BleepingComputer.com: Soundcard related BSOD crashes- full info inside

I'm an audio engineer doing work in Windows Vista 32 bit Home Premium edition. I have an HP dv6883us with a 1.83gHz Core2Duo with 3GB of RAM.

My system has been rock solid for months, then out of nowhere I started getting BSOD crashes the past few days. These crashes always happen when using audio software. Now, I'm using the onboard sound(I do have other sound devices that are better, but for convenience when at work I just use onboard) which is a Realtek HD Audio device. I use a driver "wrapper" called ASIO4ALL(www.asio4all.com) which basically takes the WDM drivers and lets it act as an ASIO driver, which gives the best performance in audio software generally. This is a setup that thousands of people use, and I've used it with no issues for months now on this system, and on several other systems for years.

Anyways, the BSOD crashes happen randomly, but always while using audio software. Sometimes it happens when I hit the "Stop" button in the software, or whenever I perform another action. But pretty random.

Now, the ASIO4ALL just uses the onboard sound and it's drivers, and traditionally is as stable as the drivers you have. My Realtek drivers are just the ones that the computer update software itself(from HP) installed, and are the latest version. I ran the verifier.exe on the drivers, even though all audio and video drivers are already signed by Microsoft. No errors or any other signs of instability came up.

Here is my debug information:

Microsoft ® Windows Debugger Version 6.8.0004.0 X86
Copyright © Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Loading Dump File [C:\Windows\Minidump\Mini031109-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available

Symbol search path is: SRV*c:\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Executable search path is: 
Windows Kernel Version 6001 (Service Pack 1) MP (2 procs) Free x86 compatible
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS Personal
Built by: 6001.18145.x86fre.vistasp1_gdr.080917-1612
Kernel base = 0x8280a000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0x82921c70
Debug session time: Wed Mar 11 20:14:52.682 2009 (GMT-5)
System Uptime: 0 days 3:26:51.982
Loading Kernel Symbols
..................................................................................................................................................................
Loading User Symbols
Loading unloaded module list
..........
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************

Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.

BugCheck 7F, {0, 0, 0, 0}

Unable to load image RTKVHDA.sys, Win32 error 0n2
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for RTKVHDA.sys
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for RTKVHDA.sys


Probably caused by : RTKVHDA.sys ( RTKVHDA+128514 )

Followup: MachineOwner
---------

1: kd> !analyze -v
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************

UNEXPECTED_KERNEL_MODE_TRAP (7f)
This means a trap occurred in kernel mode, and it's a trap of a kind
that the kernel isn't allowed to have/catch (bound trap) or that
is always instant death (double fault).  The first number in the
bugcheck params is the number of the trap (8 = double fault, etc)
Consult an Intel x86 family manual to learn more about what these
traps are. Here is a *portion* of those codes:
If kv shows a taskGate
        use .tss on the part before the colon, then kv.
Else if kv shows a trapframe
        use .trap on that value
Else
        .trap on the appropriate frame will show where the trap was taken
        (on x86, this will be the ebp that goes with the procedure KiTrap)
Endif
kb will then show the corrected stack.
Arguments:
Arg1: 00000000, EXCEPTION_DIVIDED_BY_ZERO
Arg2: 00000000
Arg3: 00000000
Arg4: 00000000

Debugging Details:
------------------




BUGCHECK_STR:  0x7f_0

CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT:  1

DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT

PROCESS_NAME:  System

CURRENT_IRQL:  2

TRAP_FRAME:  95c60c74 -- (.trap 0xffffffff95c60c74)
ErrCode = 00000000
eax=00001800 ebx=000011f4 ecx=00000000 edx=00000000 esi=86d06bb8 edi=82bc6f60
eip=90132514 esp=95c60ce8 ebp=95c60d48 iopl=0         nv up ei pl zr na pe nc
cs=0008  ss=0010  ds=0023  es=0023  fs=0030  gs=0000             efl=00010246
RTKVHDA+0x128514:
90132514 ??              ???
Resetting default scope

LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER:  from 82a8ba98 to 828d70b5

