BleepingComputer.com: The State Of Linux

Joedude, on Sep 2 2007, 03:00 PM, said:

What it comes down to is that the monitoring software is designed to run under the OS that 90% of the computing public uses. So if they want to monitor this guy, rather than deny him any computing privileges at all, then he'll have to comply with the court's orders. Do you propose that the government spend millions of dollars having software written that will run under an OS that relatively few people use?

This whole "monitoring" scheme is ridiculous, anyways. (I wonder what Lib. was responsible for that example of intellectual prowess.) If I had committed some nefarious deed, and was told I'd have to have use the Russian PPPC OS, I'd tell 'em to go ahead and install it - after first backing up my HD. Then I'd take the laptop over to the WIFI-equipped library across the street and carry on, business as usual.

I'm sure that if this jamoke is anything like a true computer junkie, he has more than one system, at least one of which is portable.

Digression Alert!!

At one time, I owned one of the first "portable" computers. The good old Osborne One. Weighed about thirty-five pounds* had two 5-1/4" floppies, and this little bitty five inch monochrome monitor right in the middle of it. Z-80 machine using CP/M, and (if I remember correctly) a whopping 256K of RAM. I don't remember if there was a hard drive in it or not.


End Digression

* The battery for it (it wouldn't be portable without one, now would it?) weighed about fifty five. The whole thing was about as portable as a refrigerator.

This post has been edited by MattV: 03 September 2007 - 11:13 AM

Quote

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think this is the Speakeasy Forum or a Political Forum Either. Please Edit your post accordingly for the "Linux" Forum.
If by chance you can name the party/parties responsible for criminal monitoring software I'd accept a link from this post to a more appropriate Forum, but we're not here to bash each other's personal views.

I think the forum is getting quite off topic at this point as you'll notice this is my ameteur attempt at writing how I view the useability of Linux and free software. My intent was never to invoke conversation of criminal manners. I believe the original reply providing the link to the story was relevant to the extent that our society uses Windows versus Linux. Again, let's keep our conversation geared towards the useability aspect here.

Thanks In Advance.

MattV, on Sep 3 2007, 01:25 AM, said:

And there you have hit the point exactly. They have paid to have the win vers made. I will now google search for free (as in beer) linux alternatives: the search criterion will be "free linux internet activity monitoring software"

the results: 1, 780,000 hits

http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&...earch&meta=

That is a perfect representation of the versatility of linux. It would cost them nothing, as this problem has all ready been adressed in the open source community.

As for the state of it, it won't surpass windows until the "just works" factor is resolved. Most people don't even know what a kernel is, let alone why it should be compiled. Most people have no idea that there is a registry in windows or what it does. They don't care about any of this. Most want to put in a disk, download a package, play a game, get thier email, and it just works. Until linux comes up with solutions like this , it will never surpass windows market share. If people were concerned with the other isues, linux would soar above them.

As is the case in the example with the movie pirate, the judge and or the people dealing with his probation were probably not even aware there was another OS. A lot of people still believe windows is part of a computer.

RandomUser, on Sep 3 2007, 02:16 AM, said:

Uhhh... You'll have to explain that one.

As far as this "monitoring" software goes, I wouldn't doubt that it's quite similar to the software used to keep the kiddies at the public library from looking at smut.

Joedude, on Sep 3 2007, 09:18 AM, said:

I used the same search term using Copernic. Sixty-four results, and at least 1/3 of them were completely relevant. That's just a bit saner than 1,780,000, most of which aren't even near the ballpark. I hate Google.

What it comes down to, in the end, is that this "monitoring" scheme is completely ridiculous, and a waste of taxpayer money, no matter how it's implemented.

We're straying far enough away from the original subject of this thread, that perhaps a thread for this subject would be appropriate.

This post has been edited by MattV: 03 September 2007 - 11:31 AM

what a wonderful thread I have been on other boards and the mere mention of linux seems to get me clamped, so it really is great to see a balanced debate going on here, a bit heated but still friendly, keep it coming then

I have only some small points to make in that someone I think posted that linux would never become mainstream because it was far too difficult, but since I am on kubuntu and got it installed, updated and upgraded all from gui instructions as opposed to command lines, I can say that the days of linux for "Joe Average" have arrived, that is if he or she wants to retain their computer without being forced to upgrade because of this being pushed on them(link a bit old sorry)
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/04/1..._xp_withdrawal/

I only ask that anyone seeing this thread that feels that he or she would like to give linux a try first joins the forum of that distro and then(that is rather than downloading the ISO image to burn) just try out this program that adds linux to his or her windows system as in dual boot under a choice of distributions of linux

the idea
http://wubi-installer.org/screenshots.php
the download link
http://wubi-installer.org/index.php

then, after the user has gotten used to linux, he or she can install the linux in various ways and none of them need be command line.

there is something else, I go out into the local bistro here is Geneva quite often and if someone sees I am running linux and asks me about it I just offer to install it for them if they come back with their old laptops next time I see them, because this way I am contributing to prolonged usage of old computers which is my goal here(rather than plugging linux or fighting windows which are by product of my efforts)

fleamailman

I must certainly agree with you there because that's the whole point of Linux. Everyone and anyone can use it, no matter what hardware. Sometimes Brand spanking new Hardware is a bit more taxing on the brain to get everything working, but to have your old laptop jump to life again is awesome.

