 Space Exploration |
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 Jan 29 2007, 07:04 PM
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#16
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 Forum Regular  Group: Members Posts: 275 Joined: 14-December 04 From: Byron Bay, Australia Member No.: 7,128  |
I read the list of spin off applications provided. Few or none of them seem to be revolutionary new technologies. Most seem to be advances in existing fields. And most, although helpful, seem to be applications used in fringe areas. This is a general observation and it is possible that there may be the odd exception. What occurred to me is that most if not all these innovations and improvements would have come about anyway, particularly if funding had been directed at research and developement. What i'm saying is that if you add up the hundreds of billions (trillions maybe) of tax dollars invested in the space programe, the return does not seem comensurate with the investment. I'm betting that if that money had been invested into important areas of research and development we would have seen some really important breakthroughs. Bottom line, I don't think we got value for money, given the other pressing needs of the world. Having said all that, I am still in favour of space exploration, but on a more modest budget, focusing on robotics at this time. This post has been edited by Constantine: Jan 29 2007, 07:05 PM -------------------- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
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Jan 29 2007, 08:51 PM
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#17
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 Feed me some spyware!  Group: Banned Posts: 4,557 Joined: 18-July 04 From: USA Ware Shoals SC Member No.: 1,500 |
Think about it.
What about the poor and sick and dying in THIS world? How can sending some 136 million dollar robot to mars be worth the money when so many can be fed in foreign countries? People are dying over there! And we are trying to find LIFE on other planets. Look at your own planet as people die each day of hunger. Then somehow justify and say "well if we send up another bot we might find yet more rock and more space dust". Human life is worth way more than a bag of rocks and dust from mars or the moon. I hear of people dying of cancer because they cant afford health care and the government could give cheap health care to people but we would rather go to the moon. I like space exploration I do. I have always loved to look through a telescope at the planets but its just not worth the money until we find a way to get there without fuel that costs so much and is to slow to get far. It doesnt take science to feed and clothe the hungry. By arts you mean? Yes some science is fine it helps bring new breakthroughs. How about science that affects our need of today? Like GREEN energy items? Cheaper solar panels. New batteries for electric cars and the such. Yes this stuff is being done today but not on a scale like looking for life on other planets. This post has been edited by cowsgonemadd3: Jan 29 2007, 08:58 PM |
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Jan 30 2007, 10:45 AM
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#18
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 416 Joined: 2-March 06 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 57,604 |
CGM, I hear you.
I also feel that our first priority should lie in solving the vast number of social and ecological problems facing humanity. It's hard not hear about NASA's budget and ask, "a million this, a hundred million that...why not use the money where it's really needed?" Unfortunately it turns out that when it comes to the most empoverished countries in the world, the root of the suffering is far deeper than money alone can fix. Without political stability there can't be economic stability, and without economic stability there can't be growth. I am not sure what we can do about political stability, or lack there of, in other countries. Iraq is an example. Vast amounts of military force and money have been expended there...the end result is a country less stable than the one we invaded. But what of our own problems, in the U.S.? Again, the roots of the problems such as inadequate health care are far deeper than the amount of money we have. I believe that until we reexamine our views on economics and social issues, we will continue to have the same problems...no matter how much money we spend. After all, we spent almost 2 trillion dollars in 2004 alone on health care...getting worse every year. For comparison: in the same year, NASA's budget was about 15.5 billion...a drop in the bucket, relatively speaking. How can we spend 2 trillion dollars and still have 45 million people without health care? As I said, the problems we face are rooted far deeper than the amount of money we spend. The reason I brought up government supported programs, science and otherwise, is because private industry alone won't give us the diversity of knowledge we as a society (and the world on the whole) gain by funding a multitude of programs via tax dollars. For example, much of the research and development of alternative energy won't happen without grants and government support of university programs. Also, the implementation of such alternative energy sources won't happen without government subsidies. The government is required to redirect industries; left to their own devices, heavily-rooted industries continue on the paths they has trodden...simply because it is cost effective to do so. Anyway, I do think the space program has a purpose and is a worthwile endevour...both in pure scientific research and that which directly applies to life on Earth, because the program provides a wealth of knowledge in both. However, like Constantine suggested, if the focus is on robotic exploration for the next few decades, we could spend a lot less but keep on learning. I don't support NASA's new (relatively) short term goals of returning to the moon and constant shuttle launches...especially at the cost of gutting robotic missions (aka actual science). As for dealing with those deeper problems we face...perhaps we should do that in another thread. 
This post has been edited by locally pwned: Jan 30 2007, 10:54 AM -------------------- "The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking." - Albert Einstein
"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands." - Douglas Adams |
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Jan 30 2007, 11:34 AM
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#19
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Feed me some spyware! Group: Banned Posts: 4,557 Joined: 18-July 04 From: USA Ware Shoals SC Member No.: 1,500 |
Well even without economic growth in those countries we could still feed them with the 15.5 billion nasa uses. Let alone fix some pot holes in the US roadways!
