Well people are making out like "they are this religion and they are good people" I was just saying you dont need religion to be a person who does good things I mean we can all help each other out and do good things even if you dont believe in any religion.

Other religions have very significant people that have graced the Earth, does that make those religions more significant?

Let me try to clear this matter up.

the whole difference between the miracles the Jesus (as well as the profits and apostles) did and the miracles that witches and and other occultists and magic practitioners do (and yes I did refer to them as miracles as referred to in Revelation) is the source of the power. Witchcraft, sorcery, magic (real magic not stage illusion) and occultism all get there power from supernatural beings other than God. Jesus, the prophets and apostles get there power from God. Now, the word of God (i.e. the bible) teaches that there are only 2 sources of power, God or Lucifer and the fallen angels (i.e. demons) that followed him. Those that draw there power from a source other that God are dealing with demonic forces eve though those demonic forces can and do try to disguise themselves as forces of light or good. This is a favorite tactic of Lucifer and his followers who have the ability to disguise themselves as angels of light (there pre-fall form). Make no mistake. Demons have great power, but their power is nothing compared to God. Examples of this include the prophet Ezra confronting the priest of Baal. when the Philistines had captured the ark of the covenant, they put it in their temple to their god Dagon. Every morning the priest of Dagon would come into the temple and the statue of Dagon would be on it's face in front of the ark and a plague would break out in that city as punishment for the theft of the ark. the Philistines eventually gave the ark back to stop the punishment that their "god" could not protect them from.

As for myself, I have done some looking into witchcraft (not wicca specifically). The more I learned, the more my skin crawled. As a Christian, God's Holy Spirit is inside me (as it is with all Christians that truly believe). I have been in situations where people where trying to tap occult power to divine the future. The Spirit in me warned me that this was not of God and was demonic in nature. I and family members and friend have had encounters with the occult and even one encounter with a person that was truly possessed by a demon. My mother will never forget the inhuman voice that came out of that man. This happened at the church that she worked at when we lived in Key West, Florida. The man came in and asked to speak to the pastor. My mother said the voice that he had was totally inhuman. when the pastor came out, he took one look at the man and bound the demon in the name of Jesus and cast it out. After that the man was normal and in his right mind.

I cannot stress enough. Demons are real. They have the power to appear to be forces of light, but this is a deception. Knowing what I know, and also from the experiences of family and other people that we have known, I'll never trust anything not of God. That is why I have been so adamant about my view and defense of my Faith. To fellow believers reading this, let not your hearts be troubled. Demonic forces can no power over you, unless God allows them to as a time of testing your faith (just look at Job). Stand firm in your faith and trust in God.


Seafox14

Actually Mara, What CGM stated is true. People can believe what they want and have that right. I'll say right now that I don't have a problem if someone chooses to follow a power other that God, but that does not make them right. Please remember that when a CGM, myself, or other followers of God say that all other faiths are false, we are not stating our own opinion. We are stating what God has stated in the bible. Now don't get us wrong. We are NOT advocating that people of other faiths be harmed or persecuted. We believe that they should be told the truth and then let them make their own choice. If they choose to keep following a false faith then it is on their own head, but such a person should not be mistreated. Just as Jesus condemned the sin but not the person committing the sin ( he gave them the opportunity to turn from that sin), that is what we are doing. If this sound closed minded to some here then so be it. We will respect your right to believe the way you do. Please return the favor.

Mara that last sentence of your post is very much a put down and slap in the face. unintended though it may be. I have defended your right to be an atheist without ridicule. I have said many times that the the bible does not teach holy war. the one that use it to justify the Crusades and the Inquisition are twisting it and are just as bad as the Islamic terrorists that try to use the Koran to justify their actions. I will and have forgiven you, but please think a little more carefully about what you post. I made this same mistake once. Ussr1943 was kind enough to pint out my error and I corrected it. Please do the same.

