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Affirmative Action


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#1 godzilla15

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 12:10 AM

What are your opinions on affirmative action. Is it fair, and does it promote the values Americans hold dear? Should the current generation pay for the sins of the past? Is it really just reverse discrimination? Can you justify using race as a deciding factor in college admissions or other areas, when all men are created equal? Shouldn't the person's race be inconsequential?

I am personally against affirmative action, for all the reasons stated above. Are there other reasons that affirmative action should or should not be used, that were not previously mentioned? I want to know people opinions on the issue as well as pro's or con's that I may have missed.

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#2 medab1

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 09:44 PM

First come,first served,with the BEST qualifications for the job.....

Reverse discrimination is worse than discrimination itself.....

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#3 groovicus

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 03:36 PM

Reverse discrimination is worse than discrimination itself..


Oh? I didn't realize there were degrees... discrimination is discrimination.

#4 ussr1943

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 09:43 PM

This is just another method of discrimination, even worse its sponsored by the gov't, and politicians.

Racism = Racism
People = People

By creating laws to "protect" someone's race we are still splitting the world up.
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#5 yano

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 08:51 PM

Exactly. If you had three white men with ample qualifications and one black man apply for the job and the company needs to keep there "affirmative action" ratio at a certain number they will accept the black gentlemen. I am not trying to pick specifically on blacks and whites but it is the most common form shown in America. I think "affirmative action" is joke today. It is being abused as a "back door" for getting fired for legitimate reasons.

I work at Sears and a year ago we had this nice lady who worked within our department of Lawn and Garden. She was black. We'll call her "Ashley." She knew nothing about what we sold. If the customer asked her a question she would turn to other nearby associates and ask us. Which was fine and dandy, we had no problem helping each other. But after about a few weeks to a few months he questions started becoming ridiculously easy. Knowledge that should be known by a salesman that is trying to sell items. It go so bad once (at this point she was there for 24 months) she started asking us "how do you start the lawn mower" "why does the snow thrower only come with a 25 foot cord, my drive way is 100 feet long..." "do i have to put gas in if i electrically start it?"

Now if you were new to the job, I wouldn't mind answering these questions, even if you had gone through training, but for being there for nearly 2 years and not knowing anything. I honestly don't even know how she sold most of the stuff she did over the course of the two years. We thought she knew most of the "common" knowledge however, slowly her lack of knowledge of the products became more apparent. It got so bad my manager mentioned once that she wasn't going to be with us much longer, she was going to fire her if it got worse. The reason my manager stepped in was because one associate (who has been there quite some time) (I'll call her Stacy) got fed up and stopped helping her and actually showed her where to find the information at. (in the Merchandise List Books aka ML Books). They had a few words but nothing (I thought) was serious. Apparently "Ashley" knew her time was coming and mentioned once (while arguing with the "Stacy" mentioned she would sue Sears for discrimination if they fired her.

Now do you think she should be fired, or do you think she should sue the company?

#6 MaraM

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 09:30 PM

Oh gracious, I too think there is something serious wrong with all this. And, I suspect, most people sharing an ethnic background with others are against this 'affirmative' action, as well.

Imagine what it must feel like to be, for instance, an East Indian lady in our local Bank ... working alongside many fellow employees and one, dirt dumb woman too. This woman is rude and without doubt should never have been hired (example: Trying to get Canadian coins exchanged for paper money before leaving on a holiday and being told by this woman, "We don't buy money" - one of the many reasons why, when there was a line up and her space became empty in front of the counter, most of us would simply step back and encourage the person behind us to go ahead - grin).

Apparently the bank's hands were tied until the other lady and two more of her co-workers demanded this particular worker go or they would all go.

The worse part, as the first East Indian lady said, is feeling like our Government thinks they are "too stupid" or "to in need of help" as a race to hold their own with the other citizens. Hmmm. Yes, I agree with the statement that each of us should be hired, retained, receive bonuses and raises - and fired - solely on the basis of who we are as people, not what racial group we may or may not belong to.
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#7 JohnWho

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 09:41 PM

Reverse discrimination is worse than discrimination itself..


Oh? I didn't realize there were degrees... discrimination is discrimination.


Yeah, after many year's of observation and thought, I have to agree with that.

There are different "forms" of racism (Wikipedia) and racial discrimination though, and I'd say that affirmative action may fall under the "institutional racism" umbrella.

The concept of correcting an imbalance is well-meaning and worthy, however, and must be considered carefully.


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#8 Mnatty

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 10:23 AM

I think most of you are making some valid points, here is my perspective though. If a history of past discrimination exists, say if members of a certain Race were barred from joining a particular profession, and this can be clearly demonstrated. Then, in that case I see where those in support of affirmative action are coming from. I personally think one's qualification should be the only thing that is used to determine eligibility.

#9 MaraM

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 02:26 AM

Here in Canada, and I imagine in many other Countries, if a person feels they were not hired because of discrimination - or let go because of discrimination - there are ever so strict regulations covering this (at no charge to the person who feels wrongly done by).

I'd honestly never really given much thought to any of this until a few years ago when watching a television interview of fireman in the State of Washington. Their huge complaint was legitimate (at least to me) ... if a person is hired because he or she is simply within the 'protected' group, that's bad enough. But to be hired if, for instance, they can't read or write instructions or keep up physically with the others, not only are public lives at risk, fellow fire fighters lives are at risk.

Pretend you're blind when hiring and hire on qualifications only - but ensure there is a process in place to help those that truly do run across bigots (whether because of ethnic background, age or sex).
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