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Philosophy


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#1 yano

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 11:16 PM

Alright get ready for a long post... but here it goes anyways (try not to get lost)...

Alright here is what I've always wondered about religion. You grow up believing in (let's say) "God," ok? In your religion (Christian religion) you are promised an eternal after-life if you life a good life and follow the religion. You'll get to go to the "Christian Heaven."

Now if you take another person who has been growing up under a different faith (let's say Muslim) you get the same gig. If you live an honorable life, with respect and follow the religion you are promised eternal-life (plus a few bonuses). You'll get to go to the "Muslim Heaven."

And so on... you can go on to each religion in the world. So who's heaven really exists? And how many heavens really exist? Does the Muslim heaven exist if you are a Christian and does the Christian Heaven exist if you are a Muslim, Jewish, etc?

What you believe is where you will end up in the end. What your neighbor believes is where he will end up in the end as well. So does everyone go there own way? Or maybe it's all the mind game? If so who's right?

Let's say Person A believes in God 1.
Let's say Person B believes in God 2.

Both Person A and B dies. A goes to Heaven 1, and B goes to Heaven 2. Proves more than one religion is right?

Mostly what I am trying to make a point is. If one believes strongly enough where they will end up after they are dead is where they will go.

What do you think? Do you think your religion isn't the only right one? Just because your God exists, does that mean any other Gods cannot exist? If so then why are there other religions? Was religion really a mind game? We will never know.

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#2 Mr Alpha

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:55 AM

Doesn't the religions (at least Christianity does) come with a "If you believe in the wrong god your screwed" clause?
"Anyone who cannot form a community with others, or who does not need to because he is self-sufficient [...] is either a beast or a god." Aristotle
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#3 jgweed

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 10:03 AM

This subject is complicated by additional considerations, Yano.
Not all religions promise an after-life.
Various religions have different conceptions of what God is.
And there are other viewpoints and perspectives that "bracket" God's existence, or deny that either any sort of deity can be known, or that any sort of deity even exists.
Regards,
John

*Putting on my Moderator hat.*
I would hope this topic remains a discussion of religion in general, and does not turn into an argument about which religion is true or which religion is best, or which religion I believe.

Edited by jgweed, 15 July 2007 - 10:26 AM.

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#4 yano

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 10:43 AM

I agree jgweed. I have had many a "conversations" with my friends who strongly agree in Christianity about "what if I was Jewish, Catholic, or something else? Would I go to my heaven I believe in, or would I be forced into yours? Or is there a heaven for one?"

The biggest point I'm trying to drive home is, (which is difficult) I think religion is all in one head, because if I can wake up tomorrow and become a different religion and instantly have promise of a different after life, then doesn't that mean it's all in my head?

#5 jgweed

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:04 AM

I am not sure, Yano, what you mean by "all in my head." I think that if you carefully explain what you mean by that phrase, you will have gone a long way towards solving your own question.

John
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#6 yano

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:17 AM

Well everyone in the world who belongs to a religion strongly believes in their religion.

Everyone who belongs to their religion strongly backs it up and believes in their religion, some will fight til death for it.

But the reason I kept saying "it's all in one's head," is that since you can never prove one religion correct and everyone believes their religon is right (and nor other religion can be right) does this mean that they call might exist? Or that none of them exist?

Another irony (or paradox) if all religions say you if you don't believe in their religion or your doomed to hell, doesn't that mean everyone is doomed to hell? Whose hell?

Or how could one switch from another religion over night and think the new religion is absolutely right? without questioning anything with his previous knowledge of his first religion.


I must apologize, I didn't start the topic off the way I wanted to. I originally had an excellent one but I submitted it the night of the "back-up" so it was lost into the World Wide Web somewhere.

#7 jhsmurray

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:21 AM

I think religion is all in one head, because if I can wake up tomorrow and become a different religion and instantly have promise of a different after life, then doesn't that mean it's all in my head?


I suggest that if it's all somewhere, it would be in your "heart", not your "head". Faith is the key behind religion :flowers:
I think it's always interesting to try to analyze different faiths, but in the end, IMHO, the realm of the supernatural is beyond the reach of reason. Sorry if that seems like a non-answer.

The link below is just for entertainment purposes, but you might get a kick out of it (put on your popup blocker :thumbsup: )
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

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#8 jgweed

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:29 AM

Not all religions condemn others to damnation, so these must be considered as well.
The religion, for example, of the ancient Egyptians seems to have absorbed into itself many different and localised religions, not without some inconsistencies which they seemed to take in their stride. The state religion of the Romans, too, was more or less able to co-exist with many others in the Empire, as long as its citizens made some sort of outward conformity. From what I know of the teachings of the Buddha, much the same can be said.