STACK_TEXT:  
95c60c14 82a8ba98 0000007f c1b1ccde 90132514 nt!KeBugCheck+0x14
95c60c68 828627a8 95c60c74 95c60d48 90132514 nt!Ki386CheckDivideByZeroTrap+0x44
95c60c68 90132514 95c60c74 95c60d48 90132514 nt!KiTrap00+0x88
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.
95c60ce4 86d06bb8 828bddef 00000000 00000004 RTKVHDA+0x128514
95c60d48 90130db2 00000000 85e2a4e0 00000000 0x86d06bb8
95c60d7c 829dfb18 00000000 c1b1cd76 00000000 RTKVHDA+0x126db2
95c60dc0 82838a2e 90130d14 86d06bb8 00000000 nt!PspSystemThreadStartup+0x9d
00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 nt!KiThreadStartup+0x16


STACK_COMMAND:  kb

FOLLOWUP_IP: 
RTKVHDA+128514
90132514 ??              ???

SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX:  3

SYMBOL_NAME:  RTKVHDA+128514

FOLLOWUP_NAME:  MachineOwner

MODULE_NAME: RTKVHDA

IMAGE_NAME:  RTKVHDA.sys

DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP:  470b40b1

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  0x7f_0_RTKVHDA+128514

BUCKET_ID:  0x7f_0_RTKVHDA+128514

Followup: MachineOwner
---------

Any help is greatly appreciated. Nothing else has changed on my system outside of just normal transferring files. No software changes or anything. If there is anything else I need to check, please let me know. This is driving me nuts not knowing what the problem is. Thanks a ton!

Brent

The analysis says that RTKVHDA.sys is the image where the error occurred.
The date stamp on it indicates it's from Oct 2007 - which is fairly old.

I'd suggest uninstalling your RealTek audio drivers from Control Panel...Programs and Features, then install a freshly downloaded copy of the latest version of the drivers for your system.

Although there's no evidence of the ASIO4ALL program causing problems, that'd be the next thing that I'd check if the RealTek update doesn't fix things.

Thanks. I pretty much knew those drivers were the cause, but I know some people have had problems downloading "official" drivers from the Realtek site when they have a pre-built system because the HP version is customized for certain features or something. I guess I could always do it and uninstall later and start over. But the version there is the "latest" according to both HP Update and also when I hit the "update driver" button. Though I'm aware it's not the latest Realtek drivers, so I've always been a little confused about exactly what the "custom" drivers do. Probably nothing. Maybe HP Update is broken?

The odd thing is that when I did try this before, HP Update(as well as the HP support site) told me that I didn't have the latest version and it tried to install an older version! Which is why I also thought it may be custom drivers.

Anyone have any experiences with this? I guess it won't hurt anything to use the official drivers. So I'll try that and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion!

Brent

The only reason that I've found to use PC Manufacturer's drivers rather than the RealTek drivers are if there's some "value-added" feature in the PC Manufacturer's software that you must have. Otherwise, I use the drivers supplied by RealTek (but then again, I'm not an audiophile - and leave my sound off much of the time). IMO RealTek designed the chipset, so they should know best how it operates. The PC Manufacturer's add stuff to make it play well with their particular programs, but don't mess with the underlying functionality of the driver.

The only exception of note to this is when updating Hi-Definition audio on an XP system (pre-SP3). The KB888111 update is usually included in the PC Manufacturer's drivers - but not in the RealTek drivers (and the KB888111 update must be installed before installing the RealTek drivers).

Finally "Up To Date" doesn't mean that they're functioning properly. The program reads a file name/attribute and says it's the most updated - even if the rest of the program is corrupted. In cases like this it's best to uninstall the sound driver software from Control Panel...Programs and Features and then check in Device Manager to ensure that the device driver is uninstalled. Then update the drivers to see what you get.

usasma, on Mar 12 2009, 02:40 PM, said:

I'm wondering what could possibly be an essential feature that I would be missing out on if I used the official Realtek drivers. I do know that even when HP updates it, the Realtek installer still runs. It's the same installer, at least by looks and what it seems to be doing, as when I ran the manufacturer's drivers in the past. So I wonder if there really is much difference?

