Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Vista Loader


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 RandomUser

RandomUser

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 02:30 AM

this is quite self explanatory. I want to know how to install linux without deleting the All important Restore partition that comes with most desktops and laptops these days. Does anyone know how to install Linux and use the Vista Loader instead of Grub or LILO. Any help greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 Joedude

Joedude

  • Members
  • 337 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, England
  • Local time:06:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 05:04 AM

As windows by it's very nature is extremly self-centered, the windows boot loader will only work with windows. Windows will not even recognize partitions which are not either FAT, FAT32 or NTFS. As linux runs for the most part on ext2 or ext3, suse on reiserfs, you can't. Howver, your recovery partition setup by Vist should remain untouched and be available should you need it.
If someone tells you to su rm -rf /
DON'T DO IT!!!!
Be in the know, Bash smart!

#3 RandomUser

RandomUser
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 09:37 AM

Do you have some kind of backing that the restore partition will remain untouched?

My understanding has always been that the boot process is controlled by the way the bios reads the Superblock or the first piece of info on the harddrive
which is the MBR or master boot record. Is the bios in these systems modified to recognize the restore partition and offer the appropriate invocation
method? My concern is that, if the Grub or LILO is installed that it will replace information in the Superblock and either corrupt the restore partition or remove it completely in those distro's without the ability to modify the bootloader used.

If the bios in these partitions can recognize a seperate boot option IE two logical boot options then maybe I'd be more willing to attempt this.

I don't like the "should" work mentality.

Has anyone does this successfully?

#4 Joedude

Joedude

  • Members
  • 337 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, England
  • Local time:06:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 09:57 AM

No, I don't. My experience has been that the restore partitions have stayed. However, having a look, I see this has become a problem for others. Here's loads of results for it:

Google sez

So I wouldn't try it based on that. But I noticed there are loads of solutions listed. None of them will involve keeping the windows boot loader.

Apparently there is no difference between XP's bootloader and Vistas.

Ahh...I think I see what you are saying...you don't want to loose your current restore points. I was thinking along the lines of it building them back after the dual install...I just lit up the whole room with the bulb that just appeared above my head.

Grub and lilo will both replace this information. However, putting in a 3rd party bootloader is the only way to run dual boot with windows. You may designate the boot flag to whichever partition you like during install, the superblock will still function exactly the same, just with a different bit of instructions.

It will rebuild them, I know that for sure. If it will keep the current ones, I dunno. I'll have to check on them for you, but, I am almost 100% sure the answer is no, you will loose them initially. When you reboot into Vista, it should make a new one, but you may have to the feature back on first. No fear, I'll find out.
If someone tells you to su rm -rf /
DON'T DO IT!!!!
Be in the know, Bash smart!

#5 RandomUser

RandomUser
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:57 AM

Well, I haven't seen anything useful from the google search, however, it appears that the restore is actually built into the Vista as a restore option.
It appears that Microsoft maybe provides an option for OEM's to start a system recovery from "F8" startup options. If this is all I have to be concerned with, then I just need to find a way to install my distro andbe able to configure GRUB or LILO accordingly.

That being said, I just need to know how to install, oh say Ubuntu, and modify the GRUB so it leaves the D: drive ALONE. In that case, simply restoring to
factory defaults is a matter of hitting "F8" upon boot and then choosing restore, log on as User in Vista and choosing restore factory defaults.
So, my issue it appears is more about Customizing the GRUB, which I'm a whole lot more happy with.

Know anything about the Grub, Maybe I'll read up on that and see what I find.


PS:

It would still be nice to know the other option just for future refernce.
I found the information that I currently have from checking the Dell website and tech support responses. Who Knew?