Seafox14

The way I look at it is that what is stated in the bible cannot be taken as fact in the normal (or perhaps scientific) sense of the word. One can choose to believe the bible or one can choose not to believe. Such belief is a matter of opinion (or faith if you prefer).

Thanks for all the information, SeaFox.

Re: My request to CGM : "Okay. In your opinion that is true. Doesn't make it reality nor a fact for others- and although I know you meant no harm, please don't call other people's faith 'fake'".

With those words I suspect many a 'unholy' war has been fought. Huge sigh.


When people of any Faith call the Faith of others "fake", those are cruel words. I would take umbrage if someone posted "Christianity is "fake" and say the same thing to the poster, "In your opinion that is true - but it doesn't make it a reality nor a fact to others".

Oh SeaFox, I would love to take the above final sentence back but although it truly wasn't intended as a slap in the face to CGM or anyone else, I have to stand by it. But I'm hoping the misunderstanding is caused simply becuase I may not have explain myself properly?

Because in my heart, I believe many wars have been fought with each person defending his own version of religion as the only one. And oddly enough, it was out of respect for you and others like you that I used the term "unholy war". The term 'holy war' was deliberately not used as I agree fully with your belief that not only were these wars based on "twisted' people's beliefs, but that your God or anyone's version of God, could ever be supportive of a war while innocents are slaughtered in His name.

SeaFox, I do apologise for not explaining myself fully and for assuming the term unholy war' would be sufficient to show what I meant - but in particular something I am sincerely sorry for is offending as I know you in particular have been fair when explaining your Faith in a reasonable and kind manner.

Mara

Mara its fact, the Bible says so. But not all have to believe this way you have the right the freedom to believe any way you want.

You can believe you can jump off a bridge and fly. Would it be mean for us to say no you can't thats stupid? It would be the truth.

People make up religions and amazingly get people to follow them. But they are not real.

The more I read and see how people believe I feel so sorry for them. The future is going to get rough. Many will wake up when the rapture comes and millions dissapear instantly. By that time they will be forced to go through the tribulation. If you have read Revelation in the Bible you will know just how bad things are going to be in the tribulation.

-Austin Z

Oh dear. Again, I have failed in making myself clear, I suspect.

I am not saying it is wrong for you to feel your Faith is the one and only, CGM. In fact, I am glad you do feel this way.

But once again, I would take umbrage if someone said 'Christianity is a fake' - just as I would if any other recognised religion is substituted for the word 'Christianity' in the statement.

I wouldn't care a whit whether the person saying it was being sincere or not and believed the statement to be true, I honestly feel it's a tad tacky to call any Faith that others believe to be true and strong a "fake". For to them, their Faith is real.

Far kinder would be to perhaps word things something along the lines of, "I feel my own religion is the only true one". When that is said, it's not an insult to others and their Beliefs, it's simply an affirmation of one's own belief.

Oddly enough, I do believe there are 'odd' things in this world and I do think of them as 'evil' - perhaps simply because I don't know of a better term to use to express myself.

People, whether 'real' or not, who involve themselves in what I think of as 'black witchcraft' and those that shockingly 'worship the devil' are just plain scary. Have never been able to comprehend why anyone would wish to attempt 'spells' on others or 'hex' them or all sorts of odd things. I'm not saying it's not possible as I simply don't know - but whether they are living in a delusional world or not, the thought alone still remains scary.

And I truly do not know whether 'demons' exist, whether based on Biblical terms of 'demons' or not. I simply don't know.

And please understand I am not not not advocating that anything along this line is a 'good' thing! I'm merely saying that Wicca is not classified as anything even similar to those mentioned above. Eek!

When I read about 'Hell Houses' I found it so shocking that I honestly couldn't believe they existed. And although I by-passed all the sites mentioning them that were obviously biased against them, I did find a site - a Baptist Church site (article from 1992) - that if the information they posted is not a joke, I'm more than stunned. In fact, should any of my children have been subjected to this 'Halloween Hell House', I'd likely be suing for child cruelty! Right after I may have had a heck of a fight within myself not to 'reach out and hurt someone'.

