 or so of thier offerings. My question about suggested manufacturer got inflated by the use of a rather exstincive tube cooler and memory chip set heatsinks in use on a PCIe unit. The prob Ive seen in past units I've abused has been Heat related. The GF 6800 I used up had a bad fan in the encapsulated heatsink that started making a woble sound upon start up so earlly in its life that even after using a mechanics steth and a ear tube I thought it was a north bridge cooling fan or rear case.
So? I would now be stuck looking at a Gpu from HIS with another enclosed fan/heat sink(diff. to evaluate & clean) or a open GPU mount fan/heatsink w/ no heatsinks on mem.. HIS & Powercolor are the only offerings at newegg. Is there another manufacturer you might suggest?

#6 PCwarrior

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 04:23 PM

My appature in setup only goes to 256 is seems. Is there any reason to go with a card with more if I can't set up for it?
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)

#7 Sterling14

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 03:33 PM

I don't think there are many processor upgrade options for your motherboard.

Now that I look at the agp cards on Newegg, if you were going to spend $100 or more on a 2600Xt, you might as well get the 3850. The 3850 will still be better even with the bottleneck. It seems the cheaper 2600Xt has heating issues, so I'd say that is out of the question. The only other card I can think of, is the ATI 3650, which still to me, for about $35 more, you're better off just buying the 3850. The agp slot is really starting to die off, and there's not many options left.

You will probably need a new power supply too as you mentioned, and if you are going to get one to use in a future build, it should work fine. The agp 3850 requires an 8-pin power connection, but the card comes with a molex (The standard 4-pin power cable) to 8-pin adapter.

The 3850 will be bottlenecked, but you would probably still see a performance increase with it over a 2600xt or 3650, just not too significantly at times. You should still see a performance increase over your older cards.

With ATI cards, ATI (they are now owned by AMD) has a program bundled with their driver downloads called Catalyst Control Center. It has a lot of features and settings for your graphics card. I prefer the program ATI Tray Tools though. It uses less system resource, and has cool features as displaying your fps and graphics temperature while in game.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943

#8 PCwarrior

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:22 PM

Sterling, I must be pretty impatient. Ive spent a few days looking at this problem and went to local shop and laid down green- backs today. Arg. I checked at a couple shops around my route home, and only one had two AGP cards. The best of the two was a BFG,512MB,GF 7300gt. Now, after picking it up, I've read about it. Newegg has it for 74usd and it would cost 79usd to ship 2nd day to AK. 150 or so, and I paid 179. I should take it back? I don't know.
Temps have been mentioned in reviews on this one as well. It seems that temps, have taken the last two boards I've had.

The AMD 3850 looks great, but the price of the CPU bottle neck doesn't. I mean, If I roll 197 or 200usd at newegg for the card&shipping I still need a PSU. I was looking at PSUs, and one to carry a monster of a rig( say, 1200w ) is around 360usd (Kingwin-Mach1) locally. I could go maybe much ( say 850w) smaller but, Why? If the PSU would be going toward a rig with twin card(eventually), dual or quad core, SLI , all the yada in a later build. The cost dif. of the units is small ( 80 or so ) so future proof, no?

The 3850 would hold a good game together for me now, but I really don't think I will be building another AGP PC w/ a more suitable CPU any time. New PCIe is looking really good, and in that case my 3850 would sit in my old PC, under utilized for ever more.

I know my cost must seem whacked to ya. In one of the shops I mentioned earlier they have a Tt 1200w PSU for 625usd. Out of this world prices. Shipping is always there excuses. USPS would be cheaper from Newegg, but they don't offer it . For all the overhead+shipping I will spend building a rock solid anyGamingPC I could catch a flight to Cali. and buy the parts too.

With the older CPU, newer games kind of LOL at me now any ways. The ones that note system specs on startup really laugh loudest. I don't know. should I take the 7300GT back, and spend 400usd (card+shipping, Make due (500w-600w)PSU) to get a few more breathes out of a 1.2GHz system?

Thanks for the long read, I never intend to go on as I do.
Thank You for your incite, It's greatly appreciated.
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)

#9 Sterling14

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:40 PM

Take the card back, they just made about $100 profit!!!

Even though the 3850 will be bottlenecked, it's not going to have a negative effect. You would still see more performance out of it than a 7300Gt (which is really not a good card at all). I saw a 3850 agp on newegg for $125( I think sapphire brand). I wouldn't waste my money on the one that was $200 or whatever. It's essentially the same thing. Also, an ATI 3650 for around $90 would be better than a 7300Gt.

For a psu, you will not need a 1200 watt power supply! Even if you plan on getting higher end cards in SLI. If you were planning on spending $400 on an AGP system, you might as well save up for a new system.

Anyway, even with a dual card configuration in SLI, you could use a 600 watt power supply. It may be a good idea to get a 700watt or higher though.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943

#10 PCwarrior

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:17 PM

Your right, I should (on princilpe alone) take the 7300gt back. AGP is alittle difficult to get locally. So I jumped at the only thing they had with a higher # than my 6800xt. It does pain me that they wanted, like you said, the 100usd over newegg . But shipping for 1 card from them, was 74 bucks. The 3650 would be around 160.00 to get here, and as you say be a better card w/o needing a new PSU.
I ran the wattage calculator at newegg and the 3850 would need a new CPU. Arg. With the CPU and limited specs I have with this old system, could it be possible to run the 3850 without a upgraded CPU. I mean, if I kept other things moderated.