I wonder if I'll need KB888111 on Vista? I'll have to check my update history. I may have it already. I know I've used official drivers before.

This isn't the only audio device I ever use. It's actually the lowest quality option using onboard sound. But for convenience, I use it a lot with the ASIO cover up.

I'll post back as I try and figure things out. Thanks for the help so far.

Brent

No you won't need KB888111.

The stuff that HP packs with it is usually (I'm guessing here) to ensure functionality with things like the Quick Play feature and the special keyboard keys for audio. There's no telling exactly what it is without doing a comparison of the installs (install the RealTek first, then monitor the installation of the HP stuff to see if it changes anything else).

Thanks. That's pretty much what I am thinking. I know that in the time in the past where I did use the official Realtek drivers, I didn't notice anything significant that was wrong. So I'm going to try it. Sound drivers at least are something that won't prevent the system from running if they don't work right, so it should be easy enough to back out of it.

Brent

Ok, since last time I posted, I removed all drivers to install the latest Realtek drivers from their website. The driver in my System32 folder is dated for the time I installed it, with the "created" date as March 4th, which is when the latest drivers were released. So it's definitely a new driver.

I also ran Memtest86 and it came out with zero errors.

So what the heck could be going on? I'm so frustrated by this. The driver passes all signing(and is officially signed by MS), memory is ok, drivers are latest, and this didn't happen until a couple weeks ago. Out of nowhere, it started to happen. It's obviously the Realtek driver that is the problem as that is what is always on the BSOD and in the dump files.

So what the heck am I supposed to do? Any more ideas?

RTKVHDA.sys crashed while operating in the System process - that's really all that the dump file tells us.
Note the "probably" in the statement about what caused the error.

For example, it's possible for another piece of software to send instructions for processing to RTKVHDA.sys If those instructions are bad, then the RTKVHDA.sys module will process bad instructions. So, the place that Windows crashed may not necessarily be the location of the fault.

The first place to look would be at the unidentified location in the stack text ( 0x86d06bb8 ). To do this, re-run the dump file in the debugger. Then, at the bottom of the debugger is a place where you can type in commands. Type in "lm" (without the quotes) and press Enter. Check the list for the above memory location and let us know what's there. If you can't find it, just post the listing from the lm output and we'll have a look at it.

So, the next step is to check all of your audio aware apps to see what they're doing. I'd be particularly concerned about any drivers that they utilize. If this pursuit doesn't yield anything, then we'll have to get a bit more aggressive.

Ok, when I get home this afternoon, I'll check it out. I do know that it's happened with two or three different music apps, and I believe once yesterday with no music apps running(unless a process was lingering that I didn't see). So I'll check what you said later today and post back. Thank you for your help, I really do appreciate it.

Brent

Ok, using the same crash dump as before, here is the results of the lm command. There are newer crash dumps, but to avoid confusion I used the same one. If you need others, let me know. I do see next to the driver name, it says "no symbols". Is that just debugger error with not finding symbols, meaning the debugger couldn't recognize the text it reported? Or does that mean something on the driver level? Thanks.

