Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Vista Ultimate "back-up And Restore Image"


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 six-h

six-h

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 28 August 2008 - 04:53 PM

When I had "XP", I relied on Acronis True Image to keep my OS, Software and everything safe!

This new feature in Ultimate, has been confusing, having read your tutorial on it, I'm plesantly pleased that it seems I don't need to buy True Image 11.
(Though I feel somewhat disloyal to Acronis who have given me much peace of mind over the years!)

Since I always believed that you could not "Image" an Operating System from within that Operating System, I am still somewhat unsure that this facility in "Ultimate" will in fact give me a complete image, as True image used to in "XP".
What if I can't Boot into Windows?
With True Image, I had a "Bootdisk" that I could use, Is there a similar provision in Vista's "Back-up and Restore"?

Thanks

six-h

BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


m

#2 usasma

usasma

    Still visually handicapped (avatar is memory developed by my Dad


  • BSOD Kernel Dump Expert
  • 25,073 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern CT, USA
  • Local time:07:47 AM

Posted 28 August 2008 - 05:04 PM

Although I haven't used the "imaging" facility in Vista, I can answer a few questions about it (I still use Acronis True Image).
The backup image that you create is stored elsewhere - just as with Acronis. The boot disk is your Vista DVD - or the Startup Repair function in the F8 menu - just boot into Startup Repair and one of the options will be Windows Complete PC Restore.

Then, you'll point the dialog at the location of the stored image and it'll restore it. As with any backup/image utility, it's wise to verify that you can reinstall the image (uncorrupted) before you have to rely on it in a time of stress. Here's a link to the restore tutorial: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/windows-vista-complete-pc-restore/
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 28 August 2008 - 05:21 PM

WOW! John,
You must be able to type faster than my poor little two fingered attemts!
I had hardly finished the post, and you came right back with a reply!

Yes, in my XP days, I bought a 320GB external disk to store Acronis Images on, and intend to continue using that,
despite having this cavernous 500GB drive. lol

Your response raises two further questions.

1) How to ensure that the image created is OK?

Does Vista's imaging tool include a "Validating" facility as with Acronis?

2) Since I have neither "DVD" nor a "Restore sector", how could I restore an image if I can't boot into Windows?

In that situation, am I "goosed"?

six-h

#4 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 28 August 2008 - 06:09 PM

John,
Having re-read the tutorial you pointed me to, and the other one on how to use Vista's Complete PC Backup and Restore utility, I think I'm "Goosed" either way!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that whenever you want to "restore" an image, regardless of whether you can or can't boot into "Windows", You need the installation disk, or a recovery sector on your HDD.

Looks as if I'll have to buy True Image 11 inspite of having the facility in Vista. :huh:

six-h

#5 usasma

usasma

    Still visually handicapped (avatar is memory developed by my Dad


  • BSOD Kernel Dump Expert
  • 25,073 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern CT, USA
  • Local time:07:47 AM

Posted 28 August 2008 - 06:28 PM

I don't trust verification tools having lost the image of my old laptop this way. I don't know what method that Vista uses for this (I've only used the tool once - back in the days when it was in beta - and didn't restore with it).

I believe that the only way to verify is to actually try the restore. If it works, you're fine - if it doesn't, at least you've done it under controlled conditions so the recovery will be less painful.

Some systems will contain a Repair your system/computer option at the top of the options in the F8 menu (when going into Safe Mode).
Others have a recovery partition that you can only access if you create their recovery disks.
There's some links here for a Startup Repair disk - http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/blogs/usas...?showentry=1261
What's the exact make and model of your system?

Edited by usasma, 28 August 2008 - 06:29 PM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#6 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 11:53 AM

Hello again John,

Just before my old machine turned to a cinder, an aquaintence of mine that I got to know through doing some work for, (I retired a couple of years ago) kindly offered to "sort my problems"
Unfortunately my machine expired in his arms so to speak!
Feeling needlessly complicit in it's demise, he promised to help me build another one!
I would never have attempted this without his expertise, and I'm grateful for what he's done for me, but a little embarassed by the time and trouble he's gone to for me.
I don't want to further burden him or strain our working relationship by asking for some means of restoring the software that he's installed, that's why I'm thinking that maybe I should just buy a copy of Acronis True Image 11 for my own peace of mind, but it just seems a waste when the facility is already there!

