 Virginia Tech College Tragedy., Could it have been avoided? |
Welcome Guest ( Log In | Click here to Register a free account now! )
Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to Bleeping Computer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.| Important Announcement: We have two terrific contests running on the site that I wanted all our members and guests to know about. The first contest is the HP Magic Giveaway, which is underway as of November 28th. More information can be found at this topic, which will be updated very soon with further information. The second contests, is for the chance to win two Seagate FreeAgent external hard drives. More information about this contest can be found here. These are both amazing contests and I suggest everyone submit an entry for them. - BleepingComputer Management |
Disclaimer:
PLEASE READ
This section is for polite and thoughtful debate on potentially controversial topics. There will be no flaming, swearing, or cursing. Anyone not following these simple rules will, without notice, have their posts immediately removed.
The opinions expressed in these forums in no way reflect the opinions of BleepingComputer.com
  |
 Apr 18 2007, 12:21 AM
Post
#1
|
|
 "Bleepin' Aussie Addict"  Group: Members Posts: 2,103 Joined: 14-October 06 From: SYDNEY-AUSTRALIA Member No.: 90,018  |
I myself think it could not be avoided because of two Factors, Random and Surprise. The Law Enforcement Agencies can't be everywhere,at any given moment.IMHO. This is one of the reports we are getting here in Sydney. http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/stor...5001021,00.html --------------------  I once had a life.. now I have the Internet... |
 |
 
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 11:10 AM
Post
#2
|
|
 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 27-October 06 From: Illinois (the land of strange laws) Member No.: 92,392 |
QUOTE The Law Enforcement Agencies can't be everywhere,at any given moment. Which is precisely the reason for citizens to be armed and trained to defend themselves when faced with such a situation. With gun ownership comes responsibility, responsibility for the weapon and its power, as well as responsibility to use that power when necessary. Someone should have dropped him! How many could have been spared agony? I can't imagine the heartache of the students and all the parents. I am sure this sounds cavalier, but I will say it anyways: Come surprise me with a random shot in my direction, see what happens to you. Everyday there is a battle, and often good and evil are clearly delineated. The more we restrain the hands of the good, the more evil wins out. Evil doesn't care for the rules, or feelings of its victims. But those that do are being made more and more impotent every day, because some person can't come to grips with the fact that often evil must be destroyed. I have no desire to kill another human being, nor would I rush to do it. But you better believe, if someone brings that $&*! to my doorstep, I will deal with them. And I deal in lead. No, this could not have been prevented. I agree DSTM, it was too random. But it could have been mitigated! After the first two killings, someone kills the assailant in the dorm, done! Or as he was marching across the campus. 30 more people died than had to. But we are afraid of death, of dealing and receiving. This post has been edited by blueandgold04: Apr 18 2007, 11:14 AM -------------------- "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." -Albert Camus
"Chance favors the prepared mind." -Louis Pasteur "If a man does his best, what else is there?" -George S. Patton |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 03:38 PM
Post
#3
|
|
 Who is running the store? Group: Members Posts: 1,914 Joined: 26-November 05 From: Tampa Bay Area, Florida, USA Member No.: 42,052 |
QUOTE(DSTM @ Apr 18 2007, 01:21 AM)  I would like to start this topic to get all Members Opinions and Thoughts on these Shocking Murders. I myself think it could not be avoided because of two Factors, Random and Surprise. The Law Enforcement Agencies can't be everywhere,at any given moment.IMHO. This is one of the reports we are getting here in Sydney. http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/stor...5001021,00.html Apparently, you didn't get the memo - we are all required to use "20/20 hindsight" at all times and conduct ourselves accordingly. Base all of your decisions on what you will learn in the future, not on what you know now. Geez. --------------------  I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 03:49 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Forum Addict Group: Members Posts: 1,360 Joined: 10-April 07 From: Atlanta, Georgia Member No.: 123,538 |
Well, based on some of the facts coming out, he could very well have been expelled from the school for some of the things he wrote, said, did.
Its impossible to say at this point that the situation could have been avoided. The issue now is the family's that are suffering as a result. We live in a growingly Godless society, and the "love of many" is "growing cold." May be time to dig out the "lesson book" and start teaching people the value of human life. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 05:26 PM
Post
#5
|
|
 The Bookworm Group: Moderator Posts: 5,081 Joined: 14-July 06 From: Bloomington, IN Member No.: 76,150 |
In the words of Martin Luther King Jr., "you can murder a murderer, but you can't murder murder." I agree. Reacting to violence with violence will only create more of the same.
