BleepingComputer.com: Does Society Control You?

we've talked, on these boards, about people who try to live simple lives

society shuns them.

ex. if your a so called bumb, or you try to live in a commune, society hates you. sometimes the government even makes laws that in effect, give people of your mindset a disadvantage.

why are people like this erased and made into outcasts by our society? afterall, years ago, this is how everyone lived. for the day, the moment, for survival. a persons only thought in the morning was, " what can i get to eat today?"

and we wonder why there are so many problems in america today. not the problems that are normal for every phase of history, between different cultures and countries like wars between countries. but, have you not wandered why, as americans, the so called greatest civilization ever, we cannot even solve obesity? people today are so busy with things that are unnatural, that are against the nature of the human being. sleep 8 hours, check. eat, check. but what do people cut out when it comes to sacrificing for their careers? people start disregarding their families. they sleep far less than they need. they work over 40 hour weeks. they build stress that they could easily let go of. and sacrifice everything for a paycheck.


my question is "why"? what makes people keep getting up and digging their holes deeper? (besides financially) in america these days, people only get respect if they are rich, or very old? in my opinion, i dont see how people get up one day and see that they are 60 0r 70 years old, and everyone hates them, what have you really gotten out of life?


i know that many dont have the courage to do so, but i wish that people could live simply, ethically, and morally, and happy lives, without the constant pressure by society, the media, irs, and other money making scams that have ruined the human spirit.

I agree most people expect you to consume, consume and consume as much as you possibly can! I made it a point when I moved out that I was not taking my car with me to college, primarily because it was an extra expense and there is a very elaborate bus system down here. Which almost everyone I talked to before I left home, was questioning me on this simple issue...

It's not that I wanted to be different or that I wanted to defy everyone, it's simply that I don't need a car. Everything is within walking distance or can be reached with a public bus.

I think, mostly here in America, that the idea is to consume, and if you're not consuming then you're looked down upon.

its just that you cant live how you want and be considered ok. you have to be normal to be ok

My question is "why"? what makes people keep getting up and digging their holes deeper? (besides financially) in america these days, people only get respect if they are rich, or very old?

..........................................................................

There's that old saying, "Keeping up with the Jones"

If so & so got a new car, then you have to have a new car.

Now, that no longer holds true. These are hard times, and will be so for a while.

It's now keep what you got and forget what other people have.

Just be thankful for what you have, it coudl be worst.

Poppy

[quote]but what do people cut out when it comes to sacrificing for their careers? people start disregarding their families. they sleep far less than they need. they work over 40 hour weeks. they build stress that they could easily let go of. and sacrifice everything for a paycheck. my question is "why"? what makes people keep getting up and digging their holes deeper?[/quote]
I call it societal evolution.
Like all mammals, we are taught by our parents. If your parents worked 60hrs a week, chances are good you will too because that is how you were taught to survive and provide a future for your children. It just snowballs with each new generation. It has become the norm and people just expect it. They wouldn't have a clue how to live any other way, though given a choice, most would choose a simpler life if they could.
My father was a logger by trade and a backwoodsman at heart. I was raised in the tall timber of Oregon and Washington.
He taught me how to hunt, fish, trap, build a fire without matches and a multitude of survival techniques. After I was drafted and returned from Vietnam, I went right back to the forest's at first. When I married and had children, I went back to school for their future. As it worked out, half my work is still in the wild and the other half at a computer. My kids are grown and gone but I never impressed upon them to "conform", only that there were more important things then money. As long as they are healthy and happy, then so am I. Every parent wants better for their kids but many lose sight of why they work their butts off to begin with. I was not about to "hand down" that mistake.
Of course, an economist would have a whole different picture to paint for you.

This post has been edited by HitSquad: 18 September 2008 - 11:08 AM

[quote name='HitSquad' post='948601' date='Sep 18 2008, 10:47 AM']As long as they are healthy and happy, then so am I. Every parent wants better for their kids but many lose sight of why they work their butts off to begin with. I was not about to "hand down" that mistake. [/quote]I agree...all (or those that care) parents want their children to have more than they did...I'm not just talking about "material things." My 16 y/o son already has more "things" than I did at 2x his age...but what I want mostly for my son is...
To be happy...happy with himself, who he is on the inside...cause all the outside stuff keeps changing...of course I want him to get a good education, get a good job so he can provide for himself and his (eventual) family. There are some riches that can not be obtained through study or work...There are things you should never lose...
Friendship, Integrity, Honesty, Courage (to do what you feel is the best thing, not the most popular...) Honor.. Love...of yourself and other living things...these are the things we are truly measured by.

[quote name='Wing Man' post='948610' date='Sep 18 2008, 11:03 AM'][quote name='HitSquad' post='948601' date='Sep 18 2008, 10:47 AM']As long as they are healthy and happy, then so am I. Every parent wants better for their kids but many lose sight of why they work their butts off to begin with. I was not about to "hand down" that mistake. [/quote]I agree...all (or those that care) parents want their children to have more than they did...I'm not just talking about "material things." My 16 y/o son already has more "things" than I did at 2x his age...but what I want mostly for my son is...
To be happy...happy with himself, who he is on the inside...cause all the outside stuff keeps changing...of course I want him to get a good education, get a good job so he can provide for himself and his (eventual) family. There are some riches that can not be obtained through study or work...There are things you should never lose...
Friendship, Integrity, Honesty, Courage (to do what you feel is the best thing, not the most popular...) Honor.. Love...of yourself and other living things...these are the things we are truly measured by.
[/quote]

they say that my generation will likely be the first to not do better than their parents.......

i'm only 21, and i was hearing that when i was in high school.......

now with the economy the way it looks, i wish people would abandon the old teachings and we would do what must be done...

