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#1 I_am_CanadianEh?

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 08:00 PM

Hi Everyone :huh:

I have 3 accounts on my Vista Home Premium machine. Two of them are administrator accounts (mine & my wife's). The other is my son's which is a standard account. My son cannot logon to his account. When he enters his password, it says, "Please wait" but then the screen goes black with only the mouse pointer showing. The hard drive continues to hum as if programs and drivers were loading but the screen remains black.

I tried CTRL:ALT:DEL, entered Task Manager, Run Task and tried to start the Explorer shell manually, but no luck.

The account worked fine just a few weeks ago. Nothing was changed on the computer other than the usual antivirus and Windows Updates. The other 2 accounts do not experience this problem.

I was thinking of deleting his account and create his new one fresh, but I would rather see if someone has a possible fix or solution in mind.

Any thoughts?
Thanks for your support. :huh:

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#2 usasma

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 08:06 PM

Try creating the new account and see if it behaves properly. You can always go into his account through your account (you may have to take ownership) in order to backup his stuff.

A Startup Repair may help: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/repair-windows-with-windows-startup-repair/
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 I_am_CanadianEh?

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 08:25 PM

I went into my account (which is an administrator account) and changed my son's from standard user to Admin. Then I logged off and had my son login to his new Admin account. He logged on no problem. I then logged off from his account and went back into my account to change my son's back to a Standard user.

The same problem occurred! He can only login when he has an admin account. :huh:

#4 usasma

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 08:38 PM

So it's a problem with the permissions when it tries to launch something that requires Administrative rights. Startup Repair isn't likely to fix it, but you'll have to try another standard account to see if this is a system wide problem - or if it's only with your son's account.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#5 I_am_CanadianEh?

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:48 PM

Next, my wife logged in and changed my account from Admin to Standard User. I tried to login...and succeeded....so it seems to be only a problem with my son's account when he's a standard user.

Here's my theory: a Windows update somehow corrupted all Standard users on the comp when it was applied. However, any admin accounts were not affected even if you change them to a standard user later on. Only standard users AT THE TIME OF THE UPDATE might have been affected.

It's just a hypothesis, but here's someone with the exact same issue....and look at the date of the entry:
http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPo...4&SiteID=17

This really has me stumped. I've had more problems with Vista on "permission issues" then anything else.

My box is fully patched and running Vista HP. Both SP1 pre-requisite updates have been installed and I'm not getting the endless reboot option.

#6 E-Mu

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 03:06 PM

Best thing to do is delete your sons account, when you do this you have the option of keeping his files, select this and they'll be stored in a folder on your desktop.
Then set him up a new account and set as a standard user as you had set, if he can login, transfer the folder from your desktop into his documents though the HDD and hey presto.

Failing that...... create a new account for him but set it with administrator rights, once set up, change to standard user and transfer the files as above
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#7 I_am_CanadianEh?

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 07:41 PM

OK, I deleted my son's account and saved his settings. Then, I created a new Standard account for him and here's what happened.

I tried to boot into his account. It first said "Please wait" and then "Preparing your Desktop". It remained on this screen for about 1 minute and then I got the following error:

"Windows mail could not start because MSOE.DLL could not be initialized"

It would only allow me to OK out of it, so I did. I then get a small window in the upper corner saying it is initializing a few other settings. Then, I get a blue background desktop with my mouse pointer.....and then nothing else. It stays stuck here.

So I did the CTRL, ALT, DEL thing and tried to start Explorer with the "Run, New Task" option. Nope! Thus, I logged off, booted into my account no problem, changed my son's account into an Administrator account and then had him logon. Tah-dah!! He got in no problem!!

Any ideas??

#8 usasma

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 06:47 AM

It would seem to me that there's still the permissions issue with one of the programs that are being used in the Standard User account.
I would try a new Standard User account without any of your son's settings - then start adding things until you encounter the error again. This should point out what application is at fault here.

Comparing the startups for your son's account with those of a Standard User (assuming that the Standard User account doesn't have the problem) will probably be the easiest route to take since this involved errors while he was logging in. You can use this free program for that: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysintern...s/Autoruns.mspx
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#9 E-Mu

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 07:33 AM

OK, I deleted my son's account and saved his settings. Then, I created a new Standard account for him and here's what happened.