Could this tragedy have been averted? The fact is, we don't know. "It is as impossible to predict the past that did not happen as it is to predict the future." Aslan to Lucy in Prince Caspian in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. Perhaps a radio announcement could have reduced the death toll, and then again perhaps not. Would the perpetrator have gone elsewhere and done even more heinous acts? Possibly. We really cannot know what was in the man's mind that contributed to his actions. All we can do is to act with strong love, mercy, and compassion toward everyone no matter who they are or where they are from. Orange Blossom 
-------------------- Orange Blossom An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure ESET NOD32, AVG Anti-spyware Free, SuperAntiSpyware Pro, SpywareBlaster, Spybot 1.5, WinPatrol Plus, Sunbelt Personal Firewall - Full, Comodo BOClean 4.27, Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware, NoScript Firefox ext., Norton noscript |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 10:25 PM
Post
#6
|
|
 Forum Addict Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 2-April 06 From: British Columbia, Canada Member No.: 62,283 |
There really is no true 'safety' in our world - but then again, there wasn't hundreds of years ago either.
And sadly, I suspect when police interview the hundreds of survivors they will discover that rather than the typical, "but he was such a nice, quiet neighbour". etc, they may find a lot of students and even teachers saying, "it doesn't surprise me" when commenting on this particular student. This is NOT to place blame on anyone except the crazy that did the killing, but our society seems so complacent in many ways. IF one can believe the local news, they say this student showed severe signs of disturbed behaviour earlier - in fact, stalked female students and his writings in creative writing class caused concern with not just one but several teachers. What ever happened to explusion from school when the teachers first became so concerned? Granted, apparently he was asked to 'receive counselling' - but would it have been so 'society unacceptable' to expell him or anyone else that causes teachers this much concern about his 'stability' with his not being able to reutrn until he'd received help? Being expelled and forced to receive counselling not have changed anything - we'll never know. But sadly, many 'silently walking killers' have been treated with compassion and understanding and love - and all this still has no bearing on the final act. So very difficult to comprehend. Huge, huge sad sigh. I do know that, right or wrong, I am glad he killed himself for I'm afraid I would have little mercy towards him. But my heart weeps not just for all the victims but for his parents and all those that loved him - their lives are surely destroyed as well. -------------------- Never let your computer realize you are in a hurry or just typing the last few words of a vital document.
While outer events might make one happy or sad, happiness itself is entirely internal, and at all times completely within one's power. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 11:14 PM
Post
#7
|
|
 Bleeping Diesel Addicted Group: BC Advisor Posts: 1,643 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Huddleston, VA USA (Home Sweet Home) Member No.: 51,954 |
It might have been avoided but how many kids are like him and become productive members of society. This kid wasnt exactly a sleeper I mean he had 2 interactions with campus police, a restraining order, and a stay in a mental institution but no one ever thought hed go off the deep end like this.
--------------------  Frugal:def Christmas shopping on Craigslist |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 12:18 AM
Post
#8
|
|
 Forum Regular Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 5-April 07 From: In front of my laptop. Member No.: 122,269 |
I think the police were way too slow in reacting to the first 2 murders. During the 2 hour wait between the first 2 murders and the next 30, the police should have locked down the campus, instead of interviewing some people and getting nowhere. The first 2 murders could not have been avoided, but the next 30 could definately have been toned down. Loser points for the police
 .
This post has been edited by solaris32: Apr 20 2007, 12:22 AM -------------------- When I'm asking for help, please explain, in detail, every step. Thank you :).
 "Fact is what the individual makes it, but truth, is an absolute, of which, we can barely glimpse." J.E.B. I have nightmares about computer glitches and bugs. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 01:17 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
arachibutyrophobia Group: BC Advisor Posts: 4,951 Joined: 4-March 05 From: Northern CA. Member No.: 13,532 |
QUOTE(solaris32 @ Apr 20 2007, 12:18 AM) I think the police were way too slow in reacting to the first 2 murders. During the 2 hour wait between the first 2 murders and the next 30, the police should have locked down the campus, instead of interviewing some people and getting nowhere. The first 2 murders could not have been avoided, but the next 30 could definately have been toned down. Loser points for the police .The police followed standard procedure for what was being recognized as a singular event. Events dictate changes in policy, and this event will undoubtabley change procedures for future violent crimes of campus. -------------------- Lord, may we please have a little more chlorine in the gene pool?
