BleepingComputer.com: Communism V. Capitalism

[quote]I think democracy has lost it's way,when Negative and Attack adds are allowed as the norm.
On a TV documentary here the other day,a US senator was being interviewed.When asked "why do you lie so much?" His answer was "Because we are allowed to." To me,this doesn't give me confidence in any government,mine or yours.[/quote]
agreed. negative attacks are rampant. i dont want to hear what you hate, i want to hear how you can fix it.

But they don't know HOW to fix it. Half of them don't even know it's broken in the first place.
Cheers,
John

I came across the below ages ago when researching stuff for history - and have lost the 'source' - so please look at it with a curious but cautious eye - gentle smile.

Anyway, whether communism or capitalism can be combined or not (wishful thinking on my part, I guess), it would seem that becoming a member of the Masons greatly increases one's chance of becoming a world leader?
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1789-1797 George Washington, 1st. President of the United States? (F) Confirmed Mason. Initiated: November 4, 1752, Fredericksburgh (Fredericksburg) Lodge No. 4, Fredericksburg, Virginia. Brother Washington became Worshipful Master on December 20, 1788, and was inaugurated President of the United States on April 30, 1789, thus becoming the first, and so far the only, Brother to be simultaneously President and Master of his Lodge. Washington took his oath of office as President, April 30, 1789, on the bible belonging to St. johns Lodge No. 1 of New York City. (The New Age Magazine, January 1953, pg. 44) The New Age Magazine is a Masonic publication.

1801-1809 Thomas Jefferson, 3rd. President of the United States (DR) Confirmed Illuminati & Mason. (Masonic Edition, Holy Bible 1951 Edition)

1809-1817 James Madison, 4th. President of the United States (DR) Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21) Madison is said to have been a Member of Hiram Lodge No. 59, Westmoreland County, Virginia.

1817-1825 James Monroe, 5th. President of the United states (DR) Confirmed Mason. (The New Age Magazine, January 1953, pg. 44) Initiated: November 9, 1775, St. John's Regimental Lodge in the Continental Army.

1829-1837 Andrew Jackson, 7th. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Mason. (The New Age Magazine, January 1953, pg. 44) Initiated: The record for Brother Jackson has not been located. He seems to have been a Member of St. Tammany Lodge No. 1, Nashville, Tennessee, as early as 1800. It was the first Lodge in Tennessee, organized in 1789, under a Dispensation from the Grand Lodge of North Carolina. The name was later changed to Harmony Lodge No. 1 on November 1, 1800. Brother Jackson is officially listed as a Member in the Lodge Return to the Grand Lodge of North Carolina and Tennessee for 1805. On December 27, 1813, the Grand Lodge of Tennessee was granted its own Constitution. Brother Jackson was the sixth Grand Master of Masons of Tennessee, serving from October 7, 1822 until October 4, 1824.

1841-1845 John Tyler, 10th. President of The United States (Whig) after the death of William H. Harrison. Confirmed Mason. (Masonic Edition, Holy Bible 1951 Edition)

1845-1849 James K. Polk, 11th. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Mason. (The New Age Magazine, January 1953, pg. 44) Initiated: June 5, 1820, Columbia Lodge No. 31, Columbia, Tennessee.

1849-1850 Zachary Taylor, 12th. President of the United States (Whig) Confirmed Mason. Also a member of the Knights Of The Garter.

1853-1857 Franklin Pierce, 14th. President of the United states (D) Confirmed Mason. (Masonic Edition, Holy Bible 1951 Edition)

1857-1861 James Buchanan, 15th. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Mason. (The New Age Magazine, January 1953, pg. 44) Initiated: December 1l, 1816, Lodge No. 43, Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

1865-1869 Andrew Johnson, 17th. President of the United States (D) National Union Party." Confirmed Mason. (The New Age Magazine, January 1953, pg. 44)

1881 James A. Garfield, 20th. President of The United States ® Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21) Initiated: November 19, 1861, Magnolia Lodge, No. 20, Columbus, Ohio.

