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European Army


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#1 thelittleduck

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 02:58 PM

One of the ideas for creating a closer Europe is the creation of a European Army. I am not talking about the Rapid Response Force which will consist of 60,000 soldiers, but a giant, singular military entity.

There are obvious problems in creating this military. Language barriers and the many military equipment development companies from the different countries are but two.

The European Army, if it ever happens, would cause friction with the US which I think is what some Europeans want.

For this reason I am against it's creation as I think are most of the people from the UK.

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#2 JohnWho

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 07:11 PM

I'm wondering if the primary supporters of this plan are the ones who would profit the most by the production and sale of military equipment.

Just wondering.


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#3 thelittleduck

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 07:39 PM

I'm wondering if the primary supporters of this plan are the ones who would profit the most by the production and sale of military equipment.

Just wondering.


It's a possibility of course, but the rapid response force is to be made up of current equipment and forces, and so there would be no increase in arms production.

I think any future Euro army would be made by countries allocating most, if not all of there current defense budget. Nearly all current troops would probably have to be a part of the army.

I can see no pratical need for the army. It is said by some that the army is needed to ensure that Europe dosen't start fighting amongst themselves again.

Here is what Angela Merkel said in 2007:

This is from an interview with timesonline. Won't link to it because of warnings of adware from Siteadvisor users.

Angela Merkel got Europe’s 50th birthday weekend off to a controversial start yesterday when she said that the creation of a European army should be a key goal in its next 50 years.

The German Chancellor added hastily that she did not want to steer Europe towards a federal superstate. But her words ignited a simmering row about the relationship between Nato and the growing number of small EU military missions.

Mrs Merkel said that peace could not be taken for granted despite Western Europe’s longest period without internal conflict and suggested that a common army could help to bind countries closer together. Her suggestion was shot down immediately by Britain, which strongly opposes the creation of a rival organisation to Nato, although it does support the limited EU joint rapid reaction units sent to help out in crisis areas such as Aceh, hit by the 2005 tsunami.



I just don't think it's needed.

#4 m0le

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 05:32 AM

Most definitely against it. As an Englishman (we don't really call ourselves Brits) the beauracracy of forty three countries' political arms would kill it before it began.

Uniting separate countries' armies when necessary worked perfectly well in two world wars.

Typical Euro babble from people paid to talk
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#5 thelittleduck

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 07:10 AM

A reply! Thank you m0le.

Typical Euro babble from people paid to talk.


Though I agree with that, if this army ever formed, it would cause tension with the US and cause others to tremble. Think of the past of certain European countries, especially ourselves, France and Germany.

Of course, this past doesn't mean anything in the slightest about intentions of the future but certain people will not see it like that.

#6 Pandy

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:14 AM

Though I agree with that, if this army ever formed, it would cause tension with the US and cause others to tremble.


Pretty big if, I think.

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#7 m0le

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:34 AM

Sounds like we all agree that's it's a very bad idea historically, logistically and politically.

Expect it to be announced by the EU any day now :thumbsup:
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#8 thelittleduck

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:38 AM

Pretty big if, I think.


Maybe, but don't underestimate those, and there are still many, who wish for a Federal Europe.


Expect it to be announced by the EU any day now

:flowers:

:thumbsup:

Edited by KingOfIdiocy, 29 July 2008 - 09:40 AM.


#9 m0le

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:40 AM

Okay, that's a much better emoticon than mine.

You win.

:thumbsup:
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#10 Budapest

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 05:22 PM

Who is proposing this "giant, singular military entity"? I read last month that a Polish politician called for the building of a European Army, but I understood that what he meant by that was beefing up the rapid reaction forces. I haven't really seen anything else in the press about it.
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#11 thelittleduck

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 06:01 PM

Who is proposing this "giant, singular military entity"?



Well, there is Angela Merkel, as stated in the 3rd post. It has always been lauded by Valéry Giscard d’Estaing.

#12 Budapest

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 06:46 PM

Has there been any concrete proposals on what this army would consist of and what the administrative structure would look like?

Personally I can't really see any huge benefit to a European Army and I can't see all the member countries agreeing on it anyway. Although, if all they're talking about is a scaled up version of the rapid reaction forces that's a different thing.
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#13 thelittleduck

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 06:59 PM

Has there been any concrete proposals on what this army would consist of and what the administrative structure would look like?


No, as of yet anyway.


though, if all they're talking about is a scaled up version of the rapid reaction forces that's a different
thing.


Be could it then be a case of 'Let's scale it up some more, a little more, more, just a little more', and so on?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/07/eu.france

This may be a sign of things to come.


Everyone so far are agreeing it's a bad idea.

Edited by KingOfIdiocy, 29 July 2008 - 07:00 PM.


#14 Budapest

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 07:33 PM

I guess that the permanent operational headquarters in Brussels will have to be put on hold now that the reform treaty is dead (well...dead for now anyway).
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it.

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#15 woodyblade

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 04:39 PM

Who is proposing this "giant, singular military entity"?

Well, there is Angela Merkel, as stated in the 3rd post. It has always been lauded by Valéry Giscard d’Estaing.


Just seen this thread so will put my 2 cents in.

Trust a German to want to make a European Army they just want us British in it, their not bothered about France and Italy (Who are Surrender Monkeys). The Germans just don't want to be beaten again.

I wouldn't want it created at all, I rather we focus on our own Army, maybe recruit a few more Troops, or take a leaf from the French Books and make a Foreign Legion, "British Foreign Legion" got a ring to it :thumbsup: and also the Navy a bit as well it needs a bit of a Upgrade. The Airforce in my Opinion just needs a few more Pilots and Fighter Jets, maybe the new Euro Fighters.




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