This is the PC's spec: -

Motherboard:- Asus P5Q3 Deluxe WIFI-AP iP45
CPU:- Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
RAM:-Corsair 2GB PC3-10666 Twin DDR3
Graphics Card:-nVida GeForce 9600GT 512MB DDR3
HDD:- 500GB Samsung Spinpoint HD501LJ SATA2
PSU:- OCZ 600W Stealth
Case:- Gigabyte Triton.
O.S. Windows Vista Ultimate 32 bit, and Office 2007 Enterprise Edition.

six-h

#7 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 12:08 PM

Back again John!

I've just been reading the information in the link you posted, and also the onward links from that!

As I've said, I'm not technical, and most of what I've read has gone over my head!

The message I'm getting is that the recovery disk they are offering for download still needs a "Recovery Sector" to interact with.

In which case, I can't use it as I have neither a recovery sector nor a recovery disk, just the original installation.

- Can I??

six-h

#8 usasma

usasma

    Still visually handicapped (avatar is memory developed by my Dad


  • BSOD Kernel Dump Expert
  • 25,073 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern CT, USA
  • Local time:07:47 AM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 03:15 PM

It all depends on how much you want this backup/image. You can try the Windows program and it should work for you - but since I had problems with it, I'll stick with Acronis (FWIW - I'm a beta tester for Acronis).

True Image Home v11 is a good program that works well with Vista - but will it be compatible with Windows 7? I dunno - it depends on what Microsoft decides to do with Windows 7.

The recovery disks contained in my link will enable you to get to the section of the startup where you can perform a "Windows Complete PC Restore" - then it'll depend on you having the restore image stored in a place that's accessible to the program. But, since your friend installed the Vista on your system, he should be able to easily give you a copy of the bootable Vista DVD and you'll avoid the hassles of downloading the ISO's via a torrent and then burning them with an ISO burner program to a DVD.

There are other free options available here: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic3616.html
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#9 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 03:52 PM

HI John,

Wow!, you do some good work with Acronis!

It all depends on how much you want this backup/image. You can try the Windows program and it should work for you - but since I had problems with it, I'll stick with Acronis (FWIW - I'm a beta tester for Acronis).


Call me a pessimist!
It's an outlook borne of frequent disappointment at the gap between what software promises to deliver, and what actually happens!

I have relied on True Image 8 for several years, and always checked "Verify Image" before storing it as my "get out of jail free" card!
I've never had to use an image, but always got that sneaking feeling that if needed, it might let me down in spite of verification!

My confidence in Acronis comes from the ease with which the interface works, and how smoothly the program seems to work.
In addition, their helpdeskstaff are amazing!
They truly deserve their good reputation.

Don't think I need to worry about W7 compatibility, I don't think I'll live that long! lol

The recovery disks contained in my link will enable you to get to the section of the startup where you can perform a "Windows Complete PC Restore" - then it'll depend on you having the restore image stored in a place that's accessible to the program.


Even without a recovery partition, or disk...or having to resort to DOS (I've no idea about comand line instructions!)?

since your friend installed the Vista on your system, he should be able to easily give you a copy of the bootable Vista DVD


Is that the "Installation disk"?
Is he allowed to copy it?
I don't like asking him, 'cos he's been so kind, and as I understand, he has an allocation of several licences for his business, and because I do work for him on an ad-hoc basis, he has put my installation on one of those.
It's all above board, but I don't want to make him feel uncomfortable by having to refuse my request if he feels that it might cause him problems in his business.
Similarly, I don't want to become a nuiscence if I need to do a re-install/repair, leaving him thinking "Oh God, what have I taken on here!"

six-h

#10 usasma

usasma

    Still visually handicapped (avatar is memory developed by my Dad


  • BSOD Kernel Dump Expert
  • 25,073 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern CT, USA
  • Local time:07:47 AM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 04:07 PM

I only sporadically test my images - but my system is setup in such a way that the lack of a good image won't keep me down for long. I've probably restored 10 or 15 times using Acronis and only had one issue (and that was because I deleted the partition that the image was on - and then tried to recover it - and it was on an older Toshiba laptop that didn't like Acronis in anything but Acronis Safe Mode).

