BleepingComputer.com: New System in the works

I have been hoping to build for some time now( about 9 years lol ). So I went out and found the case i had been eying for acouple years and laid out the cash. Sort of as a motivational piece. I have been looking to build a mid range gaming and video / audio , capable box.

ASUS Crosshair III Formula AM3 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #:Crosshair IIIFormula
Item #:N82E16813131392
Return Policy:Limited Replacement Only Return Policy
In Stock
$199.99 $199.99
. .
Update17-379-009 ZALMAN ZM1000-HP 1000W Continuous @ 45°C (Maximum Continuous Peak: 1250W) ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V V2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire ... - Retail
Model #:ZM1000-HP
Item #:N82E16817379009
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$199.99 -$35.00 Instant $164.99
. .
Update19-103-674 AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGIBOX - Retail
Model #:HDZ955FBGIBOX
Item #:N82E16819103674
Return Policy:CPU Replacement Only Return Policy
In Stock
$165.99 $165.99
. .
Update20-104-163 Kingston HyperX 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model KHX1333C7D3K4/8GX - Retail
Model #:KHX1333C7D3K4/8GX
Item #:N82E16820104163
Return Policy:Memory Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$239.99 $239.99
. .
Update32-116-754 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
Model #:GFC-00599
Item #:N82E16832116754
Return Policy:Software Return Policy
In Stock
$104.99 $104.99
Subtotal: $875.95

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Add To Cart. Delete.

This is what I've listed in the eggs wish section now but all is up to debate.

The Mobo, seems capable and addaptable although 1 x PCI seems like to few, but PCIx1 x 3 may be the future? slot placement my not be to bad(blockage wise, w/ X fired GPUs). Not sure of the sound arangment and whether or not i could install a better audeo solution in its slot (black top pciex1).

The CPU sounds to be a solid O.C.able piece? and at its stock settings is reliable( should work with board and bios ). IDK is it a mild mistake to not go with the 965 BE.

A Zalman 1000w er , may be over kill for now but future additions (xfired,blue-ray,hard drives, 140w BE)maybe not so much. It seems to have awsome specs at mid usage ratings and is almost flat silent there.

The RAM listed is what was offered as a combo pairing but i think its a compromise. The board is capable of using 1600 (O.C.). I list the 1333 as a four some but I'm not sure of the benefit of the 8g 1333 v 1600, in a pair for now. Would it be best to go with the 1600 and over clock it from the get go?

I know it takes great time to look at these build mock ups, so i thank you for doings so. I haven't really set any thing in stone but the case (Smilidon dirk tooth, mid, 120mm frt/bk) its inspiring to me.

thanks again.

I went to ASUSs web site to do some more research on compatibility and such, and found the supported CPU list. It list the following units and the BIOS versions as:

Phenom IIX4 955 (HDX955FBK4DGI),3.2GHz,125W,rev.C2,SocketAM3,Quad-Core ALL 0601

Phenom IIX4 955 (HDX955FBK4DGM),3.2GHz,125W,rev.C3,SocketAM3,Quad-Core ALL 1003

Phenom IIX4 955 (HDZ955FBK4DGI),3.2GHz,125W,rev.C2,SocketAM3,Quad-Core ALL 0302

The 955 at the egg, is model:

HDZ955FBGIBOX - Retail
Model #:HDZ955FBGIBOX .....

Does that mean that new eggs model is not supported, as of ASUSs listings. Or is the model #HDZ955FBGIBOX a mis naming maybe?
I am pretty noodish. I have read up on flashing Bios and had some coaching here but, as far as I can tell from ASUSs list, support for the model #:HDZ955FBGIBOX is not included in their available Bios updates. Any ideas?

This post has been edited by PCwarrior: 29 November 2009 - 01:31 AM

You didn't list any budget. Since you're listing the Phenom II X4 955 with a premium motherboard, I'm going to assume you have a $1000-ish budget. Since you're in AK, it doesn't really matter if you get free shipping specials since they aren't valid there. There have been a few revisions to the Phenom II line, the one that is on Newegg's site is, most likely supported since it has been out for months. Below are some suggestions, we can tweak it to match your budget.