1897-1901 William McKinley, 25th. President of the United States ® Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21) Initiated: May 1, 1865, Hiram Lodge No. 21, Winchester, Virginia.

1901-1909 Theodore Roosevelt, 26th. President of the United States ® Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21) Initiated: January 2, 1901, Matinecock Lodge No. 806, Oyster Bay, New York.

1909-1913 William Howard Taft, 27th. President of the United States ® Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21) Initiated: February 18, 1909. Brother Taft was made a "Mason at Sight" within the Body of Kilwinning Lodge No. 356, Cincinnati, Ohio, by Grand Master Charles S. Hoskinson.

1921-1923 Warren G. Harding, 29th. President of the United States ® Confirmed Mason. Initiated: June 28, 1901, Marion Lodge No. 70, Marion, Ohio.

1933-1945 Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Mason and Illuminati Puppet. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21) Roosevelt was Initiated: October 11, 1911, Holland Lodge No. 8, New York City.

1945-1953 Harry S. Truman, 33rd. President of The United States (D) Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21)

1963-1969 Lyndon B. Johnson, 36th. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21)

1974-1977 Leslie Lynch King, Jr. aka. Gerald R. Ford. 38th. President of the United States ® Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21)

1981-1989 Ronald Reagan, 40th. President of the United States ® Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies, William T. Still, pg. 21) Vice President George Bush,1981-1989. Confirmed Mason.

1989-1993 George H. W. Bush, 41st. President of the United States ® Confirmed Mason.

1993-2000 William J. Clinton, 42nd President of the United States, Confirmed Mason.

I report you decide.

The site which this came from is now offline. So no linking here eiether.

[quote]Communist Goals (1963)

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.[/quote]

Have any of the above goals been accomplished? Hmm...
Truth is that communism has already entrenched itself into our country. Will it ever succeed into becoming a full-fledged goal I don't know. I certainly hope not. But it surely won't be for the lack of trying.

Extra info. BTW The a.c.l.u was deliriously happy when the Democrats won. I wonder why?
[quote]Earl Browder was general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States from 1930 through its dissolution in 1944. When the party was reconstituted as the Communist Political Association later that year, Browder was chosen as its president. Browder proudly proclaimed that the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party. To deny the ACLU's founding was attached at the hip to communist organizations is to deny what can easily be proven as truth.
[url="http://www.mfc.org/contents/article.asp?id=1509"]http://www.mfc.org/contents/article.asp?id=1509[/url][/quote]

This post has been edited by Scarlett: 16 November 2006 - 10:13 PM

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.

Churchill

Hey,

My opinon is a bit different but hey it is mine and you asked for it lol.



Call this a type of Communisim (TOSMUNISIM) lol.

First of all.... just as in communisim every one will have a fixed pay, unlike it however they will all be the same. So that no one will have more money than another unless they spend it on anything they like.

Second of all, the economy is controled by the government. Making it imposible for one company to have more power than another. The stock market wouldn't crash and the economy would be backed by silver (like the old days lol).

Thirdly, there would be no single leader (or head) of government (i.e. Prime Minister, or President). There would be a group of 11 people. These will be everyday people that know what the people of the country would want. The eleventh person would be a represenative to the UN or something similar. The eleventh person would also be used to break a tie vote on a certain issue.

Fourthly, The eleven people will be cycled every 2 years by a vote of canadits (no requirment to run except to be a citizen that is trusted)

Sounds a little crazy and isn't perfect but it is my opinion.

-needTOS

(Also, I agree state your opnion. We don't bite. (much) lol j/k)

onfortuneatly with everyone having a fixed pay there is no drive. a person selling bread is making as much as an astro-pysicist. so there is no real need to do your job well becuase you will recieve the same amount of pay no matter how good or bad of a job you do.

second is as soon as thoses eleven people are elected they are above the worker class thus everyone is not equal (i recamend reading the book animal farm).

those are just thoughts, there needs to be a comunistic society with a capitalistic drive, i'm not sure how to meld that together though.

hmm..... I will think on this one and get back to you.