Verifying the image is a good thing to do - but the "litmus" test is to actually do a restore. There's too many variables between the verified image and the actual restore to take it as a given that it's gonna work.

If you use the Windows Complete PC Backup to backup the entire hard drive - then the Windows Complete PC Restore should be capable of restoring it (all the above caveats still apply). To access this you'll need a bootable DVD in the event that you cannot access Windows to actually do the restore - that's where the downloaded/bootable disk comes in.

Since you have a copy of Vista installed on your system (and we presume that it's a legal installation), then you should have access to the installation media in case your copy ever dies. Copying Windows Vista DVD's probably isn't truly 100% legal - but it's one of those things that's often overlooked as long as you're using a legitimate Product Key when installing it. A lot of this is determined by what your friend did in obtaining and installing Windows Vista for you.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#11 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 05:13 PM

Thanks John,

How I wish that I was as computer literate as you!
If I had a restore from image faliure, it would floor me completely!
Probably why I've not had the balls to do a trial! lol

Since you have a copy of Vista installed on your system (and we presume that it's a legal installation), then you should have access to the installation media in case your copy ever dies. Copying Windows Vista DVD's probably isn't truly 100% legal - but it's one of those things that's often overlooked as long as you're using a legitimate Product Key when installing it. A lot of this is determined by what your friend did in obtaining and installing Windows Vista for you.


No worries there, it's a legal copy OK, but when I ask him about making an image, he recons it's not necessary, he has such faith in the stability of Vista that he says "back-ups are all you need". He has also said "don't worry, if you need to re-install, I'll do it for you!"
But as I say, I don't want to be a nuiscence, especially since he is overseas quite a lot, and when home has more to do than run around after me!
In any case I would feel more independent if I could have some control over my destiny, so to speak.
I might raise the question with him but otherwise, True Image 11 seems to be the answer.

Just you make sure that it's reliable!.....I'm counting on you!

Thanks for all your advice, its been most helpful.

six-h

#12 usasma

usasma

    Still visually handicapped (avatar is memory developed by my Dad


  • BSOD Kernel Dump Expert
  • 25,073 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern CT, USA
  • Local time:07:47 AM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 05:45 PM

I'm not all that computer literate - just got a lot of experience for doing this constantly for the past 10 years or so! :huh:

He has also said "don't worry, if you need to re-install, I'll do it for you!"

So what's gonna happen if he's overseas when you need a reinstall?
I understand your not wanting to be a nuisance - but at what cost to yourself?

Anyhow, I'd suggest that your top priority would be locating a Vista disk to have on hand "just in case". Also, I'd use this free program to get your license numbers (product keys) for the Vista and the Office programs (they're more valuable than the CD's): http://www.gtopala.com/index.html

But, until that happens, I'd either investigate the free options that I mentioned above - or I'd rely on Acronis to help me out. One good feature of v11 is that it can create an automated routine on your hard drive so that you can boot to the Acronis SecureZone and recover your system from the boot (rather than having to insert an Acronis boot CD, boot from it, and manually launch the restoration). It's sort of like the major PC manufacturer's recovery partition - but it saves your stuff as it was when you made the image.

So, IMO, I'd go with Acronis because you're familiar with it, and the new version has some additional tools that you may find handy. The Windows Complete PC Backup is certainly an option if you want to save money - but do a google search on it before you commit to it. There's lot's of war stories out there about it.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#13 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 29 August 2008 - 07:59 PM

Hi John,

So what's gonna happen if he's overseas when you need a reinstall?
I understand your not wanting to be a nuisance - but at what cost to yourself?


