BleepingComputer.com: Possible Cooling Issue

I am not super experienced with computers so bear with me. I have an HP Pavillion m9350f. It does not come with a front or side fan. The power supply on this PC is 460 watts. It has 6 gigs of DDR2 ram and an AMD X4 9850 Phenom Quad core processor. It also has a Nvidia 9800 GT video card and I am running Windows Vista SP2 Home Premium. My fans (I believe it is either the power supply fan or the processor one) makes loud noises like it is spinning very fast. This happens every so often especially when I am running a PC game like The Sims 2. If I run Photoshop or another program it does it and sometimes while I am simply surfing the internet it does it as well. It is on and off. I poked around online looking for possible reasons and came up with dusting it out. I have cleaned it out and it still spins hard. I am thinking that it is possible that the cooling is insufficient. I am also having problems running my Sims 2 game now. It will crash on me after about 15 minutes of play. I figured maybe it was the amount of downloads I have (over 32,000) so I removed duplicate files and cleaned up half a gig and the game ran for a few hours but then stopped working again and still the fan spins hard. Then I figured it is getting hot so I downloaded Cpuid to check the temps. As of right now the processor temps are around 54°C and the video card is 83°C. I decided to check the resource monitor and the temps when running my game and the temps were about what they are now (processor went up to like 63) but I noticed that the RAM usage was climbing up fast and when it got to about 5gbs the game stopped again. I also get sluggish internet at times where that silly little blue circle just spins and spins after I have clicked on a link and does nothing. I am not sure what the problem could be. Do I purchase more fans? Do I replace the power supply or add ram? I haven't a clue. I know that cooling issues are common with the model PC that I have and have heard that AMD processors get hot faster. I don't know about the video card. That seemed a high temp. I don't know what I should do to resolve the problem. Like I said before I am not experienced with components and such at all.

What you are describing sounds like classic overheating issues. How and what did you clean inside the case?

Is this a 64-bit version of Vista?

dc3, on 23 October 2010 - 04:48 AM, said:

Yes it is the 64-bit version of Vista. When I dusted it out I used was those dust cans making sure to hold them upright so as to not damage the motherboard. I also used a q-tip to remove clumps of dirt and dust out of the cooling unit for the processor which was found just inside the fan blades. The first time I had dusted the PC (a few months back) it took care of this noise that had been a persistent problem once before. The computer ran quiet for a while. When it started making noises again I figured it was time to dust it out again but now it is still humming along every now and then or when I run applications.

Did you remove the heat sink and fan assembly on the CPU when you cleaned it?

Does the graphics card have a fan on it? If it does, have you cleaned it out as well?

Does the computer run cooler with the side panel off?

What kind of noise is this? Squeaking, clicking,...?

I removed the cpu fan unit off of processor without unplugging anything (I just kind of undid the hinges or whatever those things are that latch it to the procesor and lifted it up a bit to dust it)... and just dusted it off and i used the air can thing on the fan of the video card (without removing anything). I didn't take anything a part because I don't know much about the assembly and I didn't want to mess anything up or not be able to put it back where it goes properly. I didn't run the computer with the side panel off but I did put a small floor fan facing the side of it to blow air on it which seemed to help a little. There is no clicking noises just the sound of the fan getting louder and then going quiet again. No squeaking or clicking just the sound the fan makes when it is spinning faster or working harder.

If you removed the heat sink and fan from the CPU you need to reapply the thermal compound that goes between the CPU and the heat sink. The thermal compound enhances the thermal convection between the heat spreader of the CPU and the flat surface of the heat sink. With out a proper application of this compound the CPU could overheat.

Okay... I will do that... but I failed to mention that when I had removed the unit from the processor... the flat plate part had what appeared to be a thin layer of the top of the processor stuck to it. When you look at the processor itself... the top of it is just plain grey without any labeling. How would I clean that plate part properly without ruining anything so that I could apply this compound the right way? Sorry if I seem totally clueless but I really am. Should I add more fans... this case does not have a front or side fan like other PC's I owned in the past. It doesn't even have a cut out on the side panel for a fan to be placed there. Originally I was considering just purchaing a new cooling unit for the processor and a new power supply. I was also going to look into those fans that attach to video cards. What would you reccomend?

