BleepingComputer.com: Income Tax Illegal/unconstitutional?

Is it illegal? Some say its unconstitutional.

Here are a couple of links:
Man Dodges Taxes For 10 Years, Wins In Federal District Court
http://consumerist.com/consumer/irs/man-do...ourt-279978.php

Why income tax is not needed:
http://www.devvy.com/notax.html

Whats your thoughts on it?

Interesting you got away with creating a thread where you don't voice your opinion, in the speak easy forum. One of my threads got slowed down because I didn't give an opinion and the mods were discussing if they should post a topic where the author doesn't give an opinion, just a few links. Not that I'm complaining, just making an observation.

Anyway, I think taxes are extremely annoying. That link was right, the government doesn't need our taxes, they're just greedy and want more money for themselves. And way to go on that attorney who got away with not paying certain taxes. I'm sure you've heard this saying, paraphrased, "there are 2 things certain in life: death and taxes".

This post has been edited by solaris32: 23 July 2007 - 08:14 PM

I never thought of that slowing it down but it did take 3 days or so instead of the usual few hours.

Do I think they are illegal? I am unsure now if they are I am all for getting rid of them as its MY money and I want it in MY hand instead of a DOT guy doing no work.

[quote name='solaris32' post='576101' date='Jul 23 2007, 09:13 PM']Interesting you got away with creating a thread where you don't voice your opinion, in the speak easy forum. One of my threads got slowed down because I didn't give an opinion and the mods were discussing if they should post a topic where the author doesn't give an opinion, just a few links. Not that I'm complaining, just making an observation.

Anyway, I think taxes are extremely annoying. That link was right, the government doesn't need our taxes, they're just greedy and want more money for themselves. And way to go on that attorney who got away with not paying certain taxes. I'm sure you've heard this saying, paraphrased, "there are 2 things certain in life: death and taxes".[/quote]

Taxes are a necessary part of life and certain taxes must exist. Hopefully you are referring to the income tax, and social security tax.

My opinion.....they are both total bull and the government has been stealing from its people for decades.

The "Income Tax" is illegal and unconstitutional. The amendment to add it to the constitution was NEVER approved by ALL 50 STATES. According to the constitution, ALL STATES have to approve of the proposed amendment before it is actually law. Next time you go to file your income taxes ask an attorney, lawyer, or your income tax filer to find a law that actually says that you have to pay income taxes. HE/SHE WILL NEVER FIND IT. Sales taxes are legal.

So next time you don't have to file/pay your income taxes! CHEERS! And the government cant sue you because there is no such law that exist that says you have to pay income taxes. So don't worry if you go to court. You will win if the judge has any common sense and/or is not corrupted.

Hmmm, I think a lot of people sitting in prison on "Tax Evasion" may agree - but they are still sitting in prison on Tax Evasion!

It may be 'technically' illegal - but that said, without it we wouldn't have Libraries, schools, roads and bridges and a zillion other things our tax dollars pay for. Granted millions upon millions are 'wasted' - but that said, we should perhaps blame the twits that do the wasting than on the actual taxes we're charged?

[quote]ALL STATES have to approve of the proposed amendment before it is actually law.[/quote]

Really? Says who?

[quote]And the government cant sue you because there is no such law that exist that says you have to pay income taxes.[/quote]

I'm sure Wesely Snipes will be quite relieved to hear that. Oh wait... he already tried that and was sentenced to 3 years. Sorry, try again.

Let me help you out a little:
[quote]The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.[/quote]

That is the 16th amendment. Amendments only need to be approved by three-fourths of states. So not all 50 states approved of it.. who cares? It is still a constitutional amendment.

[quote]Next time you go to file your income taxes ask an attorney, lawyer, or your income tax filer to find a law that actually says that you have to pay income taxes. HE/SHE WILL NEVER FIND IT.[/quote]
It took me about 10 seconds on Google, so I guess you had better fire your lawyer, because they are idiots.

