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Hard disc Error 51 during paging operation


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#1 westwoodside

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 03:17 PM

Dear all,
This is my first post.
Can anyone help with how to solve the following hard disc error please?
On booting up the system log shows disc error 51 - An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk0\D during a paging operation

M$ says is means the drive is about to fail. I've got a full back up in case...

The error only appears on boot up but can end in a complete lock up and failure to boot.
It does not happen every time (say 1 in 10) and is more likely from a cold start.
The error is logged for about two seconds (ie multiple entries), no other system errors are reported.
I've replaced the hard drive and am getting the same error.
Changing the SATA lead to a new port makes no difference.

I'm using XP Home
1GB RAM,
SATA 300 GB drive

The drive is partitioned to C (installed OS) D (User data)
I've reformatted the drive - it shows no errors and reinstalled the OS.
I've also tried changing the page file settings - no change.

Any suggestions greatfully received.

Giles

Edited by westwoodside, 05 November 2008 - 03:39 AM.


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#2 hamluis

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 04:06 PM

Hi :thumbsup:.

Contrary to what you may have been told, that message is not the kiss of death :flowers:.

The problem is that there is much varied speculation about what causes this error...and little definitive info re cures/resolutions that I can understand.

Your mention of the paging file...indicates that you've read some of the same situations.

The fact that it happens at boot should be useful...but it's not for me. Where (exactly) in the boot process does this error kick in? When the system first starts to load? When some driver is being installed?

http://support.packardbell.com/it/item/ind...;ppn=PB17B00706

http://pcs.suite101.com/article.cfm/windows_xp_boot_sequence

I suppose that, in the face of such underwhelming evidence either way...the safe thing to do is assume that the drive is failing/faulty.

I missed the most important info that you posted, my apologies :trumpet:. Since you have a D: partition, I would run chkdsk /r on that partition...then I would run a manufacturer's diagnostic on the entire drive (I don't think it differentiates between partitions on a drive).

FWIW: I don't believe in any system having only one hard drive, having at least 2 gives user much better options in situations like yours.

Louis

Edited by hamluis, 04 November 2008 - 04:08 PM.


#3 usasma

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 04:29 PM

There are a set of standard S.M.A.R.T. attributes that are used in every drive of recent manufacture.
Additionally, many manufacturer's add their own S.M.A.R.T. attributes to their own drives. That's why we recommend using a hard drive diagnostic from the manufacturer of that drive.

This particular disk error can have many different causes:
- different aspects of the hard drive being bad (the hard drive diagnostic will test this)
- corruption of the file system on the hard drive (chkdsk /r should fix this)
- corruption of the file on the hard drive (recreate the pagefile to fix any corruption)
- bad memory writing bad information into the file on the hard drive (a memory diagnostic will test this).


I'd suggest (in addition to hamluis' advice) that you recreate your pagefile to rule out that as an issue. To do this:

a ) Go to Start...Run...and type in "sysdm.cpl" (without the quotes) and press Enter.
-Then click on the Advanced tab,
-then on the Performance Settings Button,
-then on the next Advanced tab,
-then on the Virtual Memory Change button.
b ) In this window, note down the current settings for your pagefile (so you can restore them later on).
-Then click on the "No paging file" radio button, and
- then on the "Set" button. Be sure, if you have multiple hard drives, that you ensure that the paging file is set to 0 on all of them.
-Click OK to exit the dialogs.
c ) Reboot (this will remove the pagefile from your system)
d ) Then go back in following the directions in step a ) and re-enter the settings that you wrote down in step b ). Follow the steps all the way through (and including) the reboot.
e ) Once you've rebooted this second time, go back in and check to make sure that the settings are as they're supposed to be.


Also, it's not very likely that bad memory would cause this - but I'd suggest running a memory test "just in case". Here's a link to a free one: http://www.memtest86.com/ Let the test run for a minimum of 3 passes (overnight is easier and better). If it starts spitting out errors you can stop the test immediately (and we'll have to troubleshoot the memory issue).
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#4 westwoodside

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 02:05 PM

Thanks for your help

I've tried to turn off paging - no error on boot up. Not surprising since the error 51 seems to be only reported on booting. :thumbsup:
I also set to specific sizes and 'system managed' - error still present.
I'll try to run tests on the drive you suggest.
I've also included the system log - perhaps this may shed some light?
I wonder what the difference is between the 'cold start and a restart? (but it can still happen when I use restart)

Giles

Attached Files


Edited by westwoodside, 05 November 2008 - 04:16 PM.


#5 usasma

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 06:46 PM

You'll have to double click on one of the "error 51" errors in Event Viewer to get the details of the error.