Hang in there Ryan.
I know things look a little grim right now but it's happened before, (depression,war,no jobs,etc) it's just modern media coverage bringing it (and everything else) in your face. Your generation will soon be in charge.

[quote name='HitSquad' post='957259' date='Sep 26 2008, 10:56 AM']Hang in there Ryan.
I know things look a little grim right now but it's happened before, (depression,war,no jobs,etc) it's just modern media coverage bringing it (and everything else) in your face. Your generation will soon be in charge. [/quote]


not soon enough

Society is a mythology which has been built up over a period of many thousands of years. If you examine it closely, you'll find there's very little agreement on single issues, but it's still important to maintain the idea of agreement. To do this, it is easiest to take some prominent difference which stands out and is relatively unimportant and have mobbing sessions. This painful experience for those who are targeted results in feelings of strength for the mobs. It allows the mobs to maintain the idea of agreement at the least cost.

[quote name='Zllio' post='962831' date='Oct 1 2008, 11:25 PM']Society is a mythology which has been built up over a period of many thousands of years. If you examine it closely, you'll find there's very little agreement on single issues, but it's still important to maintain the idea of agreement. To do this, it is easiest to take some prominent difference which stands out and is relatively unimportant and have mobbing sessions. This painful experience for those who are targeted results in feelings of strength for the mobs. It allows the mobs to maintain the idea of agreement at the least cost.[/quote]


Well that is true, but it still does not explain how some things that were once considered horrible, are now accepted by society, and vice versa. Considering your statement, at what time did society start considering having sex with young boys wrong? At what point did being gay become ok? I propose that there is still strength in the individual to choose and shape the world that they live in, and ultimately shape society, for better or for worse. I feel like people who don't find this strength in themselves are a little cowardice, for lack of a better term. Even when they know something accepted by society is wrong, they will just go with it because it is less trouble for them. That is a coward.

[quote name='ryan_w_quick' post='982608' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:20 AM'][quote name='Zllio' post='962831' date='Oct 1 2008, 11:25 PM']Society is a mythology which has been built up over a period of many thousands of years. If you examine it closely, you'll find there's very little agreement on single issues, but it's still important to maintain the idea of agreement. To do this, it is easiest to take some prominent difference which stands out and is relatively unimportant and have mobbing sessions. This painful experience for those who are targeted results in feelings of strength for the mobs. It allows the mobs to maintain the idea of agreement at the least cost.[/quote]


Well that is true, but it still does not explain how some things that were once considered horrible, are now accepted by society, and vice versa. Considering your statement, at what time did society start considering having sex with young boys wrong? At what point did being gay become ok? I propose that there is still strength in the individual to choose and shape the world that they live in, and ultimately shape society, for better or for worse. I feel like people who don't find this strength in themselves are a little cowardice, for lack of a better term. Even when they know something accepted by society is wrong, they will just go with it because it is less trouble for them. That is a coward.
[/quote]

"Society" has likely taken many positions in regard to all the issues you mention, but since society is considered to be a collection of all people, and because there are obvious differences of opinion within this collection, which negate the possibility of ever saying society thinks this or society thinks that, the concept of society is a delusion which is maintained in the small ways put into question in the first post.

[quote name='ryan_w_quick' post='943851' date='Sep 14 2008, 12:37 AM']my question is "why"? what makes people keep getting up and digging their holes deeper?[/quote]

This first thing you should do when you find yourself in a hole is to STOP DIGGING!

As a person who has become increasingly eccentric over the years, not entirely by choice, I find that society has in some ways become much less tolerant of differences in the U.S. There are other cultures where family members are not just tolerated, by receive active emotional support, from their family when they are different. And our psychoactive-drug-based medical system just perpetuates this problem. It is one thing to teach a person what to do to get better treatment in our society, it is another to try to make them all fit into the same mold, when they come from different genders, cultures, and religious groups. The medical profession's and insurance companies' reliance on medications for treating a whole host of conditions that respond better to peer support and to talk therapies is sedating everyone into blandness. These medications are very useful, but, in spite of very dangerous side effects, are being promoted for conditions for which they have never been researched or studied.

A great dangerous force for conformity now is the way FISA has been rewritten under the Patriot Act, and the extensive powers given to our intelligence agencies. Also, the military and national guard has been given extensive power to act within the U.S. Of course, we would like rapid response in the face of threats to our national security, but there has been a chilling effect on our national discourse, on political discussion within the Congress and Senate, and within the print media. In other words, there are some who would have us destroy what is most precious in our society in order to preserve it. And those who were promoting these changes were chillingly inept (and in some cases, corrupt) in their pursuit of their illusory vision of national security.

There must be some way to provide well for national security without destroying our individuality or right to dissent peacefully. Our current homeland security is a disgrace on so many levels. I certainly do not feel safer. And I do not want to feel threatened by the government or worry about the content of my statements on the internet.

[quote name='ryan_w_quick' post='943851' date='Sep 14 2008, 12:37 AM']i know that many dont have the courage to do so, but i wish that people could live simply, ethically, and morally, and happy lives, without the constant pressure by society, the media, irs, and other money making scams that have ruined the human spirit.[/quote]



Choice is a wonderful thing Ryan.

We can choose to reject television and the media. We can choose not to eat fast food. We can choose to pass on money making schemes. We can choose not to abuse alcohol, tobacco, and illicit drugs. We can choose not to follow the path of others. We can choose to have healthy and happy relationships.


It is possible to live a simple, ethical life, though it takes work to get there.