What makes a religion a religion, and what distinguishes religion from other human beliefs and activities? Or is it impossible to arrive at a single concept (definition) that includes every sort of religion? What sort of picture of the world do religions provide?

Regards,
John

Edited by jgweed, 15 July 2007 - 12:01 PM.

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#9 yano

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:48 AM

jhsmurray I took that a while ago. I was shocked when I got the results. lol

[quote name='http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html']1. Liberal Quakers (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (97%)
3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (96%)
4. Secular Humanism (88%)
5. Reform Judaism (87%)
6. Theravada Buddhism (83%)
7. New Age (78%)
8. Neo-Pagan (76%)
9. Mahayana Buddhism (71%)
10. Taoism (69%)
11. Nontheist (69%)
12. Orthodox Quaker (65%)
13. Sikhism (61%)
14. Bahá'í Faith (57%)
15. Jainism (57%)
16. Seventh Day Adventist (54%)
17. New Thought (53%)
18. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (51%)
19. Orthodox Judaism (49%)
20. Scientology (49%)
21. Hinduism (46%)
22. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (45%)
23. Islam (40%)
24. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (32%)
25. Eastern Orthodox (30%)
26. Roman Catholic (30%)
27. Jehovah's Witness (12%)[/quote]

Takes a while to take the test.

Jgweed are you right, when do when draw the line of a religion? What about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot <== interesting viewpoint

#10 Mr Alpha

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 01:31 PM

Where you draw the line for religion is a categorizing problem and doesn't have any effect upon the object in itself.

Question is why is a religion less than any other belief you have? Proof? Any empirical proof requires a pre-existing belief. Logical proofs? "I think therefor I am" is a pretty good one, but beyond that? How far can you get?
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#11 jgweed

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 05:17 PM

Perhaps, if I may take a different view, the object IS the definition. I don't think that there is a religion-in-itself somewhere "out there" that is either objectively knowable, or that can exist apart from human interpretation through language.

On the other hand I don't understand the statement that any proof, whether it be about an empirical matter of fact or a logical relation between ideas, requires a pre-existing belief . I do think it does require a pre-existing language. Perhaps Mr. Alpha could clarify what he means by belief, because I think we might be in agreement in a general way.

Cogito ergo sum, doesn't prove what poor Descartes thought it did or provide a certainty against his project of radical doubt, since all it really proves is that because I think, there is a thought. What is still at issue is the existence of the I doing the thinking.

Cheers,
John
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#12 solaris32

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 07:17 PM

I've often had similar questions. You see, I was raised as a Christian (non-denominational), yet who's to say this religion is correct? The only thing that supports this religion is a book that may/may not have been divinely written. Almost all other religions have similar proof. Shoot, I could write a book and claim it was divinely written by some deity I chose at random. Who's to say I'm wrong? Who's to say those other religions are right? All religions are based on opinion and unproven fact. So how do we know which religion is the right one? You don't, you just have to pick the one, or none at all, that fits your personality.
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#13 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 10:28 PM

Solaris have you ever studied the Bible? I mean like read it and study the verses or have you ever read the whole Bible?

Just something for you to read.

http://www.livingwaters.com/Merchant2/grap...hecy/index.html

Prophecies predicted in the Bible thousands of years ago coming true today.

Edited by cowsgonemadd3, 15 July 2007 - 10:28 PM.


#14 BlackSpyder

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:24 PM

CGM some of the prophecies on that site are stretching it a little

Example:

3. The use of nuclear weapons anticipated (Zechariah 14:12).
The neutron bomb melts (dissolves) its victims -
just as Zechariah predicted 2500 years ago.


However if you read the scripture listed (and those surrounding it) it stats that:

For I will gather "all" the nations against Jerusalem....

This has not happened and is a prerequisite to the plague mentioned in verse 12. there fore with the prerequisites not met the prophecy has not happened yet or has happened "wrong" making the Bible wrong.

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#15 solaris32

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:33 PM

Thank you Spyder. It's all how you interpret it. One person reads it one way, and another person reads it another way. One good example is how homosexuality is being deemed ok in some Christian sects, yet the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. It's a difference in interpretation. Not to mention the Bible itself has been translated, so who knows what was lost in translation?

You make a dozen predictions, and many years later one of them comes true, suddenly everything you say is considered true. There are many other books that have made predictions and some have come true. Does that mean those books are equally correct with the Bible?
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