We've discussed 4 things that are most likely to be causing this problem:
- hard drive problems (most likely)
- file system problems
- pagefile problems
- memory problems (lease likely)

So, the most important tests to run at this point are the tests suggested by hamluis (the hard drive diagnostic and the chkdsk /r).
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#6 westwoodside

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 01:32 AM

Thanks for this information.
I've run chkdsk /r on the partitions - all OK
Memtest also shows no problems.
I've carried out the page changes as suggested - no change.
The error doesn't always come up and only appears from the boot up.
I've attached the actual error report - all are the same.
I'll try to track down a drive specific test over the weekend.
What do you suggest now please?

Giles

Attached Files



#7 usasma

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 04:19 PM

You've addressed 3 of the 4 possibilities that I've mentioned above - the 4th (the hard drive test) is what's left.
If it passes the hard drive test - then there's nothing wrong with your system! :thumbsup:
Seriously, there are other things that could possibly cause this. But they're less likely to cause this error, and are much harder to isolate.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#8 westwoodside

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 02:15 PM

I've not been able to locate a diagnostic for the drive - it is an OEM Barracuda.
I've copied an old drive image - ie well before the problem (using Acronis True Image) to a smaller drive (Samsung 250GB) which I use as a back up drive.
This gives the same error, although there can be periods of several hours when the error is not reported on booting.
Curiously (is it significant?) the drive seems to frequently open and close of its own accord.
I've located an ISO of the diagnostic for the Samsung drive.
My skills are not sufficient to work out why it does boot. but I can see the files on the CD I made which should, but does not, auto boot.

I've also removed each peripheral in turn
(CD, DVD rewriter, camer card bay, USB ports)
to check if it is not one of them which is causing the problem - it still comes up.

Thanks in anticipation.

Giles

Edited by westwoodside, 10 November 2008 - 02:18 PM.


#9 hamluis

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 03:46 PM

SeaTools for DOS, http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/seatools/

Louis

#10 usasma

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 07:19 PM

This makes it more likely that the problem exists on your motherboard or in the cables - rather than the hard drive.
The SeaGate SeaTools diagnostic also has the option to test the onboard controller - which should help in determining where the problem may lie.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#11 westwoodside

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 03:49 PM

I'm going to order a new SATA lead and test this.
It has just had 20 hrs without the error being reported - followed by a series of errors, all only on booting.
I'm going to look at the diagnostic over the weekend.
Could you suggest how I can enable S.M.A.R.T on my board - I couldn't see any BIOS options but the post report says it is disabled.

Giles

#12 westwoodside

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 03:25 PM

The plot continues...
I
I've used a new SATA cable - the fault is still there.
I've been able to check the same tests outlined above with Samsung SATA drive and the error is still present.
I've also now been able to run the full diagnostic utility from Samsung Site for this drive - on 5/5 cycles including the full surface scan no errors present drive is healthy. All tests are 'pass'
tongue.gif
I suppose this is good news as far as the drive goes. :thumbsup:
Can I add another piece of info?
The PC (now 3 yrs old) had a similar fault, when I got the PC - it was repaired under warranty but, no parts were replaced - all the same ones on return.
Unfortunately I have no idea what was done except that the fault was cleared.
What next please?

All suggestions greatfully received.

Giles

#13 hamluis

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 04:49 PM

Well...the error indicates a hard drive error which isn't confirmed by subsequent testing.

That only leaves...the motherboard, etc.

You say that Memtest cleared the memory of blame...another suspect down.

Those were the two primary hardware suspects.

It's the motherboard as the primary suspect, by default it seems. Not so fast :thumbsup:, my friend.

It seems that Error 51 is caused by registry corruption, according to some. One of the possible impacts results in it looking as if there are hardware errors where there are none. I guess I'm willing to believe that, now that we seem to have ruled out hardware suspects.

I'd try a repair install of XP.

Louis

Edited by hamluis, 17 November 2008 - 04:50 PM.


#14 westwoodside

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:39 PM

Hi Louis
I really appreciate the help you are giving me.
Am I right in thinking that 'repair' should not affect installed software - ie stuff/apps already installed should remain untouched?
Although all is backed up some of my installations would be hard work to reinstall.
All is strictly legit but some of their installation keys were obtained by visiting sites (eg GiveAwayofTheDay).
Do you think my apps should remain unaffected by the repair?

Giles

#15 hamluis

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:40 PM

A repair install preserves your applications and data files, just as they are.

The problem with a repair install is that positive/desired results are not a given, it's just an attempt to repair that may not be successful.

In which case, my next suggestion would be a clean install.

Louis




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