Your graphics seems to be running pretty hot.

jazzyul23, on 23 October 2010 - 04:12 PM, said:

First you will need to purchase a good thermal compound, Arctic Silver is a quality product which you can purchase online or from most any store that carries computer parts.

The computer will need to be turned off, and I would suggest even going so far as to unplug it from the wall. There are electronics inside the case that are very susceptible to electrostatic discharges. To protect your computer, touch the metal of the case to discharge yourself of any electrostatic charges before touching any of the components inside.

To clean the surfaces of the CPU and heat sink you can use a credit card or other plastic card to scrape the excess compound from the surfaces. You can use isopropyl alcohol to clean the residue that remains. I would suggest that you be careful not to scratch the surface of the CPU. When you apply the thermal compound you will only need a very small amount, about the size of a grain of rice. Apply it to the metal surface of the CPU and spread it evenly and then reattach the heat sink and fan assembly.

I wouldn't bother with re-applying thermal compound. It will make a negligible difference.

That HP Pavillion m9350f is going to get warm. It doesn't have very good airflow. That 9800GT has a small heatsink and most likely it is clogged up. Did you use any canned air to blow out that heatsink?

JonM33, on 23 October 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

jazzyul23, on 23 October 2010 - 11:45 AM, said:

If they removed the heat sink and fan assembly form the CPU and didn't reapply the thermal compound, and are now experiencing overheating, I would certainly have to believe that this isn't just coincidental to characteristics of the CPU.

JonM33, on 23 October 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

While the cooling ability of the overall design is critical and in this case possibly inadequate, IMO, makes it all the more reason to pay attention to detail.

If the OP has removed the heat sink then proper cleaning of the old thermal paste and reapplication of a quality paste is critical. Especially critical if this is an older machine. The mostly generic paste used by OME`s does dry out and lose it`s conductive ability over time. In particular when cooling is already border line minimum.

I have personally seen a drop of several degrees F when doing this and using Artic 5. Even a larger temp. drop was achieved when using a diamond dust based paste. The brand escapes me at the moment.

This post has been edited by ThunderZ: 23 October 2010 - 10:10 PM

dc3, on 23 October 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

As long as he didn't remove the TIM that was there, then there will not be a problem. He said he lifted it a little to get at the dust.

I'm asking about the heatsink on the graphics card because it uses a stock and crappy heatsink that's a single PCI slot in thickness and also has a small, high pitched fan. If it only does it when he's gaming then I'd be concerned that it is clogged up and overheating when he's in the game. Besides, The Sims 2 isn't exactly going to max out a quad core CPU to make it overheat. The game came out in 2004 and minimum requirements were an 800MHz CPU and 256MB RAM. Do you believe that his quad core is cooking or slightly chuckling at that load?

ThunderZ, on 23 October 2010 - 10:04 PM, said:

He removed the CPU fan per his indication. Is he talking about the entire heatsink or just the fan? He said he lifted it (heatsink or fan) just enough to blow out the dust. When you lift it and put it back, the original TIM is still there. It doesn't evaporate.

A few degrees Fahrenheit is 1 degree Celsius. THAT is not a difference in overheating.

Just saying, I wouldn't go advise him to get some thermal compound when we haven't isolated other problems. Also, it would be what, $10 he'd use once and never again?

This post has been edited by JonM33: 23 October 2010 - 11:35 PM

Not going to debate here.

If the OP removed the processor then, IMO, the purchase reapplication of a quality compound is money well spent. Considering the replacement cost of the other part, processor, it is cheap insurance. To make the blanket statement "I wouldn't bother with re-applying thermal compound. It will make a negligible difference." Can be and is extremely misleading to many.

1 degree C or several degrees F can be the difference in a thermal triggered shut-down as well as a longer\shorter component life expectancy.

This isn't a competition to me. I'm simply trying to ensure that this person has the best advice possible, even if it means he saves $10.

If he didn't remove the previous TIM then what would adding more do? Just because you lift up the heatsink it doesn't remove the old TIM. It will still be on there. Despite common belief, you do not need to re-apply thermal compound every time you lift a heatsink up.

Did you miss the part about that game (which crashes) only needing a single core 800MHz CPU? There's no way that The Sims 2 is causing his CPU to overheat. Why not ask him to run Prime 95 and see if he gets any errors? That's free and will test ONLY the CPU and not the graphics card.

All I am saying is that we should eliminate all variables before suggesting that he get something that he may not even need.