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Noob At Starcraft


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#1 TelMeDragon

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 04:25 PM

I'm not really sure if this topic goes here, but it's a game so meh i guess.

Anyways, do you guys know what way I should start out playing starcraft? I want to get better, but when I first played my cousin showed me all the cheats and he really killed a learning opportunity. So now I wish to redeem myself for all of those years, but I do not know how to start out learning. Many have suggested watching pros at work, but If i watch i don't really understand what's going on.

I've tried to play 1v1 against the computer, Zerg is easy, but then I cannot beat the Terrans or Protoss. I die within a few minutes because of their early rush, and if i survive any longer, I either die in the next rushes, or can't penetrate his base.

I talked to my friend about this, and he says you gotta micro to win in battles, but I cannot do that because I'm fairly new to this. So any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
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#2 nigglesnush85

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 05:48 AM

Hello TelMeDragon,

Starcraft is a great game. I have beaten the game several times (without cheats) and can offer three main suggestions for you.

1 pick the right team in instant action. Terran is adaptive, Protos are powerfull but expensive, zerg are cheap and nasty.
2 analyze the terrain and start building resource collectors (build loads, as each one is built, assign it to a resource.)
3 now that you have money, you need to think about protection. (there are many ways of doing this depends on what team you select)

Regarding micro in battles, this is true in some cases, as the typical A.I. for your team is to shoot the nearest thing and don't stop however you may need to allocate more firepower to a specific target as some units are useless without support.

If you need more info let me know.
Regards,

Alan.

#3 TelMeDragon

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 07:58 PM

I've decided to go with Zerg, and have gotten used to the basic Hotkeys (drones, lings, hydras etc.). I also have somewhat of a build order that I like to use.

I read somewhere on a guide that static defenses shouldn't be relied on so I only build 1 or 2 sunkens at my base. I can usually stop the Computer's first rush, albeit M&M with some Firebats or Zealot rush. Then I can also stop the second rush with Seige Tanks/Dragoons. At the third rush is my loss usually because it's a fleet of somekind which I have no counter to. I have no clue what to do. Between all these rushes I attempt to attack him but usually fail.

For resources, I use my natural, natural expansion, and then another base. 3 Extractors I heard was good.

Whenever I try to attack I usually have a grouped composed of Zerglings, Hydralisks, and a few Lurkers (1-3). They usually get stopped by a Seige Tank + Goliath combo, with Wraiths finishing me off. I don't really like to use Air forces, and that's probably my main downfall as the last rush is usually a fleet.

How do I penetrate his base? Is it timing or what? i have not been able to really get inside to wreak havoc.


Sorry it's so jumbled i'm just writing what comes to my mind first. I feel like i'm missing something too...
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#4 nigglesnush85

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:41 AM

You have the basics taken care of, all that is needed is some advanced tactics.
The zerg are a good team with many advantages such as low build cost. Your first step is base defences to this end you will need to build a combination of sunken(for ground based) and spore colonies(for air based) remember that the spore can't attack ground units.

This will provide you with a basic defence, you need to place them fairly close together to protect each other. You will need to compliment this defence with a mobile army consisting of zerglings and hydralisks, place the zerglings near to the base defences and keep the hydralisks back to deal with the enemies larger weapons.

I have always found that the best time to attack is right after the enemy has lanuched an attack, this means that most of their base will be empty.
During the game you should take some time to explore the map and learn where the opposing team is hiding.
Before you attack you will want to pick the force carefully. you will need a force comprising of

large ammounts of zerglings,
good quantity of hydralisks
If you can afford it, an ultralisk or two
if you don't like air forces, then build a few scourges these will take care of air targets.

Always leave behind in your base a force of some kind in case things don't work out as well as hoped.

Assigning groups is vital for an orginised attack. CTRL+1 etc
Regards,

Alan.

#5 TelMeDragon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 04:26 PM

I guess I will ignore the guy that said static defenses shouldn't be used too much.

I usually do find the opposing team near the beginning of the game but then I don't scout anymore after that.

A question about attacking, should I rally my forces close to his base then send them in?

