BleepingComputer.com: P2P

unloaded, on Jan 2 2007, 09:40 PM, said:

I primarily use FF, and occasionally IE. I find IE7 to be quite different from FF.

RE: Sandbox: This is a type of program that allows you to install software and so-forth on your computer and when finished simply delete and close and supposedly your computer registry etc. isn't changed at all. I've never used it though, so I'm not clear on the specifics.

Re: P2P: I've never used P2P, and I do have Open Office by the way. Good part of P2P from my understanding - it is a means for lesser known artists to become known by providing samples of their work. This may actually generate sales of the work and generate more income producing opportunities for them. Bad part, there is a lot of pirated material in P2P networks, and a great deal of the material is infected with all sorts of bad stuff which is why BleepingComputer recommends not using most of them.

Orange Blossom

Walkman said:

I think to place the blame directly on IE is quite incorrect. What you are failing to understand is that any popular software will be targeted. For a long time internet explorer was the only browser available; malware writers and hackers will target the most popular software so that their creations are distributed all over the world on people's computers. I do agree that at the moment it is easier to get infected through internet explorer, but the more people move onto browsers such as firefox, the more these new browsers will be targeted. Only in the past few months have we seen a huge increase in the number of targets against the firefox software. There seems to be a conception that FireFox is infallible - You can still get infected using any other browser. Maybe not as easily, granted. But to say "That browser alone will get you infected." is not altogether accurate, and misleading to less informed users.

For example, the Rcsr Exploit that surfaced a while back hit firefox users much harder than IE users. This was because of the way Firefox automatically fills in the request forms once the page is viewed or if the user inputs a username help in the password manager cache. This was uncovered with Firefox 2.0, an attack specifically aimed at Firefox users. This is just one example of a whole host of attacks. I guarantee you that as Firefox becomes becomes more popular the more it will be attacked. I'm not saying that Internet Explorer is a more secure browser than Firefox, because it boils down to the fact that it isn't.

Being a Firefox vigilante is not what The HJT Team is about. It's about helping those who have become infected get cleaned up and teaching them how to arm themselves, not make Firefox converts out of everyone. A lot of infected links that I deal with will infect a firefox browser as well as internet explorer. I myself use internet explorer and swear by it. I have used for a long time and have never had any problem with it and have no thoughts on changing.

The "main point" which you talk about is not the security of internet explorer, it should be about educating users about the dangers of the internet. If users could learn about simple steps to staying secure online, malware writers would have a much tougher time infecting users. As a HJT team member I recommend users to read links about staying secure online with differing browsing habits, not changing browsers. I think many people could be offended with you demanding users to install Firefox before you help them, as many many people I know swear by it.

I originally had a handful of links highlighting my point, but a simple google search will uncover the exploits and infections targetted at Firefox users.

D-Trojanator, on Jan 4 2007, 11:40 AM, said:

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1. I never placed any blame DIRECTLY on M$. IE simply doesn't help in fighting viruses or such while surfing.
2. I do realize that any software can, and is most likely targeted when they're competing with others. I'm totally aware of that.
3. You can get infected using any browser, and I agree. But of all browsers out there, I stand by my own research and testing, documentations, and trials and errors, that IE is the most insecure browser out there, and the one that will get you infected before any other browsers will.

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Read no# 3. My claim about IE is accurate --- down to the bone. I know IE, and I've been using it for around 10 years.

To me, misleading is when people don't take the time to inform others of the "alternatives". That's misleading. I tell people what I know, what I've experienced, and what I recommend. Everyone is FREE to make their own decisions on what they use,, but I at least inform them of it. Do you recommend others to at least TRY using another browser?, or do you never mention it, although they have problems up the ying-yang when using IE?

Also, if I ever mislead anyone, I'll personally apologize, and at the same time, I know I'd get a PM or such from BleepComputer. And as of this date....... it hasn't happened, and that's because I don't mislead people, I just have a difference of opinion and research results than others. That doesn't make me misleading anyone at all. Remember, I'm entitled to give my opinion as long as I'm not offending and (or) disrupting this site and its members and staff.

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The last sentence in bold truly said it all. And if I'm reading it correctly, you, yourself agree that Firefox is more secure than IE. That happened to be my point to the reply of this thread, and I'm so glad you recognized it.

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If you understood my reply, I didn't indicate at all that if they said they wouldn't use Firefox, I wouldn't help them. I said my condition on helping them is for them to use Firefox AFTER they've been helped. If that part wasn't clear on my end, I'm sorry and I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

Why wouldn't you want anyone to try something different? Why would you want them to continue to use and do the same things, and then come back and complain because they're infected? Why?

There is a true thing called "process of elimination".... and I can't vouch for you as to how much you implement it yourself, but that's all I do. It's almost like the "first intuition"... which normally will steer you in the right direction, but not following it, you normally find yourself in a rut.

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The MAIN point I talk about IS security, and IE provides none of that, at least not at a stand point of someone wanting to protect themselves from malicious harm that viruses, trojans, worms and so forth bring on to them.

I am/could be amongst the best of the HJT Team that educates people to help people with their browsing habits, and that includes which browsers one SHOULD USE.... I love to help in anything, but I don't want my help to be in vain. I want my help to help...... NOT supply some type of quick fix, just to bring them back for more fixes..... I say "If you're going to help....... help!"..... It's as simple as that. And NEVER informing others that there are other browsers out there instead of IE is NOT helping, in my opinion. What are you scared of?.... let others know they can try out another browser that has been proven to be more secure than IE. Why wouldn't you want others to know that?

I stand my my words, tests, researches, trials and errors.... and that it is concluded that Internet Explorer WILL get you infected quicker than any other browser out there. It's that simple. And trust me..... I know. If IE is that good and secure, I'd be the 1st to say so. But it's not. It's unsafe for browsing, and for those that don't have to compare web pages.

Consider yourself lucky if you've never had any problems using IE. You must be one of the lucky 10 or so out of 100. Not everyone is computer savvy. Not everyone knows the right from wrong..... surfing the Internet. So, if they don't know, why would anyone want them to keep doing what they've been doing........ especially without letting them know that there are "alternatives" out there?

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I have not only links, but I have ACTUAL videos going to certain sites, and then seeing as you're being infected using IE. You can trust IE all you want, but it's only fair to allow others to see and experience other browsers. Now that's NOT misleading at all, and I'm sure many would agree with it too.

Also, on the last quote above........ that very well may be true. But how many links do you think there are out there that uncovers the exploits of IE? I'd say the results listing will be much longer than Firefox. But I know you'll say Firefox hasn't been out there longer than IE.

Internet Explorer is less safer to use than Firefox, and it has been already proven.


D-Trojanator,
Thanks for your reply in this thread, and you've made some valid points. And you made another good point... well, actually a perfect point............ and that is people need to be educated on surfing and browser using. I couldn't agree more with that.

Thanks again BleepingComputer for all of your help and support that you offer here.