Case: Broadway Com Corp R-800 Black thick Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Cases are mostly a style choice until you get to the huge graphics cards or decide to overclock. Full ATX cases are deeper than this and allow for the huge graphics cards. In the grand scheme of cases, aluminum cases, such as the are a little higher class than a steel case. This is a full ATX case, which will handle the large graphics cards. Perfect for future upgrades. $80

Motherboard: ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - A less expensive motherboard that is still in the 790 perforance chipset line. Most people don't need or use the uber-high end boards. This one supports AM3 CPU's, DDR3-1600, and CrossfireX with ATI cards. $129 (Before $15 mail-in rebate)

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz - This is the best CPU AMD has. It is a quad core that is unlocked, which means overclocking is simple. $185

Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W - This will provide more than enough power for a Crossfire setup. You don't need a 1000W PSU unless you are Crossfiring two X2 cards, which is silly. Beyond two GPU's, the performance gains aren't worth the added cost. With this PSU, you probably could Crossfire two 5870's, assuming you can find one. $139 (Before $30 mail-in rebate)

Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100283-2L Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Depending on the games you play, you will need better performance than what a Radeon 5750 graphics card can offer. A 5770 graphics card is roughly on par with a Radeon 4890 but is smaller, more energy efficient, produces less heat, and uses DirectX 11, which will be needed later when DX11 games start arriving. You could go for a 58xx series card, but those are very difficult to find due to supply problems. $164

RAM: CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 - This is the fastest RAM you can use for that motherboard. The motherboard can take either DDR3-1600 or DDR3-1333. Remember, you need a 64-bit OS to use 4GB or more of memory. $94

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB - Plenty of space. $80

Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - You need one. $104

Optical Drive: LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - A basic drive is all you need, unless you want Blu-Ray. $26

Optional: Aftermarket Heatsink: XIGMATEK Intel Core i7 compatible Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - This is suggested, but not required, if you plan on overclocking. $39

Total Cost: $1,047 (Before rebates, shipping, and includes the optional heatsink)

This post has been edited by DJBPace07: 29 November 2009 - 03:28 AM

Just wanted to point out theres a deal for that mobo and cpu.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDet...st=Combo.299402

:] (Found it while i was combo searching lol)

This post has been edited by Goldensage1: 29 November 2009 - 03:54 AM

Thanks for your interest.
As far as budget is concerned, sorry I wasn't clear on that. Its a grey area in this build. The grandish($1000,00+/-) guess, you assert is about correct. But with hopes of producing a box with long legs( able to please for years ) I am open to some budget push.

Case: As mentioned, I have the case I'll be in( for better or worst). Its the black w/green, no power ; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811156063 . Its based on the reasons you cite and really has no basis other than some good reviews and the fact that it turns up my will to build.

Mother board: If 70 bucks is the spread between uber and required, I'm in for the uber. Some of the slot placements and board attributes(heat piped north/south/power,not cluttered with on board vid,on board controls(power,reset) have value. If the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...1-392-_-Product , increases future ability to go where(video production, Sound mixing , CAD ) I have yet to expand to, "Uber-high" as a solid base mobo for the system, might not be a sad decision. IDK maybe the fact that new tech (like USB3,8 core, and others) coming out sooner or later might make this board a waist of 70 bucks but the current tech to go with it in the future will be cheaper at that point in time.

PSU: The Corsair is a fantastic unit, but lends no modularity to the case set up. The heat piped and semi/modular design, has me leaning toward the Zalman. A 2X GPU card with acouple fans and other hardware up and running, might very well put power consumption in the most reliable phase(50% or so) of the Zalmans output potential, at over 80% efficiency. The Zalman 1000w unit would be happy at that draw, to keep the 140mm fan at a lower rpm, keeping the PSU virtually silent (fan rpm) . Is the single 12v rail, a plus for the Corsair, or is the Zalman on par with it ?

RAM: The RAM you suggest, would be better than Kingston HyperX 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 ? I wasn't planning to OC the ram to your suggested selection. Both my Mobo pick, and yours, suggested mem, list 1600 as a OC option and IDK if the OCed 1600 with out the other 4GB is all that. Would it be just as stable and better utilizable? I understand the speed of the 1600 is of great benefit, but would gaming take a great hit from the 1333.
Yes a 64bit OS is in the plan.

Hard Drive: I'm leaning toward a, Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5". I could try and raid later, for space and non boot drive storage. The Raptor has a smaller 16mb cache and lots less storage, but my current ide units about the same size as this raptor and I don't keep alot stored there(external storage and raided slower rpm drive later maybe).

Heat Sink: CPU wise I was thinking of, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16835610009 or something like, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16835118004 ,to keep profile low enough to open Mobo side of case without removal.