-needTOS

Since im russian ill tell u that neither system will work....... Communism works only as an idea in reality it drives people mad from amount of that they get over others...... Capitalism is bad morally because really what u do is caring about other but only for your own profit, which will cause other in disliking u... so if it was possible to mix those 2......

Can anyone tell me what a socialist government is? I heard it is between communism and democracy?

If so why not that?

-needTOS

One thing before I answer your question. Your mixing up the types of systems here.

Democracy, dictatorship, and monarchy are types of government.

Communism, socialism, and capitalism are types of society.

You cannot compare apples to oranges...

Theoretically you could have a democracy/communism type of country.


Socialism
[quote name='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism']Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control.[1] This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or it may be indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often associated with state, community or worker ownership of the means of production.[/quote]

Cow metaphors;
Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes one of your cows and gives it to your neighbor. You're both forced to join a cooperative where you have to teach your neighbor how to take care of his cow.

Bureaucratic Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as its regulations say you should need.

Pure Communism: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

Russian Communism: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.

Communism: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk. You wait in line for you share of the milk, but it's so long that the milk is sour by the time you get it.

Capitalism: You have two cows. You lay one off, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when she drops dead.



=====
[url="http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t20666.html"]http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/lofi...php?t20666.html[/url] <== very good discussion on socialism vs. capitalism

[quote]anyway, i like social democracy...You have 2 cows. You sell both to the rich. The government then taxes the rich one cow and gives it to the poor.
But in Australia, you have two cows. The government nationalizes your herd to control the price of milk and level the playing field for consumers. Each cow has a calf and they grow into cows. The milkers union stage a strike to protest the increase in the number of milk cows. A new party comes to power and the economic rationalists privatize your herd to control the price of milk and level the playing field for producers. The government orders the slaughter of two cows to cut production and control the price of milk.You throw a huge beef barbie, with beer, invite the milkers union, and give a speech espousing the merits of a level playing field. You still have two cows.[/quote]

=========

[quote name='USSR1943']those are just thoughts, there needs to be a comunistic society with a capitalistic drive, i'm not sure how to meld that together though.[/quote]
That would be the best system. Where everyone would be treated the same. Everyone would have the same healthcare coverage, same medical coverage, same insurance. However, could hold there own money and strive to earn and buy what her/she pleases.

This post has been edited by yano: 28 November 2006 - 10:23 PM

Although, I do not believe in communism, it was only around for 90 years before it died. While capitalistism was first started in the 1200's with the Magna Carta. Democracy was given 800 years. We will never know if communism could become what was proposed in theory by people like Karl Marx because it died in such a short amount of time. However, its extinction can be proof that it is not viable in practise.

This post has been edited by rsd79: 30 December 2006 - 10:08 PM

Neither system seems perfect. Perhaps something with the best qualities of both would be useful?

[quote name='DSTM' post='383493' date='Oct 31 2006, 10:51 PM']Like most of you,I would like our world to be in better shape than it is.
Having limited knowledge about Communism,and feel that Capitalism
has it's shortcomings,I would like to pose this question to the learned.
Would it be feasible, to take the best of both, to make a way of life that's
better for all of us,or is Communism and Capitalism so vastly different,
that it would be impossible to implement?

DSTM.[/quote]
I posed this question back in post 6.Since neither Communism (shortlived)or Capitolism
has been really successfull,as you say,and I agree with you Constantine,maybe it's time
to have a look at combining the best qualities of the two,and see if it's feasible.

It really would be wonderful if a political party actually cared more about what was best (most wanted/most needed) rather than staying in 'power'.

For instance, our government put a plan into place a plan called 'GST rebate' (tax rebate for those earning below a certain income each year). Yet the best of plans have gone astray as even the wealthy are often getting this rebate cheque every 3 or 4 months. (E.g. My mother-in-law is a lovely lady but has more money than most of us combined - but after tax breaks, etc, she has an income that is taxable that drops her into the catagory where she actually gets these government rebate cheques each year).

Realize there is no 'easy answer' but agree that perhaps the good from both (Communism and Capitalism) could surely not hurt, considering the condition so many of our Countries are in right now.