Really, if you are going to try and debate, at least have the gumption to do some research.

i heard that there are people who used to work for the IRS who, uncovered some major ethics problems and/or corruption, so they quit. Most of them havnt filed tax forms yet, and to my knowledge they arent in any kind of trouble. dont take my word for any of this, i just heard it from my dad and i havent even googled it

my only problem with taxes is that they are set up to kill the small guy, while i know the founding fathers did not have this in mind, to this extent anyway


as of 2001, (probably higher now) 33.4% of the wealth in the united states was owned by the top 1% of wealthy people. i would venture to say that a large majority of this 1% of individuals is making the bulk of their profits by investing. in usa, investment earnings are taxed lower than individual income tax. this seems fair if your just an average joe dabbling in the market a little bit, but when your an elitist making millions a day, it doesn't seem so fair to me anymore.

why do you think high profile politicians running for office are always so willing to fork over their tax forms? it makes them look very good, since their incomes from their "jobs" are such a low portion of their actual earnings.

this is just another problem that needs to be fixed before the middle class is destroyed, or the usa will erupt in revolution. i wouldnt say the advantage lies in us bottom 99%. our numbers count for nothing, OUR VOTES COUNT FOR NOTHING, when we are constantly being pushed back by more money than we can combat, even when the law on our side

[quote name='snowman972' post='913423' date='Aug 15 2008, 11:52 PM']And the government cant sue you because there is no such law that exist that says you have to pay income taxes. So don't worry if you go to court. You will win if the judge has any common sense and/or is not corrupted.[/quote]

In other words, you can't win.

h

This post has been edited by ryan_w_quick: 03 September 2008 - 09:00 AM

FairTax.org is a group supporting the end of income tax in the United States. The tax would be replaced by a ten percent sales tax on "luxury items" meaning not food or other consumer products needed to live. The Income Tax was invented, and used by federal government to arrest gangsters, and also to give congress more money than it needed to run the country. This gave them a way to terrorize citizens via the IRS. Prior to income tax, all money needed to support the Country was collected by taxes on gasoline, property ownership,... Fair Tax is trying to take hold of congress's waste of taxpayer money by reducing the amount of money available. Unfortunately this last president didn't think debt was a bad thing and gave China the keys to our short hairs. I am happy to see legislators of both parties in support of the Fair Tax. The R party got way out of its roots of small government and less invasion of peoples personal lives. Hopefully the next administration will allow the three branches of government to govern itself (separation of duties) and the mainstream media will start reporting news rather than opinions and quotes and stupid questions. Let's start our research for the next election to get some of these goof-offs out of there. NumbersUSA.com tracks those who are allowing this invasion through open borders and taxpayer funded insurance to be given to illegal aliens, further bankrupting America and failing to care for its own weaker citizens.

The fair tax would not be implemented in a fair way. Most of the taxes would come from necessities, thus unduly burdening the poor and middle class and benefitting the wealthy.

Under the current tax system, the wealthy farm the U.S. treasury. Something like 80% of the Small Business Administration loans went to subsidiaries of conglomerates and other large corporate entities; most farm subsidies go to, not the small family farmers who have to endure natural disasters and bad weather, but to conglomerates and very large family farm corporations. Infrastructure improvements on the local level go disproportionately to the wealthy areas, and are rarely done in even the most law-abiding poor and lower middle-class communities on the local level. Fire and police protection? The same thing. I am leaving out consideration of areas where public workers, police officers and emergency medical technicians are called so low-lives can take potshots at them for their amusement.

My dad worked for IRS for many years as an auditor. He had worked as a bookkeeper for a small company for many years, then gone back to school while working to get an MBA. He and several CPA's in the auditing department were demoted to save the federal government money. This also had the affect of giving the supervisors, who had absolutely no training in accountancy or bookkeeping, the opportunity of implementing procedures and policies which could not be criticized, because there would be no one adequately trained to know what was wrong with those policies and procedures. My father's co-workers either went to work elsewhere or retired early. My father was constantly criticized for being too productive and maintaining too high a quality work product, which made the supervisors' cronies look bad. In spite of this incompetence, some folks, entirely self-educated, managed to do a creditable job over the years.

By the way, people who work in the Audits department of the I.R.S. really dislike those who do the active investigations, raids and seize property. Many of those employees will actively bully, terrorize, and seek publicity eagerly. They work in another section of the I.R.S. entirely.

Someone has to pay for government services. The world is too complicated and dangerous a place for folks to do it on their own. Libertarianism is just not practicable. The people who get audited, by and large, are the small taxpayers. Audits are supposedly done at random. Wealthy taxpayers are rarely audited because they have huge law firms at their disposal. Who writes the tax laws and regulations? Many of them are written by tax lawyers at very large law firms. I know, because I was a proofreader at one in Houston, Texas, for three years.

And Bill Gates? For years, the Gates Foundation was giving free computers and Microsoft software to libraries and to public schools. Great idea for the public. But there's one catch--it creates a captive consumer base.