Thank you, DJBPace07, and all for your continued interest. Your incite is greatly appreciated.

This post has been edited by PCwarrior: 29 November 2009 - 09:53 PM

CPU: the AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz, mentioned was my first thought. But it was pointed out that the AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core runs well and, you can set your 955 multiplier to 200mhz x 17 (Default is set on 200mhz x 16) on your Bios or overclocking software to give the same exact 3.4ghz that 965 does. Is that not the case? Both are unlocked units. I figured I'd throw the 20buck savings at the Mobo.

A few things to mention here.

The case you chose is a mid tower, not a full ATX. This means you cannot use the large graphics cards like the Radeon 5870 or higher. Well, you may be able to use one if you remove the hard drive cage and move some things around, but using Crossfire in a mid-ATX is not suggested given the thermal issues and space within the case.

The motherboard is okay, but don't think you're future-proofing yourself very much by spending the extra cash. The board doesn't take USB 3.0, you would get better audio using a dedicated card like the Xonar D2X, and most of the technology is shared with all 790 chipsets. However, the 790FX does have a few things over the 790GX. First, it has a better audio system, but you would get much better results with a drop-in card anyway. Second, it has dual PCI-Express x16 slots which both run at x16 while populated in Crossfire, whereas the 790GX two PCI-E X16 slots where one runs at X16 and the other at X8. This is only a factor if you use CrossfireX at all. All AM3 boards will be able to use any AM3 CPU that AMD produces, so long as there is a BIOS for it. This includes new six and eight core CPU's, which no application can even use, yet. You can save some money with the 790FX board by getting the GIGABYTE GA-MA790FXT-UD5P AM3 DDR3 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard instead of the Asus.

As for the PSU, modular units are helpful in keeping the cables to a minimum. However, you can simply use tie-backs to keep the extra cables out of the way and you will lose some wattage due to the modular nature of the Zalman. Quality modular PSU's will also cost a bit more. The wattage for the PSU is determined largely by a graphics card, or cards. Two 5770's require 600W, factor in an extra 100W margin and you would need 700W. If you go for the 58xx series, you would need about the same. I didn't even know Zalman made PSU's so I cannot be sure of their reputation. Corsair, however, I've heard many good things about and use in one of my PC's. If you want a modular unit from a company I've heard of and use, you can try the SILVERSTONE ST85F 850W ATX. Very few people need 1KW PSU's, those that do, usually have multiple HDD's, three or more, and several high-end, power hungry graphics cards all on an extremely overclocked system.

The RAM is fine, but you will be paying more for the 4 x 2GB Kingston kit than you would simply buying two 2 x 2GB Corsair kits. If the RAM already comes OC'd, the motherboard should set itself to the proper speed automatically with 1600 being as fast as you can go with the RAM. You won't take that big of a hit with 1333 memory, it's still plenty fast.

I don't go for the super fast HDD's, since I look more for storage capacity and cache than how fast the platters spin. There are some slight performance differences between 7500RPM and a 10K, but in actual usage, you may not be able to tell that much. For extreme speeds, you could always get a SSD, but that would blow your budget to pieces. Also, I suggest avoiding RAID for all home systems. RAID should be used for redundency and can be helpful in mission critical operations but it can lead to headaches if not setup properly. If one drive in a RAID 0 setup fails...

That Zalman fan you linked to may be a 120mm fan, I cannot find any information on size at Zalman's site, but with a height of 125mm, I assume it is. Mid ATX towers have problems with large fans in that category. Usually, 92mm fans are used in those cases. A good 92mm fan I use in my old 939 AMD system is the ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler. Well, actually, this is an updated version of that original Freezer 7.

Both CPU's are unlocked and are the same. However, the 965 operates at 140W. If you feel confident enough to overclock the 955, go ahead and save cash. All overclocking should be done in the BIOS.

This post has been edited by DJBPace07: 30 November 2009 - 12:12 AM

DJBPace07, Thanks for the help here. Clarification is a great thing, lol.

