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Poco Mail


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#1 ausman

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 06:03 PM

Hi

Has anyone had problems with Poco Mail email program with regard to being unable to permanently delete emails from inboxes. Mail just re-appears (sometimes corrupted) after deletion and compression of mailboxes.

Poco support is really puzzled about this and to date have been unable to help me.

I have tried un-installing and re-installing Poco from scratch but problem still exists.

Running XP Pro machine. have gone through the exercise of completley cleaning machine for viruses, trojons etc. - Hijackthis clean up you name it i've done it.

Would appreciate any help I can get, the problem has been going on for months now - my mail box is sort of ...... well huge :thumbsup:

Thanks

ausman

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#2 penmore

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 02:26 PM

Hi ausman,

I will close your other thread in the HJT Logs section and will continue to try and help you here. Before I spend sometime looking at the problem can you just confirm for me:
  • Is POCO mail a web browser email package like hotmail and yahoo mail?
  • If it is then what browser are you using and have you tried an alternative.
  • I think you said that it used to work ok then suddenly started with the problems you outlined. Can you remember whether you installed/uninstalled any programs at the time it started the mail reappearing?
  • If you know what programming language it is written in then that might help.
Thanks,
Peter

#3 ausman

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 12:10 AM

Hi Penmore

Thank you for your response.

To answer your query I have pasted a short technical comment about Poco Mail:-

1.Unlike some competing products, PocoMail doesn't use the Internet Explorer component to preview your HTML messages. Instead it uses an internal HTML viewer.
2.PocoMail does not understand VBScript or JavaScript, which are used to write email viruses.
3.PocoMail will not run PocoScript, its own scripting language, from messages you receive. While VBScript and JavaScript let a third-party control your mailer, PocoScript was designed to let you better control your mailer.

As for what language it's written in, I can't answer that for you.

Yes it did seem to be working ok at the start (when installed on my new machine using XP Pro). Have installed a number of upgrades of Poco Mail sinsce then at the request of Poco support to see if that fixed the problem - it didn't.

Have used Poco on my old Win98 machines for a long time with no problems whatsoever. It's a brilliant program really.

Poco support requested that I send them my Poco files for examination. They could not duplicate the problem.

I can't remember if I installed or uninstalled any programs at that time, however as previously mentioned I was hit with a couple of virsues around that time. They were removed without a hassle but nothing shows up now.

One thing I have noticed since updating XP by installing SP2 last week, is that when receiving new mail, after I have deleted all the messages from my inbox, the old mail re-appears it is corrupted and the new mail is mixed up in the mess. Poco is now becoming unusable. Have resorted to using Outlook Express to receive my mail - hopefully as a stop gap measure only. btw the deleted messages stay deleted.

It's a mess isn't it? :thumbsup:

ausman

#4 Papakid

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 02:28 AM

Hi ausman,

Hope you'll pardon the intrusion, just have a quick question for you. Do you have your email account set to delete mail on the servers or are copies left there? Are we correct to assume that you are getting your mail from your ISP's servers?

The thing about people

is they change

when they walk away.--Mipso


#5 ausman

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 03:54 AM

Hi Papakid

Thanks for your response - it is not an intrusion I appreciate any help I can get on this one.

Poco Mail allows you to view mail on the sever before downloading. It gives you the option of downloading and deleting or downloading and leaving.

I nealy always download and delete and only ever leave mail on the server on the odd accasion.

Thanks again for your response.

ausman

#6 penmore

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 06:18 AM

Hi ausman,

I've downloaded a copy of the software and have just been looking through some of the settings and options. I think Papakid shares my views on what might, perhaps be causing the problems with your emails. You say that your mail is now being deleted ok but your old mail is being corrupted and the new mail is mixed up (presume you mean not in date order of reciept) with your corrupted mail.

I'm just wondering what checks you went through with Poco support and whether they checked any of your settings. After my brief look at the software I would suggest that you check the following:
  • Have you configured Poco to use your email scanning software and is that configuration correct.
  • Which firewall are you using and if it's not the MS one have you disabled that.
  • The corruption could possibly be that for some reason Poco is creating backups and putting them in the same place as your existing emails. I'm also presuming that when you say the old mail re-appears you mean old mail that hasn't been deleted.
  • In the General Options tab, what settings do you have under the Automatic Backup section?

A note about mailbox compression: If you find that information in the index pane appears out of order or displays incorrectly, try compressing the mailbox (from the main menu - Mailbox > Compress mailbox). This will rebuild the mailbox index and correct the problem.


You could perhaps see if that makes any difference. :thumbsup:

Peter

#7 ausman

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 06:56 PM

Hi Penmore

Once again thank you for your response.


This is my daily scenario with Poco program:-

Load poco – all messages that were previously deleted re-appear in mailbox (at times I have noted that the messages can be corrupted).

Delete all messages again and compress mailbox – mailbox is empty. If I compress the mailbox again or close poco and load it again - all previously deleted messages re-appear.