I wish more people viewed this OS the way you do. I know this a buyest because I'm using it for many thing now, but my hope is that any OS is Useable and fun at the same time. Dreamlinux which I've used briefly seems to be coming along quite niceley as well, with a more tuned GUI. Dreamlinux has the best things from Mac OS X, Vista, and Linux. Check it out on distrowatch.com and read the reviews.

I'm somewhat aware of WUBI but have yet to use that, we'll see what happens there.

I think probably, for the average consumer, one of the most attractive things about linux would be it's affordability. Most Distros are free (as in beer), and the ones you do pay for doesn't put a dent in your wallet. Even most you can buy just for the cos of the disk. Also, there's the advantage of not being out another $150.00 - $350.00 just to keep up with the current release. If open office or star office would become as robust as MS Office, and there was an adequate up to date alternative to directX for gamers, I imagine linux would find a substantial boost in it's marketshare.

This post has been edited by Joedude: 05 September 2007 - 03:40 AM

fleamailman, on Sep 4 2007, 08:34 AM, said:

I did this, and so far I'm quite satisfied with the results. And now, of course, there are the inevitable questions. I'm looking for a few different types of Applications, and would appreciate anyone's input on:

Firewalls

A/V and anti-spy/ad ware

Video players that will handle .wmv files

Database software that's not connected to MySQL in some way. (The DB program in OpenOffice is still a bit lame compared to Access.)

A programming language that won't require four years of college to learn. A graphical development environment would be nice, too.

Hint - been using VBasic for years.

Most Linux distros come with a firewall called Iptables , you may need or want a "front end" for easy access to it.
There are a number of AV's for Linux, QTFprot, ClamAV , AVG are three that come to mind.
MPlayer works for my .wmv's , but I think it's more of a codec thing than a player thing (I could be wrong)
I would highly suggest trying out a number of Live CD's before picking "one" to stick with .
http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
Running as "live" you don't even need a hard drive as most run from the cd or from memory only. most will let you save your settings to a floppy or a usb drive (thumb or hard, if you can boot from them) which I did for a little over a year for the most part.
asking what is the "best" anything is like asking whats the best ice cream flavor (which every one knows is "peach" )

I dunno how much success you'll have finding a free relational database better than the one in OO.org, but you can look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Open...agement_systems
Or check in the add/remove programs panel / Synaptic.

I'm not a programmer, but C++ and Python are good languages to know which are available in Linux, again check the add/remove panel to see what IDE's are available.

Quote

MattV

I'm pretty sure that anything not microsoft isn't going to satisfy your computing requirements. The fact is that there are hundreds of applications available, for free or purchase that will work with most linux distro's. The comment about "base" in OO.o is simply laughable. Maybe you would be more content with Excel through and through. Try keeping up with a thousand records 20 pages deep in Excel and tell me how it goes. Access itself builds upon the original MSDE (microsoft sql desktop edition) which, in order to take full advantage of, you need some programming experience. Quite frankly, it sounds like you're just whining at this point.

Further, the comments about the programming language that you're looking for, well; what do you hope to accomplish?

There are plenty of simple programming interfaces that take very little to get started on. If you state some specific concerns here, I'll provide you with
the answers. If you'd like, I'll put together some short tutorials. If you need any assistance to get going on linux, you just let me know.
I'm on Freenode sometimes. If you'd like some help, just PM me and I'll provide my knowledge.

Oh, also for video playback, the VLC player will generally give you the most success in playing files made with various codecs because it comes with a metric ton of codecs built in. Although WMV's are bound to be problematic on non-Windows systems simply because it's a closed proprietary format (it's difficult to play them on Mac systems as well).

Anyway, VLC is easily installed through add/remove, Synaptic, command-line apt-get, however you want to do it.

mattv, don't for the moment worry about languages, your linux will run sweet without them because first it is best to learn how to fiddle with the settings gui style, how to add/remove programs, how to add/change/remove desktops, in short just how to change things.

anyway I agree with trying out distros, I am on Kubuntu since I like kde layout, and their forum has a "help the new guy" catergory which one can simply ask anything at any level because the turth is that with linux we are all new guys, but I would not use kubuntu with every task I face because sometime its repairing windows with knoppix linux or running an old computer with puppy linux, so it is not only the icecream flavor but also the size of the tub so to speak

I am out of time here but I want to write next about why one does not see any posts on malware removal on linux(none of these hjt logs for linux) and why protection is wrong mindset anyway

This post has been edited by fleamailman: 07 September 2007 - 01:01 AM

RandomUser, on Sep 6 2007, 11:41 PM, said:

Look, dipstick, I've been working with computers since the early seventies - probably before you were even born - so don't try to talk down to me. As a matter of fact, if you have nothing positive to contribute, don't talk to me at all. I'd like to see you do anything with a machine that used an IBM Selectric TTY for I/O, and punched paper tape for storage. Not to mention working on the C & C computers for the Titan II Strategic Missile system. And as a developer for the doomed TRS-80 and the first Apple IIs. I'm expert with every OS Micro$oft ever made - except for Vista, which I have no interest in - and most of the software I use is freeware or shareware..

So here I am, diving into a new OS just because I like to learn new things, so I don't need any snotty remarks from puppies like you.