The case will be tight for dual cards with the massive length you mention, for sure. Ive taken a look at those $580+ wonders and just sighed. That rich is for the Uber-gamer with the a large bank roll. the pairs of older long cards cost about that much to. They all tie-up two slots and really kick some video butt. Ive already thought about spinning up the pair of dremels in my tool arsenal and modding the new case if needed. Where theres a will...... theres a tool. On air, it may be an act of very intricate fluid dynamic , application(air flow) . The case would have to breath in all the right spots, at all the right rates. All I'm after for now, is the one real nice (not bleeding edge) GFX card. Here is one that caught my interest, that may fit my case better(but it's wide). This Seems to be a fair review of it.
MSI OC MOD/Cooling
I checked at the Egg, and they only sport the non/OC version. A pair of them would do nicely. I'm sure there are better units out there, but MSI might play nice in my case. The Eggs offering non OC w/custom cooling. Finding some shorter units, that rear vent would be a plus.

The MoBo, for sure doesn't do usb 3(none do yet, right?) . How hot will that be? How much of a drop in price will USB 2 boards take, IYO. Will it be a card-able/add on, as well as built in? I have a PCI USB 2 added on this old beast(usb 1, blah, OE) , with a hub 2.0, attached to that.

I really like the Gigabyte you linked. It's the other unit I've been interested in. Are its 2-pcie 2.0s true 16s in xfire. They look to be(in specs). I'll look at it closer, in other resources.

The PSU, Ive been looking at Zalman review/break down is semi mod.. Its soldered connections reduced wattage loss . But as you mention, I would never pull its full potential. Another Zalman 1000 review. I'll look at lesser wattage units.

SSD, Maybe acouple of years from now when the astronomical pricing lands on earth some where . But you don't think the Raptor would net much gain? I'll look closer in to that as well. With game data loaded in drive, is it not speed intensive rendering. IDK, a cache size of 32 with slower platters may be enough to close the gap?
Thanks for the tip on Raid. I may just external, for photos and other back up stuff.

Cooling unit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA has great reviews. 3000+ and 75%@5 stars WOW! Shes not a looker though . Just real good. Thanks for the heads up.

From the specs of my 2 top board picks, I glean that they both have great OC abilities. Both have virtual Dual BIOS/ CPU Level Up. With the right tools and support( Bleeping C,and all), the answer to your question " If you feel confident enough to overclock the 955", is yes. Its probably a past due experience . You mention that the 6 and 8 cores are set for release. This I have heard as well. But to what end? Will it effect 4 core prices much?

That graphics card you linked to is old. The 5770 I linked to is new and cools better in most situations. The 5770 is nowhere near as long at the 4890 so it will fit easily into mid-ATX cases, but it usually offers the same amount of graphics horsepower. The only problem I could see with that card is in a Crossfire situation, you would need excellent cooling for the case, but it is doable. USB 3 will be backwards compatible with previous USB standards, however, you not only need a motherboard, or a drop-in card, that supports it, but also devices that do too. The Gigabyte uses the exact same chipset as the Asus, they are nearly identical. Usually, if the PCI-E X16 runs at lower speeds in a dual configuration than X16, the product descriptions list it. Do use caution with power supplies, Zalman is new to the field and it may end up being the next Corsair, or the next Rosewill. At the high wattage range, 800W or better, quality and stability becomes a major factor. PSU's in that area need very high quality parts, better parts than what is found in lower wattage units. I don't see much benefit with the faster platter drives, Windows loads many of your frequently used apps into memory to speed up response time, some games do the same. External drives are a good alternative. If you use one frequently, go for ESATA drives and add-on cards as they are much faster than USB. Releasing a six or eight core CPU should affect quad core prices, the same way it did with dual cores. Don't get too eager to use such a CPU, however. Many developers are just now starting to develop for quads with many are still developing for dual core CPUs. All software runs normally, but unless it has been designed for a quad core CPU, software running with dual core optimizations will not be able to harness the remaining two cores. Same thing with 64-bit.

This post has been edited by DJBPace07: 02 December 2009 - 04:07 PM

Thanks, Uber-lots , for the chat. Its hard to find good ppl.
I kinda feel like were having this talk in a vacuum. Not many other posters on the subject. Well thats fine, anyways. I checked out some of your other post on various subjects, and am very honored to have had a chance to bounce some tech around with you.

I noticed yesterday that there are many rants about the cap whine from the Zalman. Some think its a cap anyways. Supposedly not a terminal issue but way nerve racking. I really want a semi mod. PSU even if I never need the extra cables, or maybe thats why idk.. The soldered mobo connectors and a couple non random/ non- modular is a good way to keep air-flow unimpeded. Now I just need to find a unit I can operate in the mid range of, that is silent,has no reported whine, is semi mod, blah blah blah. lol.