My thoughts exactly!
Though I could live without my PC for a week or so, I don't want to be sat on his doorstep waiting like an impatient pooch!
Think I'll have to bite the bullet, and ask him outright for a copy disk, but I'll have to pick my timing!

Anyhow, I'd suggest that your top priority would be locating a Vista disk to have on hand "just in case". Also, I'd use this free program to get your license numbers (product keys) for the Vista and the Office programs (they're more valuable than the CD's)


Don't know what I'm doing really, but isn't the product key shown in "Computer>System", there's a section at the bottom on mine headed "Windows activation", says "Windows is activated", then shows the "Product Key", and a shield icon labeled "Change product key", and the "Genuine software" monika!

Is that the info you refer to? If so, I'll make a hard copy note of it. (Hope I can remember where I write it!) lol

I don't know if there is a similar screen to display the Key for Office 2007, I've had a look at the properties screens for it, but can't see any reference like the computer "system" screen, so I suppose that's where the software you link to comes in.

But, until that happens, I'd either investigate the free options that I mentioned above - or I'd rely on Acronis to help me out. One good feature of v11 is that it can create an automated routine on your hard drive so that you can boot to the Acronis SecureZone and recover your system from the boot (rather than having to insert an Acronis boot CD, boot from it, and manually launch the restoration). It's sort of like the major PC manufacturer's recovery partition - but it saves your stuff as it was when you made the image.


For the sake of fifty Dollars, I think I'll invest in Acronis! (when I can scrape it together!)
This is the trouble with moving up to Vista, the hidden cost of upgrading software, and finding that my scanner that is perfectly serviceable won't talk to Vista!
This wan't a planned upgrade, and it's been quite a strain on my finances in spite of my friend's kindness!
The PC bits cost me $1000, and that cleaned me out at least till Christmas. So True Image and a new scanner will have to go on my wish list till then!

I think I'll have to ask you for a "teach in" on Acronis 11 when I've got it, 'cos you've lost me with the features a bit there!

The Windows Complete PC Backup is certainly an option if you want to save money - but do a google search on it before you commit to it. There's lot's of war stories out there about it.


That sounds more like a warning than a recommendation!!
Think I'll take the hint!

So, my priorities are,
1) Get the product keys (with the help of your link)
2) Ask (respectfully) for a copy installation disk. (Will Vista and Office both be on the one disk, or will they be seperate?)
3) Save up and buy ATI 11.

All bases covered!!

six-h

#14 usasma

usasma

    Still visually handicapped (avatar is memory developed by my Dad


  • BSOD Kernel Dump Expert
  • 25,073 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern CT, USA
  • Local time:07:47 AM

Posted 30 August 2008 - 06:02 AM

Use the SIW program and look under Licenses for all the keys that are registered with the system.

Maybe you can get a copy of the Vista disk from another person? Vista is on one disk, and Office will be on a separate one.

I haven't had a bunch of luck with Product Keys and Office - but you can usually download the trial version and it'll let you put in the product key to validate it. I wonder if this is a copy from your friend's office - and, as such it may be a Volume License Key (which is a whole 'nother set of issues).

You can still use the Windows Complete PC Backup until then (it can't hurt, and it may save you some grief if the system goes down before you can purchase the Acronis).
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#15 six-h

six-h
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:47 PM

Posted 01 September 2008 - 10:52 AM

Thanks John,

I think I'll ask my friend outright if he'd be comfortable in giving me a copy of the disks.
If not, I'll buy True Image 11 for my own peace of mind, and if something happens that TI 11 can't fix, then I'll have to make a nuiscence of myself by asking him to come over and do a re-install!

as such it may be a Volume License Key (which is a whole 'nother set of issues).

:huh:
That sounds ominous!
What do you mean?

six-h




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users