1: kd> lm
start	end		module name
80601000 80609000   kdcom	  (deferred)			 
80609000 80669000   mcupdate   (deferred)			 
80669000 8067a000   PSHED	  (deferred)			 
8067a000 80682000   BOOTVID	(deferred)			 
80682000 806c3000   CLFS	   (deferred)			 
806c3000 807a3000   CI		 (deferred)			 
807a3000 807e9000   acpi	   (deferred)			 
807e9000 807f8000   partmgr	(deferred)			 
8280a000 82bc3000   nt		 (pdb symbols)		  c:\symbols\ntkrpamp.pdb\E3AF30C94A334570818A670674C7F9602\ntkrpamp.pdb
82bc3000 82bf6000   hal		(deferred)			 
82e0b000 82e87000   Wdf01000   (deferred)			 
82e87000 82e94000   WDFLDR	 (deferred)			 
82e94000 82f94000   spxg	   (deferred)			 
82f94000 82f9d000   WMILIB	 (deferred)			 
82f9d000 82fc3000   SCSIPORT   (deferred)			 
82fc3000 82fcb000   msisadrv   (deferred)			 
82fcb000 82ff2000   pci		(deferred)			 
82ff2000 82ff4900   compbatt   (deferred)			 
82ff5000 82fff000   BATTC	  (deferred)			 
8ac01000 8ac10000   volmgr	 (deferred)			 
8ac10000 8ac5a000   volmgrx	(deferred)			 
8ac5a000 8ac61000   intelide   (deferred)			 
8ac61000 8ac6f000   PCIIDEX	(deferred)			 
8ac6f000 8ac7f000   mountmgr   (deferred)			 
8ac7f000 8ad4d000   iaStor	 (deferred)			 
8ad4d000 8ad55000   atapi	  (deferred)			 
8ad55000 8ad73000   ataport	(deferred)			 
8ad73000 8ad7d000   msahci	 (deferred)			 
8ad7d000 8adaf000   fltmgr	 (deferred)			 
8adaf000 8adbf000   fileinfo   (deferred)			 
8adbf000 8addd000   TPkd	   (deferred)			 
8addd000 8adfe000   VIDEOPRT   (deferred)			 
8ae0a000 8ae7b000   ksecdd	 (deferred)			 
8ae7b000 8af86000   ndis	   (deferred)			 
8af86000 8af87000   msrpc	  (deferred)			 
8afb1000 8afeb000   NETIO	  (deferred)			 
8b006000 8b0ed000   tcpip	  (deferred)			 
8b0ed000 8b108000   fwpkclnt   (deferred)			 
8b108000 8b1682c0   timntr	 (deferred)			 
8b169000 8b198380   SynTP	  (deferred)			 
8b199000 8b1b1000   cdrom	  (deferred)			 
8b1b1000 8b1e7000   agoserjo   (deferred)			 
8b20f000 8b31e000   Ntfs	   (deferred)			 
8b31e000 8b357000   volsnap	(deferred)			 
8b357000 8b35f000   spldr	  (deferred)			 
8b35f000 8b37ad80   snapman	(deferred)			 
8b37b000 8b38a000   mup		(deferred)			 
8b38a000 8b3b1000   ecache	 (deferred)			 
8b3b1000 8b3c2000   disk	   (deferred)			 
8b3c2000 8b3e3000   CLASSPNP   (deferred)			 
8b3e3000 8b3ec000   crcdisk	(deferred)			 
8ec00000 8ec06000   bbcap	  (deferred)			 
8ec06000 8ecb5000   spsys	  (deferred)			 
8ecb5000 8ecbf000   ndisuio	(deferred)			 
8ecbf000 8ecd2000   rspndr	 (deferred)			 
8ecdb000 8ece6000   tunnel	 (deferred)			 
8ece6000 8ece8a80   loopbe1	(deferred)			 
8ece9000 8ed16000   portcls	(deferred)			 
8ed16000 8ed3b000   drmk	   (deferred)			 
8ed3b000 8ed65000   ks		 (deferred)			 
8ed65000 8ed6e000   tunmp	  (deferred)			 
8ed6e000 8ed71780   CmBatt	 (deferred)			 
8ed72000 8ed7b000   wmiacpi	(deferred)			 
8ed7b000 8ed8a000   intelppm   (deferred)			 
8ed8a000 8eddb000   rixdptsk   (deferred)			 
8eddb000 8edee000   i8042prt   (deferred)			 
8edee000 8edf9000   mouclass   (deferred)			 
8edf9000 8edfb700   GEARAspiWDM   (deferred)			 
8ee00000 8ee04180   HpqKbFiltr   (deferred)			 
8ee05000 8ee06700   USBD	   (deferred)			 
8ee08000 8f191000   NETw5v32   (deferred)			 
8f191000 8f1af000   Rtlh86	 (deferred)			 
8f1af000 8f1be200   ohci1394   (deferred)			 
8f1bf000 8f1cc080   1394BUS	(deferred)			 
8f1cd000 8f1e7000   sdbus	  (deferred)			 
8f1e7000 8f1f6000   rimmptsk   (deferred)			 
8f1f6000 8f1f7c00   HpqRemHid   (deferred)			 
8f1f8000 8f1fe380   HIDPARSE   (deferred)			 
8f600000 8f60b000   kbdclass   (deferred)			 
8f60b000 8fcc6000   igdkmd32   (deferred)			 