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 01:54 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
"Bleepin' Aussie Addict" Group: Members Posts: 2,103 Joined: 14-October 06 From: SYDNEY-AUSTRALIA Member No.: 90,018 |
Agree with what your saying,'Solaris32',regarding lockdown.Given that the gunman hadn't been caught,a lock down would be in order,I would have thought.
What I can't believe,given the time to shoot so many people and not one had an adrenalin rush to overpower this madman,which may have reduced the death toll.The Gunman would have had to reload,I would think.Was everyone more concerned in saving their own Butt than trying to save their Classmates. Different people react to the same circumstance in different ways,in my opinion. It's clear to me that no one even had a clue what was about to happen.This Surprise and Random attack,caught everyone off guard,so you can't really Lay the blame in one area.To me it was a combination. Would a background Medical check on all Pupils, pick up Mental Health Problems,and thus reduce the chance of this ever happening? I wonder.It should be implemented immediately if it isn't already. And if this was adopted as part of the entry criteria,the Gunman would never have been enrolled,I would think.Maybe the Tech College was more interested in the almighty Dollar,instead of student safety. You will never stop these types of attacks,but more has to be done to at least reduce the chances of it happening in the future. -------------------- I once had a life.. now I have the Internet... |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 09:53 AM
Post
#11
|
|
|
arachibutyrophobia Group: BC Advisor Posts: 4,951 Joined: 4-March 05 From: Northern CA. Member No.: 13,532 |
QUOTE(DSTM @ Apr 20 2007, 01:54 AM) Agree with what your saying,'Solaris32',regarding lockdown.Given that the gunman hadn't been caught,a lock down would be in order,I would have thought. What I can't believe,given the time to shoot so many people and not one had an adrenalin rush to overpower this madman,which may have reduced the death toll.The Gunman would have had to reload,I would think.Was everyone more concerned in saving their own Butt than trying to save their Classmates. Different people react to the same circumstance in different ways,in my opinion. It's clear to me that no one even had a clue what was about to happen.This Surprise and Random attack,caught everyone off guard,so you can't really Lay the blame in one area.To me it was a combination. Would a background Medical check on all Pupils, pick up Mental Health Problems,and thus reduce the chance of this ever happening? I wonder.It should be implemented immediately if it isn't already. And if this was adopted as part of the entry criteria,the Gunman would never have been enrolled,I would think.Maybe the Tech College was more interested in the almighty Dollar,instead of student safety. You will never stop these types of attacks,but more has to be done to at least reduce the chances of it happening in the future. These people were too busy trying to save their own lives by finding what ever cover they could. You need to remember that this guy had to hand guns, so if he was diligent he could always have one loaded. The legal problems with your idea of blocking enrollment would be incredible, I shudder just thinking of what the ACLU would do. I entertained a similar thought for a couple of minutes before the list of reasons why it would never work became too large to even consider it. My thought was to make it harder for people like this shooter to get their hands on firearms and ammunition. Psychologist and Psychiatrist are required to report certain types of patient information to law enforcement, I would like to see them required to report patients who demonstrate the potential of violent acts. I would like to see legislation passed so that patients with this kind of documentation would not be able to purchase firearms or ammunition, and this information would show up in the background check. I think find your statement about the Va. Tech being more interested in the money baseless and offensive. I get the feeling that you are just throwing out crap just to see if it will stick. -------------------- Lord, may we please have a little more chlorine in the gene pool?
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 10:36 AM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 27-October 06 From: Illinois (the land of strange laws) Member No.: 92,392 |
QUOTE(dc3 @ Apr 20 2007, 09:53 AM) Psychologist and Psychiatrist are required to report certain types of patient information to law enforcement, I would like to see them required to report patients who demonstrate the potential of violent acts. I would like to see legislation passed so that patients with this kind of documentation would not be able to purchase firearms or ammunition, and this information would show up in the background check. That's a great idea! Now, with one stroke of the pen a psychologist can eliminate someone's Second Amendment Rights, if they deem them pre-disposed to violence. First I would like to say that many I have met in the shrink profession are in need of serious mental evaluation themselves. But hey, let's give them the authority to blackball someone because they display violent tendencies. Some of these people are so self-righteous and fed by their own bull$&!%, they couldn't find their butt with a handful of fish hooks. Secondly, I don't think of myself as a violent person really. However, I enjoy practicing Martial Arts. I lift weights to be stronger, and I enjoy good-natured physical confrontation, as well as a challenge. Also, if anyone ever injured or killed a member of my family or close friend (in a way to cause severe torment in their lives) I would kill them. No question. Does this predispose me to violent acts? Should I be banned? (I have been shooting guns since I was 5 [no lie], and have never shot at a person or desired to). Finally, now every person running your background for criminal history has access to your mental health? What an invasion of privacy. Maybe someone went through a bad patch and comitted themselves for a month to clear their head and get some help. Should that be publicly accessible knowledge in order for them to legally purchase a gun? This sort of system would only strengthen and embolden the black market for guns. And unless the guy had three arms, he would have had to take time to reload at some point. And dropping a mag and putting in a fresh one while bullets are coming at you is no easy task I am sure. bg04 This post has been edited by blueandgold04: Apr 20 2007, 10:39 AM -------------------- "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." -Albert Camus
"Chance favors the prepared mind." -Louis Pasteur "If a man does his best, what else is there?" -George S. Patton |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 11:08 AM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 27-October 06 From: Illinois (the land of strange laws) Member No.: 92,392 |
dc3, I don't mean for my response to belittle you as a person or to flame you. I am just tired of control, and how everyone runs to more oversight when something goes wrong. Yet, these things still happen, even with oversight. Only 3-4 months ago Virginia ruled that no concealed carry was allowed on campuses, and now we have a school shooting. So we only know control, and its not working. What about empowering people for once?