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Jan 30 2007, 10:17 PM
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#20
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Forum Regular Group: Members Posts: 275 Joined: 14-December 04 From: Byron Bay, Australia Member No.: 7,128 |
Locallypwned,
You and I are basically in agreement, however I always enjoy throwing a small spanner in the works. You mentioned a "return to the moon" Well now, I am not totally convinced we were ever there in the first place. I have just a small doubt. I would like just one piece of independent confirmation. I'm thinking os a flypast by an independent nation e.g. Japn or China. I think one of them recently sent an unmanned rocket towards the moon, albeit the long way around. A picture of the lunar lander would be nice:) I love a good conspiracy theory. Gets the blood moving and the imagination up and running. And best of all....what if it's true? Be still my heart...lol This post has been edited by Constantine: Jan 30 2007, 10:17 PM -------------------- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
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Jan 30 2007, 11:08 PM
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#21
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Feed me some spyware! Group: Banned Posts: 4,557 Joined: 18-July 04 From: USA Ware Shoals SC Member No.: 1,500 |
Come on now you dont believe we went to the moon and they are sending bots to mars?
I wonder who came up with the idea it was staged. |
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Jan 31 2007, 02:15 AM
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#22
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 "Bleepin' Aussie Addict" Group: Members Posts: 2,083 Joined: 14-October 06 From: SYDNEY-AUSTRALIA Member No.: 90,018 |
Everybody is entitled to their opinion regarding landing on the Moon.Personally I have allways doubted that we actually landed on the moon.I believe if in fact we did,why haven't we been back numerous times and have a base there,since 1969.given the importance and publicity this event was given at the time.Don't go much on the Moon landing videos either.All seems a bit suss to me.As Constantine says,I also would like to see some independant Data.
--------------------  I once had a life.. now I have the Internet... |
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Jan 31 2007, 07:43 AM
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#23
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 416 Joined: 2-March 06 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 57,604 |
At the risk of turning this thread into "Moon Landing: Hoax? Thread #2," since the goal of the Space Race was, for both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R., to assert technological dominance, I doubt that faking a failed attempt to reach the moon would have been particularly useful.
This post has been edited by locally pwned: Jan 31 2007, 07:43 AM -------------------- "The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking." - Albert Einstein
"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands." - Douglas Adams |
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Jan 31 2007, 09:41 AM
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#24
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Feed me some spyware! Group: Banned Posts: 4,557 Joined: 18-July 04 From: USA Ware Shoals SC Member No.: 1,500 |
Of course they are DSTM. I cant believe so many people dont believe we went to the moon.
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Jan 31 2007, 10:31 AM
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#25
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"Bleepin' Aussie Addict" Group: Members Posts: 2,083 Joined: 14-October 06 From: SYDNEY-AUSTRALIA Member No.: 90,018 |
QUOTE(cowsgonemadd3 @ Feb 1 2007, 01:41 AM)  Of course they are DSTM. I cant believe so many people dont believe we went to the moon. If you read my post,I never said you didn't,I said I had doubts about it. I believe, if the US was sending Man to the Moon,they would have made many unmanned flights first.It's the old Phrase.Tell someone often enough and eventually they will believe it.At the time there was a fierce space race going on between Russia and the USA.For the US to have been beaten by Russia,would have damaged pride and reputation.IMHO. I am entitled to my opinion and it wont change till more convincing evidence comes to light. One way of finding out is to make every person and astronaught involved at the time,have a series of polygraph tests,which in my mind would never be allowed for obvious reasons. One example that is funny to me is that our Parkes Telescopes had the best view of the moon at that time. Why, 5 hrs before landing,did the US tell them to shut down all transmission of this historic event? Anyway if you did land on the moon,Good on you.  This Wiki Link makes for some interesting reading on the subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_L...oax_accusations This post has been edited by DSTM: Jan 31 2007, 10:45 AM -------------------- I once had a life.. now I have the Internet... |
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Jan 31 2007, 04:13 PM
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#26
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Forum Regular Group: Members Posts: 275 Joined: 14-December 04 From: Byron Bay, Australia Member No.: 7,128 |
Just one tiny little spanner.....
-------------------- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
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Jan 31 2007, 04:34 PM
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#27
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 416 Joined: 2-March 06 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 57,604 |
QUOTE(Constantine @ Jan 31 2007, 01:13 PM) Just one tiny little spanner..... You know, I had to look up the word "spanner." I assumed it was some kind of tool from the context; also because I remember the term "hyper-spanner" from Star Trek. 
-------------------- "The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking." - Albert Einstein
"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands." - Douglas Adams |
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Jan 31 2007, 08:01 PM
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#28
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Forum Regular Group: Members Posts: 275 Joined: 14-December 04 From: Byron Bay, Australia Member No.: 7,128 |
Sorry about that locallypwned,
Spanner is the Australian term for monkey wrench I think. It seems I threw another monkey wrench in the works by my use of the term "spanner" Im getting dizzy. -------------------- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
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Feb 1 2007, 02:40 AM
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#29
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"Bleepin' Aussie Addict" Group: Members Posts: 2,083 Joined: 14-October 06 From: SYDNEY-AUSTRALIA Member No.: 90,018 |
Hi Constantine,From reading your posts you have a habit of throwing "A Little Spanner"
-------------------- I once had a life.. now I have the Internet... |
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Feb 1 2007, 04:38 PM
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#30
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Forum Regular Group: Members Posts: 275 Joined: 14-December 04 From: Byron Bay, Australia Member No.: 7,128 |
Hello DSTM,
Thanks for noticing:) Tossing spanners may seem pointless, but I feel you need tools to properly diagnose a problem before you can even start to fix it. -------------------- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
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