8fcc6000 8fd65000   dxgkrnl	(deferred)			 
8fd65000 8fd72000   watchdog   (deferred)			 
8fd72000 8fd7d000   usbuhci	(deferred)			 
8fd7d000 8fdbb000   USBPORT	(deferred)			 
8fdbb000 8fdca000   usbehci	(deferred)			 
8fdca000 8fddc000   HDAudBus   (deferred)			 
8fddc000 8fdf0000   rimsptsk   (deferred)			 
8fdf0000 8fe00000   HIDCLASS   (deferred)			 
8fe07000 8fe35000   msiscsi	(deferred)			 
8fe35000 8fe76000   storport   (deferred)			 
8fe76000 8fe81000   TDI		(deferred)			 
8fe81000 8fe98000   rasl2tp	(deferred)			 
8fe98000 8fea3000   ndistapi   (deferred)			 
8fea3000 8fec6000   ndiswan	(deferred)			 
8fec6000 8fed5000   raspppoe   (deferred)			 
8fed5000 8fee9000   raspptp	(deferred)			 
8fee9000 8fefe000   rassstp	(deferred)			 
8fefe000 8ff0e000   termdd	 (deferred)			 
8ff0e000 8ff0f380   swenum	 (deferred)			 
8ff10000 8ff1a000   mssmbios   (deferred)			 
8ff1a000 8ff27000   umbus	  (deferred)			 
8ff27000 8ff5b000   usbhub	 (deferred)			 
8ff5b000 8ff64000   kbdhid	 (deferred)			 
8ff64000 8ff75000   NDProxy	(deferred)			 
8ff75000 8ffa7000   netbt	  (deferred)			 
8ffa7000 8ffba000   wanarp	 (deferred)			 
8ffba000 8ffc4b00   SCDEmu	 (deferred)			 
8ffc5000 8ffd5000   lltdio	 (deferred)			 
8ffd5000 8ffff000   nwifi	  (deferred)			 
90000000 90008000   tifsfilt   (deferred)			 
9000a000 901e9d00   RTKVHDA  T (no symbols)		   
901ea000 901f8000   netbios	(deferred)			 
9020d000 902fd380   smserial   (deferred)			 
902fe000 9030b000   modem	  (deferred)			 
9030b000 9030c000   Fs_Rec	 (deferred)			 
90314000 90315000   Null	   (deferred)			 
9031b000 90322000   Beep	   (deferred)			 
90322000 9032e000   vga		(deferred)			 
9032e000 90336000   RDPCDD	 (deferred)			 
90336000 9033e000   rdpencdd   (deferred)			 
9033e000 9033f000   Msfs	   (deferred)			 
90349000 90357000   Npfs	   (deferred)			 
90357000 90360000   rasacd	 (deferred)			 
90360000 90376000   tdx		(deferred)			 
90376000 9038a000   smb		(deferred)			 
9038a000 903d2000   afd		(deferred)			 
903d2000 903e9000   usbccgp	(deferred)			 
903e9000 903ff000   pacer	  (deferred)			 
90601000 9063d000   rdbss	  (deferred)			 
90645000 9064f000   nsiproxy   (deferred)			 
90657000 9066e000   dfsc	   (deferred)			 
9066e000 90673200   avgmfx86   (deferred)			 
90674000 906c1c00   avgldx86   (deferred)			 
906d0000 906f0b80   usbvideo   (deferred)			 
906f1000 906fe000   crashdmp   (deferred)			 
906fe000 907cc000   dump_iaStor   (deferred)			 
907cc000 907d6000   Dxapi	  (deferred)			 
907d6000 907e5000   monitor	(deferred)			 
907e5000 90800000   luafv	  (deferred)			 
9a670000 9a872000   win32k	 (deferred)			 
9a890000 9a899000   TSDDD	  (deferred)			 
9a8b0000 9a8be000   cdd		(deferred)			 
9a8c0000 9a90c000   ATMFD	  (deferred)			 
ad00c000 ad077000   HTTP	   (deferred)			 
ad077000 ad094000   srvnet	 (deferred)			 
ad094000 ad0ad000   bowser	 (deferred)			 
ad0ad000 ad0c2000   mpsdrv	 (deferred)			 
ad0c2000 ad0e2000   mrxdav	 (deferred)			 
ad0e2000 ad101000   mrxsmb	 (deferred)			 
ad101000 ad13a000   mrxsmb10   (deferred)			 
ad13a000 ad152000   mrxsmb20   (deferred)			 
ad152000 ad179000   srv2	   (deferred)			 
ad179000 ad1c5000   srv		(deferred)			 
ad1dd000 ad1e1080   aspi32	 (deferred)			 
aec02000 aece0000   peauth	 (deferred)			 
aece0000 aecea000   secdrv	 (deferred)			 
aecea000 aecf6000   tcpipreg   (deferred)			 
aecf8000 aed0e000   cdfs	   (deferred)			 
aed0e000 aed17000   asyncmac   (deferred)			 
aeddc000 aede5000   hidusb	 (deferred)			 
aede5000 aedec000   LHidFilt   (deferred)			 
aedec000 aedf4000   mouhid	 (deferred)			 
aedf4000 aedfb600   LMouFilt   (deferred)			 