Sorry if my rant came across as offensive to you as an individual. That is not its intention. Sincerely, bg04 -------------------- "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." -Albert Camus
"Chance favors the prepared mind." -Louis Pasteur "If a man does his best, what else is there?" -George S. Patton |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 11:19 AM
Post
#14
|
|
 Feed me some spyware!  Group: Banned Posts: 4,557 Joined: 18-July 04 From: USA Ware Shoals SC Member No.: 1,500 |
If some of those people would have had a gun and shot the idiot then yes 29 less people could have died.
If there would have been sufficient security it could have been stopped. If the college had put the news out earlier then yes some less would have died. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2007, 11:30 AM
Post
#15
|
|
|
arachibutyrophobia Group: BC Advisor Posts: 4,951 Joined: 4-March 05 From: Northern CA. Member No.: 13,532 |
QUOTE(blueandgold04 @ Apr 20 2007, 10:36 AM) QUOTE(dc3 @ Apr 20 2007, 09:53 AM) Psychologist and Psychiatrist are required to report certain types of patient information to law enforcement, I would like to see them required to report patients who demonstrate the potential of violent acts. I would like to see legislation passed so that patients with this kind of documentation would not be able to purchase firearms or ammunition, and this information would show up in the background check. That's a great idea! Now, with one stroke of the pen a psychologist can eliminate someone's Second Amendment Rights, if they deem them pre-disposed to violence. First I would like to say that many I have met in the shrink profession are in need of serious mental evaluation themselves. But hey, let's give them the authority to blackball someone because they display violent tendencies. Some of these people are so self-righteous and fed by their own bull$&!%, they couldn't find their butt with a handful of fish hooks. Secondly, I don't think of myself as a violent person really. However, I enjoy practicing Martial Arts. I lift weights to be stronger, and I enjoy good-natured physical confrontation, as well as a challenge. Also, if anyone ever injured or killed a member of my family or close friend (in a way to cause severe torment in their lives) I would kill them. No question. Does this predispose me to violent acts? Should I be banned? (I have been shooting guns since I was 5 [no lie], and have never shot at a person or desired to). Finally, now every person running your background for criminal history has access to your mental health? What an invasion of privacy. Maybe someone went through a bad patch and comitted themselves for a month to clear their head and get some help. Should that be publicly accessible knowledge in order for them to legally purchase a gun? This sort of system would only strengthen and embolden the black market for guns. And unless the guy had three arms, he would have had to take time to reload at some point. And dropping a mag and putting in a fresh one while bullets are coming at you is no easy task I am sure. bg04 Apparently you suffer from ionlyreadwhatiwanttosee, because if you had read the firs part of that you would have found my statement about it not being feasible much less the mention of the ACLU. This is just about as possible as some of the other suggestion that I've seen recently about banning firearms. My point is that there are no easy solutions to this problem, and it has been around since 1966 when this nation had it's first on campus massacre. Obviously you have some anger issues yourself so I would guess that you're speaking from experience when you collectively rank the "shink profession" as needing evaluation. Apparently Cho didn't need that third arm as he did exchange several magazines while in the process of killing thirty people. If this guy hadn't been as angry as he was he might have just walked into a classroom with a bomb strapped to his chest and blown everyone away. -------------------- Lord, may we please have a little more chlorine in the gene pool?
|
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: