BleepingComputer.com: Religious Holidays

This question is primarily going towards any and all athiests on this forum, but anyone can weigh in if they choose to do so.

I've heard a lot of athiests complain about the Christian aspects of our National traditions (In God We Trust on our currency, prayer in Schools (a supposed ban has already been implemented, though I still see Muslims praying from time-to-time in observation of Ramadan), One Nation Under God in our National Anthem, etc.) So in light of the upcoming Christmas Holiday, my question is this. Since it is so imperative for the Nation's health that Religion be eliminated from the country's government, does that mean that Religious Holidays should be banned as well? Why or Why not? Also, with the supposed Christian reference of the word "holiday", should there be another word used in the relation of specialized days for our nation? If so, what would these days be called?

Hope to enjoy this little debate.

Sorry, I posted this in the wrong forum. If the mods can move this to the "Speak Easy" forum, I'd appreciate it.

This post has been edited by mikerox: 11 December 2008 - 11:49 PM
Reason for edit: Personal comment removed to comply with Board Rules

Hi Mikerox ... nope, I don't agree that religious holidays should be banned. In fact, quite the opposite.

When the government incorporates religion into our affairs, I do disagree - after all, not all citizens are Christians and our government represents all of us, Christians and non-Christians. But religious holidays are a choice of the individual person - they can choose to celebrate them or not - another lovely freedom we have in our Country.

Myself, although not a Christian, do celebrate Christmas - just not in the same way a Christian would, for instance. I do tell the children that many people believe in Christ and although I do not, it doesn't mean they are right or wrong - and neither am I - gentle smile.

And I have no problem saying "Merry Christmas" to someone either - nor simply 'Happy Holidays' as it's not intended as an insult, rather as "I hope you have happy days during each day of this holiday season".

To be honest, it irritates me a tad when some non-Christians say boo and hiss to others celebrating the holiday ... and equally when some Christians maintain I and those I love shouldn't celebrate 'Christmas' because there is no God involved in my day. Be at peace and let others do the same, surely!

Mike, I was intrigued by the question Should the word holiday be replaced?

Although the word originated from Holy Day, it has now refers to days which have nothing to do with religion.

This says it better than I can:

"New Year's Day, Presidents Day (a combined observance of George Washington's and Abraham Lincoln's birthdays that occurs near the date of Washington's birthday), the Fourth of July (Independence Day), Labor Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day are legal holidays observed by all the states. Abraham Lincoln's birthday, Memorial Day, Election Day, Columbus Day, and Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday are legal holidays in most states. Many special occasions are observed by single states or by a group of states, such as Patriots' Day (in Massachusetts and Maine) and the Confederate Memorial Day. In 1971 the U.S. Congress created several three-day weekends for federal employees by proclaiming that certain holidays be observed on Monday regardless of their actual dates. Holidays now celebrated on Monday in most states include Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Columbus Day and Veterans Day." from here: http://www.answers.com/topic/holiday scroll down the page to the Columbia Encyclopedia entry.

Only one of them is a religious holiday. So now I'm curious, what you propose to use to replace the word holiday?

Oops, I thought it was religious holidays ... so in that case we can remove Labor Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving Day, Fourth of July, New Year's Day, President's Day etc - gentle smile.

Think the only ones that people seem to get a tad 'het up' about is Christmas and Easter? - or perhaps I'm missing some. But then again, maybe I've misunderstood completely - oh dear.

Hi Mara. The Topic Header, says "Religious Holidays,should they be banned?"so you were right in thinking the Topic, was in reference to Religious Holidays.IMO. I thought the same,also.

There is often confusion about religious institutions having to do with religious experiences. Religious institutions are social organizations which control social behaviors. Whether you teach that giving your money to the poor is good on the basis of a religious teaching or because of a political perspective doesn't really matter. The act of giving money to the poor is intended to support a value structure which negates some of the value of the individual in favor of the community. What I believe was intended by the founding fathers was a separation of state and religious organizational structures. As an atheist living in a predominantly non-atheist culture, you may have found your chosen belief system overwhelmed from being in the minority. This experience would be the same if you were of some minor position in any other area. The solution may not be to attempt to shift the society as a whole in order to gain support for your own belief system, but rather to find support among those who share your atheist understanding. While you would still have to deal with being in the odd-man-out position for those experiences you've had that have led you to conclude that there is no god, it wouldn't feel as painful and grate so strongly on your feelings of injustice. Tolerance must come from minorities to majorities as well as from majorities to minorities.

Personally, I think it's just fine the way it is. lol But thinking as an Atheist, if I were to change the name of specialized national days of celebration, I guess I would use the phrase ... "celebratory day". What would you propose?

This post has been edited by groovicus: 12 December 2008 - 04:35 PM
Reason for edit: Removed quote-I don't need to read what I just read

Would it not take away lovely personal freedoms to change the name of specialized national days of celebration such as Christmas and Easter? After all, it was the Christians who choose these special days and named them ... and those who don't believe just benefit in other ways from them. Don't think little kids would quite understand, "No dear, Santa now comes on 'celebratory day', not Christmas?"- gentle smile.

I knew it was lame. lol

As I stated during the previous post, I was thinking as if I were an Atheist. Also, I find that holidays should remain untouched. These holidays aren't just Christian holidays, but national traditions that the US engages in every year. In addition to that, our economy tends to get a bit of a positive jump by the sells that are generated because of these holidays.

@mikerox: any chance you could refrain from quoting the previous post every time you reply? Thanks.

I know the topic says RELIGIOUS holidays. But I replied to the specific question Should the word holiday be replaced?. with a bit of the origin of the word and what it encompasses today and what non-religious holidays there are.
My question still stands: what would replace the word holiday? Remember, it would have to cover other holidays, not just Christmas.

[quote name='Queen-Evie' post='1043367' date='Dec 12 2008, 02:04 PM']My question still stands: what would replace the word holiday? Remember, it would have to cover other holidays, not just Christmas.[/quote]
[size=4]Festivus!!! [/size]Lets have a Festivus for the rest of us!!!


Sorry I just could not resist.

Then it could be Labor Festivus, Memorial Festivus, Columbus Festivus, Presidents Festivus... well you get the idea.....

As long as we can have a groovicus festivus

When someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays", am I to take them to mean the same thing? Both infer the wishing of kindness and good will and/or well-being. As a Christian, I prefer the former. What troubles me is the fact that I, as a member of the majority that celebrates Christmas as a religious holiday, am forced to bend to the wishes of the minority and say the latter.

Having studied the history of cultural religions, I am aware of the fact that the tradition of Christmas (not the modern tradition), revolves around the festival of Saturnalia in ancient Rome. December 25th is the third day, or resurection day, after the winter solstice when the ancient Romans celebrated the rebirth of the sun god (daylight begins to increase after December 22nd). I am also aware of the fact that the date of 12/25, realistically, is not, based on the timeline listed in Scripture as it relates to the seasonal activities of the Middle East, the actual birth date of Christ...you know, "sheperds were in the fields tending their flocks by night"? Traditionally, sheperds sent their flocks out shortly after Passover, or early spring, and would begin to bring them in at the first rains, or mid-October. So what? I also understand that the early Puritans of England and the Massachusetts Colony forbid the celebration of Christmas because of it's ties to Pagan rituals (after several decades, this was reversed). Again, so what?

Christmas is the one day that I set aside (have had set aside) to thank God for the gift that He sent us. This is unlike Thanksgiving when I give thanks for everything that I have been given. I give gifts because this is what the Magi (wisemen) did and I enjoy seeing the joy, albeit materialistic, that it brings.

While some may argue that the celebration of Christmas is a Pagan ritual, it is deeply rooted in my Christian religious beliefs. If I pass you on the street and say "Merry Christmas" and you reply with "Happy Holidays", I will take no offense to it. At the same time, if you greet me and say "Happy Holidays", I will respond and say "Merry Christmas"...no inferrence or insult meant.

Merry Christmas to all!

This post has been edited by rangecoach: 12 December 2008 - 09:57 PM

I voted No, I do not think religious holidays should be banned and No, I do not thing we should do away with the word Holiday. geez.. geez. How would anyone expect to enforce such a thing as banning Christmas? I mean seriously? If you ban something it is inferred that if you do the thing that is banned there would be a punishment, right? What if you banned the word Holiday and someone said it because they just let it slip? To my way of thinking the ideas are preposterous. Let us have a bit of tolerance, a bit of kindness and respect this HOLIDAY season. I do not care what religion you are, you cannot refute the sentiment, Peace On Earth, Good Will Toward Man. THAT is what is important. This PC garbage brings me down!

and btw I am all for a Groovicus Festivus. Just let me know where and when LOL

Merry Christmas to you too rangecoach!