Unloaded modules:
aed0e000 aeddc000   hiber_iaStor
901f8000 901ff000   LHidFilt.Sys
9064f000 90657000   LMouFilt.Sys
90200000 90209000   hidusb.sys
9063d000 90645000   mouhid.sys
906c2000 906d0000   rdwm1027.sys
aecf6000 aecf8000   MSPQM.sys
ad1c5000 ad1dd000   parport.sys
8b3ec000 8b3f9000   crashdmp.sys
8ec0d000 8ecdb000   dump_iaStor.

Yes, that's just the debugger telling you it doesn't have the symbols for that file.
And the LM info doesn't show any modules loaded at that address - so it's on to manually troubleshooting this.

That'll require trying each of the audio apps individually to see if you get a BSOD. To do this, start uninstalling them one at a time and then test to see if the BSOD comes back. If it doesn't, then the last one you uninstalled was the problem.

If you get past that and are still getting errors, then I'd have to suspect either a Windows error or a hardware error. The way to fix the Windows error is to reinstall Windows "clean" and update all drivers. With a "fixed" Windows installation, that usually leaves just the hardware as suspect.

Finally, we can check your other drivers with Driver Verifier - but you'll need to do 3 things first:
- backup all your data (you may not be able to get back into Windows after turning Driver Verifier on).
- locate your reinstallation disks (in case you can't get into Windows)
- locate another computer that you can connect to the internet with (in case you can't get back into Windows).

Once that's done, go to Start and type in "verifier" (without the quotes) and press Enter
In the window that opens, click on "Next" to create the standard settings
Then, click on "Next" to automatically select unsigned drivers
Then click on "Finish" to verify the list of selected drivers.
Then reboot.

The point of this is to generate a memory dump - so expect the system to crash on you. If it doesn't crash immediately, keep using Windows until it does. Once you capture the memory dump analysis post it here for us to have a look at.

Once you've crashed, go back in and turn off the verifier (until you do this the system will continue to crash because of the verifier).
To do this go to Start and type in "verifier" (without the quotes) and press Enter
Then select the "Delete existing settings" option.
Then click on "Finish" to close the dialog and remove the settings.

If you're unable to do this in normal mode, try going into Safe Mode.
If you can't get into Safe Mode, then you'll have to access the Recovery Environment in order to manually remove the settings (and that's not fun!).

Thanks for the continued help. I'm wondering though how the music applications can make a differenc here. They don't install any drivers, and no processes are running for them when they are closed. They don't even touch the driver when not in use. It happens with three or four music apps that I've used for years now, and for about a year on this computer, without issue. So that's confusing to me. As a matter of fact, none of them have been updated recently either. But how can they make the driver crash? Also, it did happen once when I wasn't using ANY of them.

Also, it doesn't happen when I use another sound driver and device. I do have other external devices, and all run flawlessly in the same programs that crash with the Realtek driver. Another reason why I'm confused about it possibly being an application. Can you explain deeper? Or do these things help to rule that out?

It's not that I mind trying it. I just don't look forward to putting my work on hold to do it. It's a busy time right now.

Same with the system re-installing. I generally use disk images from Acronis to restore my system if needed(which is extremely rare). It took a LONG time to get my system and all my apps running just the way they are. A LOOOOOOONG time. Half of the software I use also relies on being authorized when the system is restored from scratch(but not from a disk image, which is part of why I use them). This would literally be a two week process, possibly more. So you can understand my concern.

About the driver verifier, I already did that entire process and nothing bad happened, no errors, no BSOD, no problems at all. I don't know if I mentioned that already. I do know that the drivers are signed, but I tested them anyways and they passed with flying colors(I didn't test every driver on my system, but I don't know that I need to, do I?) I only have two unsigned drivers on my system, and they aren't related to sound. They are things like the pdf printing utility type of stuff. But everything else is signed.

If I REALLY have to do this stuff, I will. I just don't know when I can do it. It will literally set me back a couple more weeks. Is there a way to get the symbols that are needed for that driver error? Will it tell me anything if I do?

Brent

I may try the verifier thing again, but the driver is signed. Does that matter for this? I didn't get any crashes or anything while using the verifier, but then again, I didn't do much with it before turning it off. I read on another tech page that it would have crashed on startup or something. So maybe I need to run verifier and let the system be used normally before deleting the settings? Did I do that wrong?

Also, about the applications. One of them relies on a dongle to work. It runs two services regardless of whether the dongle is plugged in or not. Could that be causing a problem, even though the dongle itself isn't an audio thing? I know that the drivers for it don't appear in the unsigned list, but maybe I'll try stopping that service to see.

Come to think of it, I did start having problems around the time that I was having an issue with that application. But it wasn't audio driver related, but something else. Just a normal every day "oh, how annoying" thing, and nothing I generally worry about as it's nothing crashing or freezing. Just a compatibility thing. Maybe it's more connected than I thought?

I'll uninstall that application later tonight and see what happens.

Brent

Quote

- that fixes more computer issues than all the troubleshooting in the world. You know your system best, and if something ain't quite right that just may be the source of the problem.

The rest of this will launch us into a long discussion about drivers, driver signing, and the functions of Driver Verifier.

First tho', when you install a sound application it may or may not install drivers to interface with the sound card. Those drivers may or may not be signed - and they may not even be visible to most users.

Secondly, the further removed from the actual crash, the longer it's gonna take to generate a BSOD. This is good for you, as those crashes are easier to recover from, but the bad news is that those crashes are harder to diagnose - even with the assistance of Driver Verifier.

Next, once Driver Verifier is invoked, it's necessary to work the OS until a BSOD occurs, then analyze that crash dump in relation to everything else that's happened. If it doesn't help to provide a solution, then more driver checking is indicated.

We start with unsigned drivers as that's the most likely cause of the problem, and it impacts your system performance the least. If it doesn't provide us with anything to go by, then we redo it - checking more and more drivers in each iteration.

The point here is that we want Driver Verifier to generate a crash - and the sooner after a boot up, the better. Unfortunately, when the crash doesn't occur immediately, it usually means that the troubleshooting will be more difficult. Also, we've got to keep the OS "static" (no changes) so that we don't end up changing things unintentionally while proceeding through the testing.

I'd suggest running Driver Verifier as mentioned above - and leave it on until you get a BSOD (try running each of the audio applications to force it). Then post that dump analysis.
While waiting for a reply, try upping the settings in Driver Verifier to check drivers made for older versions of Windows. BTW - this doesn't even include the checking of special settings (the one's that are marked for developers). There's plenty more ways that we can use Driver Verifier to assist in this.

The other alternative (as I mentioned previously) is to format the hard drive and reinstall Windows and all drivers.