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Removing a Hard Drive, Master/Slave problems


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#1 Apocalypse_666

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 10:51 AM

Hi all!
I'm having a bit of trouble. I have a computer that has two harddrives in it, a 60 gb and a 250 gb one, which I believe are both ATA hard drives. Now recently, I reinstalled this PC completely, and I'd like to use the 250 gb hard drive for some other purpose. I installed windows and all my programmes on the 60 gb drive (shown in windows as drive C). Now when I try to remove the other hard disk however, the pc won't boot, saying something about master/slave issues or something like that (I could look up the exact error if you want). I tried switching all the plugs/cables inside the computer around, and tried changing the settings in the BIOS, but to no avail.
So:
-Removing drive D gives master/slave error
-Removing drive C gives "No OS found" error

How to get it out?!
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Apoc
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#2 tg1911

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 11:08 AM

Do you have the jumper, on the back of the 60GB drive, set to Master?
Is it connected to the end connector, on the ribbon cable?

Edited by tg1911, 19 October 2008 - 11:09 AM.

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#3 Apocalypse_666

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 11:11 AM

Well, I don't know...
But, now that I think about it, probably yes, cos this PC has run with only this hard disk in it, and I for sure have never changed any jumpers...
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#4 tg1911

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 11:19 AM

Check the back of the harddrive, to be sure.
You'll see a set of 3 pins [:::] labeled CS (Cable Select), SL (Slave), and MA (Master), with a plastic jumper on one of the sets.
If it's not already there, pull the jumper, and put it on the MA pins.

Also, is the harddrive connected to the last/end connector, on the cable?

Edited by tg1911, 19 October 2008 - 11:19 AM.

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#5 hamluis

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 11:26 AM

If you have both drives on the same cable...they both must use either CS settings...or the Master/Slave settings.

For several years now, drives come with the default setting of CS, rather than Master/Slave settings.

Either set of settings works, but you must use the same set on a pair of drives connected to the motherboard via the same cable.

Louis

#6 Apocalypse_666

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 11:31 AM

Okay, I took a look inside again and discovered that the 60 gb drive is not an ATA but an IDE drive, with the jumpers on the left-most pins (which is probably model specific, but just in case). I removed the 250 gb drive, plugged the last/end connector into the 60 gb drive and turned it on, but now the pc seems to hang at a very early stage (there's this Dell screen with a loading bar that fills up, but nothing happens when it's done).
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#7 dc3

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 11:53 AM

There seems to be a little bit of confusion regarding terminology. ATA and PATA both refer to the specific type of drives, both of these are connected to the IDE (ribbon cable) terminal on the motherboard. The best way to connect two drives on the same IDE cable is as Master and Slave. If you are still confused, this tutorial may help clear up your questions.

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#8 Apocalypse_666

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 12:32 PM

Okay, I get it now. So, does anyone have any suggestion why my HD with Windows installed on it with the jumpers on CS and the master-connector plugged in will not boot?
Don't worry my fat friend, I will be cleaning in the bathroom...

#9 hamluis

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 01:43 PM

Is there anything else on the cable, other than the one hard drive?

Does the BIOS currently reflect the single 60GB drive as the primary...and are your BIOS settings such that you are booting from the correct drive?

Settings in the BIOS vary...some adjust automatically when drives are changed, older ones don't necessarily do that and may have to be changed manually to reflect current drives.

If your BIOS reflects the drives properly...and you have the jumpers properly set and drive attached...I don't know why it would not boot.

If I received a message re "master/slave settings" I would have to think that my jumpers were wrong for attached drives.

Louis

I just had a thought...if you are using 40-wire IDE cables, the C/S setting won't work.

Even though the standard for 80-wire cables has existed since 1998, some systems today still employ 40-wire cables.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/std_ATA4.htm

Edited by hamluis, 19 October 2008 - 01:54 PM.


#10 Sneakycyber

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 02:07 PM

What kind of HDD are we dealing with please provide the model numbers located on the stickers on the drives. Some drives Maxtor drive especially are notorious for having difficult jumpers I ran into this the other day on my on machine they require more than one jumper in some setups.

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#11 Apocalypse_666

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 03:09 PM

Okay, I think I might have an explanation, but it's not good. During the time of the installation of Windows, the 250 gb HD was the master, the 60 gb the slave. Now, when I turn the master into slave and the slave into the master, the system won't boot (it just says: press f1 to reboot or f2 to enter config menu). When I take out the 250 gb former master altogether, the pc just hangs before booting, I can't even get into the Boot Menu. So, does Windows automatically install some booting-stuff on the master drive when installing??
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#12 Apocalypse_666

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 03:11 PM

Western Digital Caviar WD600 and a Seagate 7200.10, both PATA, WD = 60 gb, Seagate = 250 gb.
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#13 hamluis

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 04:13 PM

Yes, indeed.

Your boot drive contains your boot.ini file...without which Windows cannot boot. If you physically detach that drive from the system...nothing happens.

And the BIOS controls the boot order...it tells the system where the boot/system drive and corresponding files should be.

Unless you also have a bootable O/S on the drive which remains...with all the right boot files...and you have manually changed the BIOS so that it can now be recognized as the boot drive.

Let's see if I understand...you installed XP on the 250GB drive...and you didn't install it on the 60GB drive, although your post says that you installed XP on the 60GB drive/partition.

Do you have XP installed on each drive?

What is it that you really want out of this setup? Tell us and we can get you there :thumbsup:.

Louis

#14 Apocalypse_666

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 04:28 PM

Haha, okay. To recap:
This PC has two hard drives: A 60 gb Western Digital one, and a 250 gb Seagate one, both PATA. This PC was recently reinstalled, and I've asked the person that installed the system not to use this 250 gb HD, as it is mine and I'd like it back. Now, the person installing has done what I've asked, so when windows is booted you can see that the D drive (the 250 gb one) is empty, and the C drive (the 60 gb one) contains all the (system)files.
However, during the installation of Windows XP, the 250 gb HD was plugged into the motherboard as the Master disk, while the 60 gb drive was on the slave-plug. Both drives have their jumpers on CS.
Now, I was not present at the time of the installation, so I'm not sure how the partitioning was done, but the guy installing the system is reasonably adept and he knows about partitions and such, so I don't expect there is anything weird going on there.

So, now, when everything is plugged in the way it was, I can see in the BIOS menu that HD 1 (or 0 i'm not sure) is the 250 gb one, and HD2 (or 1 if the first was 0) is the 60 gb one. However, if I remove the 250 gb drive, the system hangs even before booting and I can't access the BIOS menu. If I remove the 60 gb drive, it gets a little further, but it says it can't find any OS files. When I switch the drives around, making 250 gb slave and 60 gb master, it gets past the initial start up but hangs immediatly after, giving me the option to reboot with F1 or to open the BIOS menu with F2. When opening the BIOS menu I can see that HD 1/0 is now the 60 gb one, and HD 2/1 is the 250 gb one...


So! Who has a clue? Can it be helped??
Thanks in advance!
Apoc
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#15 Sneakycyber

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 05:39 PM

Have you tried after removing the 250gb drive changing the jumpers on the 60 to master and make sure its on the END of the cable.

Chad Mockensturm 

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