I usually use the CTRL+# for hatcheries to make units while in battle, which should i do?

Can I post up a replay and you can watch and see what I do to criticize me?
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#6 nigglesnush85

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 04:54 PM

With regard to attacking If you rally your forces close to the target base the enemy can in some cases come out of their base and ruin your attack force before it is ready to attack.

Using the CTRL+# for units is probably a better idea as you can then control your forces within seconds.

You can post a replay if you want.
Regards,

Alan.

#7 TelMeDragon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 06:42 PM

Ok thank you, here's the last game I played

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/27/56...T%20Victory.rep


Notes: I only won cause I turtled enough that he got resource starved =(. It sucks and doesn't feel too good, please tell me what I could've done better.
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#8 nigglesnush85

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 08:39 AM

I have just finished watching the replay of your game and have made some observations.

1. During the opening stage of the game, you need more drones on resource collection. try to get the vespane extractor by around 2 mins

2. I noticed that you sent your first overlord straight to the terran base. I would advise using it to scan your own base and surroundings first. and put the overlords that you create on the edge of your base, this will provide an early warning system. the enemy can follow your scouting overlords to your own base.

3. I find that 3 drones is enough for a close extractor.

4. at around the 3 mins mark, you should be looking for tactical positions for your sunken colonies, maybe a few zerglings.

5. At the bottom of your base, you build a hatchery this is a good move, but should be furthur from the ramp as it is in danger of being attacked.

6. You got attacked at 7 mins by the terran force, this was mainly repelled due to your lurkers, you need to have more units at the enterance.

7. I notice that you don't have any Air defences around the top base, One of my favourite tactics is to fly in some wraiths,battlecruisers,scouts etc right into the resource area unopposed this will significantly reduce your ability to fight. A few scourges over the hatchery or spore colonies near the perimiter will help.

8. Grouping your forces with hotkeys CTRL+# will reduce losses as they will be more responsive to your commands,

9. before attacking any target, make sure you have a sizable force to do the job and a backup force to be used to attack the enemies counter attack.

10. the enemy used a lure and attack method to draw your forces from the target by running away luring them straight to a bunker filled mith marines.
(the enemy will fall for this trick too)

11. target priority is crucial here an example is that near the hostile base, at 38 mins there is a bunker with marines guarding some supply depots your force attacks the depots while being attacked by the bunker. attack hostile targets first then production buildings then anything that is left.

12. During the battle, you had a significant force guarding your main base. While this is good you could use just over half for offensive rather than defensive.

Overall, it was a good game, you expanded the base which is the hardest thing to do, you responded to all the events in an appropriate manner and you won.
I would say that your battle stratagy is cautious in that you fall back too soon, during a battle in SC you need to be very aggresive when attacking.

You did very well in my opinion. If you have any more replays, I would gladly look at them.
Regards,

Alan.

#9 TelMeDragon

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 05:46 PM

I have just finished watching the replay of your game and have made some observations.

1. I needed more Drones? I thought it was only 1 drone per patch, so then i didn't think I'd need more than 12 at most at a whole mineral thingy. Extractor in 2 mins will be my goal from now on =)

2. I didn't know his base was there, whenever I play Lost Temple, i send it to all four of the naturals.

3. People say 3 or 4, I just went with four cause I didn't know what to do with him >_>.

4. Those points would usually be at the ramp right? Do you know any certain way to put them? I usually do some sort of semicircle thingy but try to have some space for my units to get through.

5. I was thinking about that, but i thought closer = faster troup gather, thanks.

6. I really depend on my lurkers, because I can't micro my lings and hydras effectively to take down an M&M Firebat, if you know how to position my troops then please tell me.

7. I did get attacked there, but suprisingly not by a large force, so I just stuck a few hydras and a Ovie there. Another suprising fact was the lack of Sci-Vessels and BattleCruisers, if he made those I probably would've lost.

8. I understand that this is way better than CTRL+# my hatches, but my SC is retarded and I can't click back to base really fast, it keeps letting me click up to 1/4th of the mini map and then no more.