Receiving mail into an empty mailbox – ok, if I leave the new messages there and close poco or compress the mailbox, all previously deleted messages re-appear and the new ones are out of date order and mixed up in the mess. I have to scroll through the old mail to find the latest messages.

With regard to Poco support – poco generates a log that can be sent to Poco support for their examination. I sent this to them at the beginning of the saga, they also requested that I send them my mailbox files which I did. They could not find a problem. They also suggested I delete the *.idx files in the program folder and the backup files which I did – problem still existed. According to Poco the idx files (index files) are restored when restarting Poco.

Poco’s last response to me (today) was to perform a complete re-install of the OS etc. This has been in my mind too but for me it is a last resort because of the work involved in doing this. I have backups but they will have the same problem. I don’t have an image of the initial OS installation. The main reason I haven’t gone down this track is that every other program on my machine (and there are a lot of them) work fine.


Your questions:-

1.Poco is configured to use my virus software – C:\Program files\Vcom\Fix-it\AVC md.exe.

2.I am using Zone Alarm Pro, Windows FW is turned off.

3.The old mail is the mail that has been deleted.

4.The automatic BU is configured to back up to another HD on computer – E:\Data BU\ Poco Mail.

Thank you once again for your help, it is very much appreciated.

ausman

#8 Papakid

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 03:02 AM

Hi ausman,
I'm sure penmore will be able to help you with this or at least give it a try. Since he has downloaded the trial. I've not run PocoMail myself and looking over the website it looks to have a lot of features that I know little or nothing about.

So for anyone who might have some experience with it and might have some ideas, let me link to some background info--the more someone knows about your problem the better.

Here's your thread in the Poco support forum:
http://www.pocosystems.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1644

And here's your HJT thread:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/ind...topic=12875&hl=

I've been mulling over what might be wrong and since you have done the basics of reinstalling I'm thinking it could be that it is not a problem with Poco alone, but maybe a conflict or problem with other programs on your system.

I don't know if this will help but here is something to try--I'm sure penmore will come up with some other ideas. In your answer to #4 above I'm assuming that that is your configuration for backups as set by PocoMail? Please confirm. Because in your HJT log I see you also have VCOM AutoSave running. Do you have it also set to backup your email? If so you might try disabling that and then try deleting your index files from PocoMail again and see if those corrupted emails come back.

According to Poco the idx files (index files) are restored when restarting Poco.

Perhaps somehow Poco is invoking the restore funtion of VCOM AutoSave. Worth a shot anyway. :thumbsup:

The thing about people

is they change

when they walk away.--Mipso


#9 ausman

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 07:39 AM

Thank's Papakid for your response.

You could be right about a conflict.

With regard to my email backups, I perform backups via the settings in poco, the backup points to a special folder on my backup data disk (E:). Have deleted this backup a few times to ascertain whether somehow this is causing a problem.

Vcom auto save is not configured to backup my email, it only backs up - My Documents. I have double checked to make sure my selections in Vcom auto save did not inadvertantly include poco files.

Have also disabled Vcom auto save at times to see if it was the cause of the problem. It doesn't seem to be.

Thanks again

ausman

#10 penmore

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Posted 20 March 2005 - 02:58 PM

Hi ausman,

The symptoms you described on your daily scenario were very helpful. I've been a bit short of time lately what with one thing and another and this is likely to continue until next Thursday before things get better. I did some research the other day and I would like to float some thoughts and ideas and perhaps let you look at the problem with these things in mind.

I have downlaoded all my Outlook mails and addresses onto Poco but cannot replicate the problem. I'm not running SP2, just have all my critical updates installed.

What you described sounds as if it is to do with the indexing and database. I had a little look further and lo and behold, Poco uses database files .mbx which are the same as those used by Outlook Express v4 at least. In Outlook Express when you delete an email it isn't actually cleared off the database until and if you close the application and you have an option ticked that says Purge deleted messages when leaving IMAP folders, if my memory serves me correctly.

I recently had a customer who had 2mb of deleted emails that were on the Outlook Express database but not showing in the software. I'm just wondering with the change to SP2 whether something has changed in the ops system or whether a later release of Poco doesn't have the Purge deleted messages setting set as standard when you imported the new version.

This link has some interesting stuff about OE5 some of which might relate to this problem: http://www.oehelp.com/ please look at it and try anything that might help clarify or resolve the problem.

In Outlook Express with mbx database folders it was possibly to manually delete and then re-create the same folder and thus get rid of the deleted files. I would be interested to know what happens if, instead of deleting the unwanted emails, you moved them to a newly created folder. If that works and they aren't reproduced in the original mail box then we could try a test and see if that clears the problem. If you can try moving them and letting me know the results, that will help. I would need to recheck the structure of the Poco database to make sure I can delete and recreate a specific mailbox or folder

I know you have said previously that you sent your database file to Poco support. Provided you have nothing on the emails that is confidential and you feel you can place your trust in me then I would be happy to take a copy of the file and just try running it on my version of Poco. This can wait until after we have checked the other things and are down to a last resort scenario.