It sounds like a good idea to build with the corsair ram that you linked. Instead of going with it later and having 8g of 1333 laying around. Like when i just have to try the 1600 later for speed or idk.. With MS, 7, 64-bit , pro, would 8g of 1600 play nice at boot, or would I need to set it up. I ask because its listed for both mobo as (OC) . Having to much rams not going to happen right? 16 max on both boards. I don't mind the thought of Bios tweaking, but would like to get past initial post/boot/wow stuff, or am I dreaming.

From your reaction to the 955, I get the impression, that you may think the minimal savings offered by the 955 may not be all that real. Considering the needed multiplier tweak. I need to, and will be in the bios of this new board at any rate . My question is though, given that the 965 B.E. OE is rated 3.4 then does it have longer legs than the 955. Would it be the more stable, say at 3.8 than a 955. If the chips are the same then, it may be that AMD is presenting the 965 as the most stable between the two (if there is that much quality control). Yikes, that's probably a long drawn out debate some where. just wondering your opinion.

I never got a chance to look deeper at the Vid card link. I'll check it out now. Any good reviews of the card and chip that you might have a link to? I'll google it . Yep Yep on the note about cores v apps. Even 4x like you mention, isn't fully in play yet. So I'll be good with that for a long time prob. With the relentless march of technology I'll always be on the chaise, never the leader.

Time to go pull together a updated build list. Thanks again.

This post has been edited by PCwarrior: 01 December 2009 - 07:03 PM

FWIW: Most members/frequenters don't post comments...if they basically agree with something someone has already posted.

Louis

Well thank you, Louis. We have discussed important stuff before:). With out hearing your agreement, its hard to solidify substantial support. So again thank you.

Indeed, most members don't comment if they agree with most of what is said or don't have much to offer outside the current discussion. So, take it as a good sign that there aren't many commenters. PSU's do make a whine at certain power levels, but it usually cannot be heard over the fans in the PC. Companies with a solid reputation have few problems with caps and noise in PSU's. The RAM will be fine, Windows Vista and 7 do handle it differently than XP though. They will load frequently used applications into memory for faster loading, which takes up space. But, they will let it go if an app needs the room. The 965 and 955 are the exact same CPU, just the clock speed and wattage are different. With the video card, since all cards are mass produced using roughly the same design, a review on any 5770 will be informative. Below are some links to reviews.

[H]ardOCP - AMD ATI Radeon HD 5770 and HD 5750 Review
Guru3D - Radeon HD 5770 review
Tom's Hardware - Radeon HD 5770 And 5750 Review: Gentlemen, Start Your HTPCs
Guru3D - Radeon HD 5770 in 3-way CrossfireX review (They also post benchmarks with a dual 5770 setup.)

Very nice affordable card, thanks. You mention earlier that multiple cards seemed silly ? Is that because 2X cards are out there or because they don't always result in better results?

I found a cooler I'd like your opinion on. It took some digging at the egg to get it to come up. It's available in two finishes, copper and nickel. I'm not sure of the merits of the nickel plate, other than looks. Do the copper units tarnish like a penny, loosing there luster?Idk. It seams to do the trick, and one reviewer ( using AM3, as a review filter search in reviews ) mentions his build in the same case as mine. He states the retention of both window side case fans, but doesn't mention whether or not his mobo side still is floppable (possible psu interference).

Zalman Cnps9500 green led

I'm still working the build list. But this cooler and the pics of it mounted to an Asus board ( RAM clearance, dimensional configuration ) gave me hope for a aesthetically pleasing heat solution. Do ya think it'll do?

Acouple other links for the cooler;
Review of unit w/test results
Zalman spec page

This post has been edited by PCwarrior: 04 December 2009 - 08:03 PM

More than two GPU's are silly. So a typical two GPU Crossfire setup would offer the best performance in terms of performance vs. price. For systems that don't allow for Crossfire, the X2 cards are there. For gamers with more money than they know what to do with, sometimes they Crossfire two X2 cards resulting in a quad GPU setup. With more than two GPU's, the performance increase shrinks quite a bit. Many games don't scale well past two. I have a similar CPU cooler in my PC, though it uses the model built for LGA 775 and is 120mm. It is the ZALMAN CNPS9900LED. Most of the high-end performance fans are in that category since overclockers need the best air cooling around. Also, people wanting quiet PC's go for the larger fans.