9. The thing is, I'm extremely afraid of attacking, in fear he will go straight for my base with a larger force.

10. I did that a few times with my lurkers, but I was probably lured because my attention was focused elsewhere.

11. I did notice that, but felt extremely cocky with dark swarm up, won't happen again.

12. What do you think is an adequate enough group to defend and what is it compiled of?

The game didn't feel too satisfying to me because I turtled a lot, and I was suprised at the fact that he didn't make some troops like the sci-vessel and battlecruisers, but I guess i could learn from this victory, thanks for your advice.

I'll make some more, thanks for taking the time out to read and watch these, I realize they are quite long >_>.
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#10 nigglesnush85

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 05:42 AM

with point 1, I would advise more drones, you are correct that there can only be one on each patch, however, the drones constantly move back and forth so having 3-4 extra will boost performance.

with point 3, when the vespane is that close you only can use 3 drones.

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point 5 I would place the hatchery behing the sunken colonies just to be safe.

try the following groupings...

CTRL+1 zergling group 1
CTRL+2 zergling group 2
CTRL+3 Hydralisk group 1
CTRL+4 Hydralisk group 2
CTRL+5 mutalisk group 1
CTRL+0 hatchery 1
CTRL+9 hatchery 2

points 9 and 12, never be affraid of attacking, it is true that the enemy may launch a counter attack, but in most cases the enemy will be too busy repelling your attack to launch a counter attack on your base.

The force left at the base vary in size depending on how many sunken or spore colonies you have. I would leave some mutalisks behind, 8-10 hydralisks, around 16 zerglings. but it all depends on your base size and how big the enemy is. But the force you left at your base could have destroyed a large protos base.

I look forwards to your next replay.
Regards,

Alan.

#11 TelMeDragon

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 04:23 PM

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/27/56.../ZvT%20loss.rep

here it is, this is what happens when I try to play aggressively, it just doesn't work for me. I'm sure I did something wrong though.
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#12 nigglesnush85

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 06:11 PM

I watched the replay, did you save the game before you exited?

I did notice that your attacks were organised and it looked like you had made groups for each unit type. There are two areas that need to be looked at,

1. You need more units in each attack especially at the end.
2. Targets need to be prioritised for example when you sent your mutalisks to attack the terran supply depot their turret open fired. When this happens, switch targets quickly to limit damage of your force. Always take out the shooting targets first then return for the rest.

If you saved the game, try building...
1-2 squads of guardians
1-2 squads of mutalisks
just 1or2 overlords
A sizeable ground force consisting of
1-2 squads of hydralisks
2-3 squads of zerglings
(Alter size of attack force if you can. more is better)

Select your ground force(s) for each squad press the attack croshair in the right hand pane and select the middle of the terran base. (make sure to click attack and select a blank area) the ground force will charge the ennemy and attack by themselves.
After you send your ground force off...
Tell your Guardians to do the same as the ground force by using the attack command only send the guardians to near the command centre.
You need to protect your guardians, select the mutalisks and use them to attack any hostile forces that attack the guardians.(use the overlords as detectors)

This should leave your enemy battling on two sides, and will struggle to allocate sufficient defence.

You are doing really well, :thumbsup: let me know how it turns out.
Regards,

Alan.

#13 TelMeDragon

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 06:23 PM

Sadly, I didn't save =(.

The thing with selecting a ground force to rush into the base for me is, the seige tank and the bunkers usually pick off all my units before i get inside.

EDIT: NVM i'll alternate defilers into using Swarm at the choke point.

Edited by TelMeDragon, 26 May 2008 - 06:23 PM.

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#14 nigglesnush85

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 06:31 PM

The thing I have found with Starcraft is that after every attack, the defences increase. When the defences get to a stage where your units can't get to the front door, you need to either add more units or do something that they are not prepared for. A couple of squads of air units may turn the tide in these situations.
Regards,

Alan.

#15 TelMeDragon

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 07:57 PM

I might turn to Ultras + Defilers to get through his door.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/27/560545/QWERTY.rep

Near the end, I attacked him, do you think that would've been a good opportunity to send in another force?
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