Let me know anything you discover and how things are progressing.

#11 ausman

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 07:02 PM

Hi Penman

Thank you again for your last response. I too have been busy over the past week and haven’t had time to try and resolve the problem.

I have just re-installed Poco to upgrade to the new version 3.4 (released on the 22 Mar). I completely uninstalled the original version then installed the new one.

From the back-up I restored everything except the “Mail” (mail boxes).

I then proceeded to setup new mail boxes and sent and received a test message to each. Then deleted the test messages and compressed mailboxes. Closed Poco and then opened again - messages re-appeared.

The new “Mail Folder” is much smaller at this time – only has a few test messages in it, I can send you the new mailbox folder if you would like to play around with it.

I have noted the following on my machine :-

There are five files associated with each mailbox.

1. Dat file – This file has been associated with Nero program and is seen as a Video CD Movie file under “properties”. I have recently upgraded Nero and noted the change in the properties of dat files on my machine, looks like Nero wants all the dat files, haven’t worked out how to get them out of nero’s hands yet. The problem with Poco was evident way before the upgrade of Nero.

2. IDX file

3. Eudora Mailbox (this one seems a strange one not sure what this one is about ?) If I move them to another folder my mailboxes disappear.

4. ~ IDX file.

5. ~ MBX file.


As suggested in your reply I performed the following:-

Without deleting messages – moved all ~ MBX files to another folder. Opened poco – messages still there – deleted all messages – compressed all mailboxes – no messages - compress mailboxes a number of times – all mailboxes empty – poco has generated new .mbx files for each mailbox.

Close poco and open again – no messages. Send a test message to each main inbox (3 accounts) – open each message – delete each message (all messages deleted, did not compress mailboxes) – close poco and reopen – no messages – close poco again and reopen – all messages reappear as unread messages.

Delete all messages again but this time compress all mailboxes after deletion – close poco then reopen - messages reappear.

Where to now?

Thanks again for your help.

#12 penmore

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 03:10 PM

Hi ausman,

It's good feedback that you are giving but I still can't put my finger on it. Some more thoughts though:

1. Dat file – This file has been associated with Nero program and is seen as a Video CD Movie file under “properties”. I have recently upgraded Nero and noted the change in the properties of dat files on my machine, looks like Nero wants all the dat files, haven’t worked out how to get them out of nero’s hands yet. The problem with Poco was evident way before the upgrade of Nero.


The dat files look like they contain the settings for each mailbox. I wouldn't be too concerned about the file associations with Nero. It may be that Nero has just set them for it's self and they can always be changed.

2. IDX file


I have the IDX MDX ~IDX ~MDX files. I'm not sure what the ~ means but I think it could indicate that they are open but how that is when Poco mail is closed I'm not sure. I have two sets of idx and mdx files for one mailbox, one pair with the ~ and one set without. I suppose it's possible that if one copy is being held open and you delete mail from that, then next time you open it, it may open the mdx file.

I've just deleted the ones with the ~ in the file name and then opened Pocomail and the ~idx file has reappeared with the same file size but no ~mdx file.

I also have compress files but I think that they are to do with Outlook.

I've just compressed the mailbox that I was playing with and the ~idx and ~mdx have come back to the files sizes they were before I deleted the some of the messages. The main idx and mdx remain the same. Are there differences with yours when you delete then compress the mailbox?

3. Eudora Mailbox (this one seems a strange one not sure what this one is about ?) If I move them to another folder my mailboxes disappear.


I certainly don't have this and I'm not sure what the file type is - can you let me know.


There are sufficient differences with the files we have that it may be worth asking Poco support what files they would expect you to have and what are the implications of the Eudoria Mailbox. If they can explain what the ~ files are then it might trigger some thoughts as to what is causing the problem on your system. Also, as them can they explain why the deleted ~mdx file is restored after a compress and with a file size that was equivalent to the original before deleting files. You will need to test this first on your system and see what happens.


Hope this helps, let me know how you get on.

Peter

#13 ausman

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 10:06 PM

Hi Penmore

Thank you for your response once again.

After all this time (months) I have discovered what the problem was. I use VCom’s “Fix_it” utilities program, it’s similar to “Norton System Works” but better.

Fix_it has a file un-deleter feature which I now have discovered somehow conflicts with Poco, don’t know why but I do know if I disable it Poco works ok – deleted files stay deleted. The un-deleter did not affect any other program on my computer. All I did was un-tick “File Deleter” in the “Fix-it” icon in the sys tray and problem solved. I can't say whether it was a Poco or Vcom problem

Hope this will save anyone else the hassle I went through.

Thanks once again for your support and I’m glad to be able to use Poco again, it really is a great program.

ausman :thumbsup:

#14 penmore

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 01:53 AM

Hi ausman,

It's good that you have managed to solve the problem :thumbsup: and thanks for letting us all know. It would probably help the developers of both pieces of software if you could give them a brief outline of the problems and the resolution.

Stay safe,

Peter




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