When you created a new account im taking it was just set up through your login ame and then logged into?

Steve
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#10 I_am_CanadianEh?

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 07:44 AM

When you created a new account im taking it was just set up through your login ame and then logged into?


Yes, I logged on to my own admin account and deleted my son's account. Then I created a new Standard user account within mine. Logged out of mine and into my son's.

I'm going to try the Autoruns program later tonight but I might come back and ask for assistance. I'm not sure what to look for!

Thanks for the suggestions! :huh:

#11 usasma

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:39 AM

We're not quite sure of what to look for either! :huh: If the new account behaves the same as the old account (and you haven't imported the settings) - then you shouldn't be able to find anything. If the new account behaves differently than the old account (and you haven't imported the settings) - then you should be able to find a difference. That's where I'm hoping that you'll find something.

You can also check the startups in the Tools...Software Explorer menu of Windows Defender. I'd suggest that you compare those settings between the profiles also (if there is a difference in the behaviors). Otherwise, post a list of the startup programs and we'll see if we can figger out what the issue is.

BTW - is there anything in particular in your Administrator profiles that requests permission to elevate/give access to something? That may give us a clue as to what's doing this. I'm starting to think that this may be a program that's not Vista compatible - and that it doesn't behave well enough to leave clues.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#12 I_am_CanadianEh?

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 10:12 AM

The newly created standard user account behaved the same way as the deleted one. I did not import anything. As soon as I change it to an admin account, the problem goes away.

I will post a list of startup programs under my own Admin account, my wife's admin account, my son's account as an Administrator (which works) and my son's account as a Standard user (does not work).

I still think it's a Windows problem. I've noticed a lot of "black screen on Vista" issues in forum boards. There are variances on each problem but generally they all have 1 thing in common....only the mouse is visible on a black screen after logging in to an account.

Expect a very detailed posting from me tonight. :huh:

#13 usasma

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 10:20 AM

The black screen issue usually stems from either video driver corruption or some other corruption in the startup process. This problem seems to relate more to UAC than anything else. Have you tried temporarily disabling UAC to see if it still happens then?
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#14 Jacee

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 10:57 AM

MSOE.DLL = Microsoft Outlook Express Library ...
http://www.auditmypc.com/process/msoe.asp

Run a virus scan on your son's account, just to make sure it's not infected in some way.

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#15 I_am_CanadianEh?

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 12:30 PM

Video corruption? Hmm...OK, I think there's an update for my Video card. I'm using an ATI Radeon X1600 in a PCIe slot (16x). Video memory is 512MB. This was a store bought, retail card I purchased when I was preparing to upgrade to Vista. After I installed the OS, I updated the Video Card to the latest driver. I can't recall my last update, I'll have to check.

I'll look into that tonight and try different scenarios: uninstalling & re-installing the driver, rolling back to a previous driver or seeing if there's a new driver.

UAC

I turned off UAC right after installation (last Aug. '07). I have a fortress of security on my box and I trust it very much. In over 2 years, I only had 2 tracking cookies get through. This problem with my son's account is about 1 to 2 months old.

I've been trying to diagnose this:

This problem with Standard accounts only occurs on newly created Standard accounts and my son's account (which was deleted and then re-created). If I change my wife's and my own admin accounts to standard, the black screen does NOT occur.

Therefore, I think there is something in the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE hive that is telling Windows to deny some process to load during bootup w Standard accounts, which I think is the Explorer shell. Even after trying to run Explorer from CTRL, ALT, DEL, and selecting "File - New Task(RUN)" and typing explorer, it still doesn't load.

However, since the other Admin accounts don't experience this, then maybe there is something in HKEY_CURRENT_USER hive that over-rides the HKLM key that says: "Don't worry, your commands are not affected with these accounts...I've got them covered". So the HKLM key sets permissions for any NEW Standard accounts.

Does this make any sense? But what key should I look to?? I ain't touchin' the registry...it's a sea of landmines. Step on the wrong one...then I won't have this black screen problem anymore....I'll be taking the better part of the weekend to re-install. :huh:

Perhaps there are some tools which I can run that will look into the right areas for me?

More to follow tonight...I love a good mystery :huh:




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