I do look forward to a complete build soon. Thanks again.
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)

#11 Sterling14

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 05:48 PM

Sorry I didn't realize where you were located (Alaska?). Those shipping costs really suck.

First off, I'm pretty sure the 6800XT is a better card than the 7300GT.

If you're saying you want to make a build soon, why not start it? For now, you could get a decent motherboard that will allow you to get a nice dual-core or quad-core processor, that also has decent integrated graphics. Of course, it will have a pciex16 slot for a graphics card when you save up enough money. I would probably suggest an Intel motherboard with geforce 7000 chipset. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....0GeForce%207000 . Also, you could get a cheaper Intel celeron dual-core, or if you want to pay $75, you can get a Pentium E5200 dual-core which really isn't that bad, and I heard it overclocks very well.

You can salvage your current hard drive, and as long as you reformat it (wipe it, but back up your data first), you can legally reuse your copy of windows xp (at least I think it may be legal). You could also temporarily use your old power supply, and your case (if the case is ATX, and if the cables for the button to turn the computer on are compatible). Don't forget you can reuse your cd/dvd drive.

All you would really need to buy is:
1. Motherboard
2. Processor
3. DDR2 ram, which is extremely cheap right now.

If you wanted an AMD build, I could also help you with that too.

This is just a suggestion of course. I really wouldn't waste anymore money into that system if you want to game (especially newer games).
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943

#12 PCwarrior

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 08:41 PM

In just the last 3 or 4 days, I have become very convinced that throwing any more at this set up is down right Stupid. The prices for a build are nothing like pre assembled units, and as you mention, could be assembled as finances permit. So I'm going to. I have to make sure the kids have shoes first (hehe), but Its got to be.
I will, as the plan moves forward, make thoughtful use of Your insite. The picking of parts and finding propper pricing, is undoutably a trick, I should use all resources available to complete.

I will have to get a 64mb os to go there. From all I've read 64mb has to be there to do the kind of distruction I'm looking to ride In to. Im sure there is unlimited chat about the diff OSs. What do you suggest, aside from the less hungry Linux and such. I'll probably stay MS in some form. Wait for 7 maybe?( I'm sure it'll cost big$ at introduction so maybe XP pro)

In your opinion, do you think tripple SLI is going any where?
If a board , CPU , OS , some DDR2 or 3 is about all I need to start the project. I may start with some ultra capable,strongly supported pieces.
My case is ATX but. Single 80mm rear fan is probably not a good idea for any more than the basics of the new rig. Besides, this old beast could go twards comunicating/buying pieces during the build and then to the older kid later. So i'm looking at the Smilladon Dirk tooth, Heard any major ney say on it?
I know the thread header states, Don't have $. Its true I must budget and all, but If I can start with say, Phenom black , a seriouse MoBo, a rockin card( to be duplicated or trippled in a year or so), PSU (maybe), and a nice case I may be able to push that past the auditors(so to speek).
Yep, I could back up data and use the current IDE hard drive and most of my periferrals so a base around 900.00 ish wouldn't be to lonesome. Just want to give it alot of fore thought .
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)

#13 Sterling14

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:29 PM

That seems like a good choice :thumbsup: .

Newegg currently has the AMD Phenom II 940 black edition for 235$ free shipping. If you use the code AMD1815, it will take $15 off, making it cost only $220. I think you need to be a subscriber to their newsletter though. The $15 off code also works with the 920 which would make it come to $180. I don't know how long this will work either.

The AMD 780G chipset is pretty nice too. However, none of the AMD chipsets work with SLI, but if they have one or more pciex16 slots, you can do crossfire (two ATI cards). ATI really has some nice cards out, including the 4830, 4850, and 4870. They are very good for the money, with the ATI 4850 around $150 if you find a good deal. Using multiple graphics card may not always be the best option. A single $200 graphics card generally works better than two $100 graphics cards. This also puts less stress on the power supply, and having to worry about having a real expensive one.

I think for the OS you mean 64-bit, not 64mb. A 64-bit OS lets you have more than 4gb of ram. I heard xp 64-bit has some issues, but I'm running vista 64-bit and I love it! 6gb of ram is nice too, really makes my games run smoother :huh: .
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943

#14 PCwarrior

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:07 PM

Sounds like you've a great rig. Yes your right, I ment 64bit. Im stoked! Chat back soon. Nice to meet ya.
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)

#15 PCwarrior

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 08:10 PM

For the current rig I floated a Sapphire 3650 in from new egg. It seems to be a workable unit for the interim. Hot fix drivers (no windows cert..) seem abit shaky. But all my ancient games seem to run with some fluidity.
(new,12/23/09) ASUS Crosshair III, Phenom IIx4 955 Blk Ed, Zalman 9500 HS, Saphire 5770 vga, W-7/64bit, 8g/Corsair/1600 RAM, 850w HX Corsair PSU, WD CB/500gb HD, Pioneer CD/DVD, Smilodon/Dirk-Tooth(modded), All custom&controlled fans. Shhhh lol :)




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