#6 BlackSpyder

BlackSpyder

    Bleeping Big Rig


  • BC Advisor
  • 2,456 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huddleston, VA USA (Home Sweet Home)
  • Local time:01:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 06:23 PM

There is one way i know of to ensure that the Windows Recovery Partition remains completely intact and you dont send programs like GoBack and PCAngel into a complete fritz (how I learned about it). Its not suggested and can mess with your Date and Time in both OS's in some cases (leaving the system clock set to regular time instead of UTC might help this). It also requires 2 Hard Drives

1)Shutdown and unplug PC
2)Disconnect the Windows drive and install the Linux Drive to be as Slave
3)Plug up PC and boot with the Install Disk
4)When the install is finished and you're sure its working unplug your PC and reconnect the Windows Drive. Plug the PC back in.
5)Boot the PC and enter the BIOS
6)In the boot order section rearrange the Hard Drives in the order in which you wish to boot
7)save your settings and exit the BIOS

Should you want to boot from the other hard drive enter the Boot Menu or BIOS and select the Drive which you wish to use (in the BIOS you will have to rearrange the Boot Order again)

GRUB or Lilo will be installed on the Linux Drive's MBR.

Edited by BlackSpyder, 24 August 2007 - 06:24 PM.

Posted Image




#7 RandomUser

RandomUser
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:48 PM

blackspyder, that's not a good option at all as the constant switching would run heavy on the bios, thus shortening it's life.
Also this is a laptop with one drive, not a desktop. Further, I don't believe Dell uses PC angel or Goback, not sure it's there own setup or whatever. If this is too crazy (for the option of an external restore partition) then I'm not worried about it. I know it can be done, just not sure how.

But As i've said before, the restore is now an option for recovery in Vista, and that's what Dell uses. I'll stick with that.

#8 Joedude

Joedude

  • Members
  • 337 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, England
  • Local time:06:54 PM

Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:55 PM

For Ubuntu, it's as easy as following the instructions after you click install. Once you have it installed, Grub will be the basic boot loader. You can edit it by openning a terminal and typing sudo gedit /etc/grub.conf

Here's a handy little article about editting grub
http://www.pcguide.com/byop/byop_Editingth...urationFile.htm
If someone tells you to su rm -rf /
DON'T DO IT!!!!
Be in the know, Bash smart!

#9 Derek_S

Derek_S

  • Members
  • 9 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Berkshire
  • Local time:06:54 PM

Posted 26 August 2007 - 03:05 PM

The system at which I am sitting uses the XP bootloader to allow me the choice of XP, 98SE, or the linux grub boot process.

This is done by installing the grub boot process to the partition for linux, rather than to the MBR, and then making a copy of this (from linux) to where it can be placed as an ordinary file available to the XP bootloader. An entry is then made to boot.ini to invoke this as an option.

This is a well documented process, which I found via google, and then used to set up my system.

If you wish, I can dig out the references.

#10 Joedude

Joedude

  • Members
  • 337 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, England
  • Local time:06:54 PM

Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:04 AM

That is not a fix. That is what is called a workaround. You are not actually booting into linux, you arte booting another boot loader. While it may work, it is far from what should happen with a boot loader. MS has the right to make all of their software exclusive to MS products, and they have chosen to do so. A lot of people were expeting to see MS do some compatibility things with SUSE when the deal with Novel happened. That was just silliness. That deal was about MS establishing a linux distro paying to use their intellectual property so they can set a precednce for future courts. Nothing more. So, yes, you are correct, but that method is a work around, not a fix.
If someone tells you to su rm -rf /
DON'T DO IT!!!!
Be in the know, Bash smart!

#11 narcoreality

narcoreality

  • Members
  • 19 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:54 PM

Posted 28 August 2007 - 10:24 PM

Some linux distros are able to have the boot sector on a floppy drive disk if you have one. If you have a newer pc though, you may not have a floppy drive and thus it won't work.

#12 RandomUser

RandomUser
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:54 PM

Posted 31 August 2007 - 08:32 PM

Well as I originally asked, and am not dead set on, I have yet to see a solution for the Recovery partition when dual booting with *Nix and Windows.
I don't think it's all that difficult in most cases either. Most of the time that's simply and option similar to F8, such as F10 or F11, and that is controlled by a modified bootloader of some kind. If that's strictly tied to the BIOS, you wouldn't have much of an option for Dual Booting unless you didn't care about your recovery partition. Again I don't know what the exact fix is, but that's ok because my recovery part is launched from the Vista Loader.

As far as the previous, I think that Grub 2.0 will do the trick if you use that when it becomes 100% functional.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users