But then again, maybe I'm just over-reacting. I'd be truly interested in hearing from others if they think 'Hell Houses' are good or bad things.

Full store and source: http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1099/hellhouse.html

(Quote)

Landover Baptist's "Hell House" is an outreach event that is structured very much like a typical haunted house that people visit and walk through.

Hell House is much more than a haunted house. It is a reality-based adventure that takes people on a 7-scene journey, each scene depicting the hell and destruction that Satan and His world bestow on those who choose to not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Personal Savior.

Real Corpses from Turkey's Earthquake that would have been wasted in mass graves, will frozen and delivered to Landover Baptist Church, to be used in the Godly purpose of winning souls!

Groups of 20-25 people will tour Hell House with their own personal demon acting as their tour guide. The 10 scenes each last 2-3 minutes (with the exception of one scene that now only lasts 30 seconds, in an effort to cut down on all the vomit we had to clean up between groups last year). The following list describes each scene briefly:

Scene 1 is a funeral scene of a teenage homosexual boy who has died of AIDS he caught from the ink on the book report graded by his pedophile homosexual Secular-History teacher. His disease-riddled body will be carried to the lake of fire by the Devil himself. Boils and blisters will pop realistic pus from the plague covered face of the sodomite child, while dysentery takes its horrible toll from his exploding buttocks, as he is placed into the lapping flames of eternal damnation. A band of cherubic angels suspended from the ceiling (provided by the kiddies at Landover Kindergarten) will look on, singing the Lord's praise for the Righteous Hand of Justice.

Scene 2 is a drunk-driving scene where a father realizes he has just killed his family. He will shoot himself in the head, just grazing his skull (splattering bits of bits of bloody skull on the windshield), and continue shooting bullets into his writhing drunk body until finally he lurches towards the on-lookers causing a spray of warm blood to spattered onto the unsaved crowd. Cackles of hellish laughter will be heard as the drunk's body goes limp and falls onto the floor.

Scene 3 will depict the real autopsy of a teen-suicide (We have flown in over 200 real corpses from morgues as far away as Istanbul for this event). The Christian doctor will pull the heart out of a each body and put it in a jar of formaldehyde labeled "Unsaved."
Scene 4 is a pre-teenage drug usage scene where everyone will be surprised who is really in control. The Devil will smoke marijuana with a 11 year old little girl. The girl will instantly become "stoned" and scream for the Devil to impregnate her with his unholy Spawn. Given the power of a gorilla by her evil drug, the little harlot will try to overpower the Beast and rape him, only to become violently ill and die of the all too familiar "marijuana overdose" like Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix before her!

Scene 5 is a riveting abortion scene. Satan will play the role of the Jewish doctor. As the fetus is sucked out of the woman's private area, the devil will open the bottle of bloody chunks and consume it. As the blood drips from the corners of his mouth, he will let out a Hellish burp! He will then smash the bottle on the floor, throw back his head, and let out a ghastly howl!

The final two scenes are hell and heaven. In hell the Tour meets Satan himself. Hell will be hot, smoky, loud, visually disturbing, and sensually confusing. Satan will boast that everything they have witnessed in Hell House has been his handiwork, and that he will have their souls, too. They are then rescued out of hell by angels and Landover Deacons that escort them to heaven where they finally meet Jesus. But Jesus will turn to them in a loud echoy voice and proclaim for all the room to hear: "You think you have just seen the Hell that awaits you? Ha! Wait till you see what the Father, me and the Holy Ghost have REALLY cooked up for you! An eternity of torture so brutal it will make what you have just seen look like a little fairy picnic! And don't come crying to me when you get there! Landover Baptist gave you the chance to be saved and you never took it. Never even picked up a pre-printed tithing envelope conveniently located by each exit! Get thee Hence you unsaved worthless Sinners!

Before leaving heaven they are given the opportunity to pray a prayer of salvation, and to also visit or pray further with a counselor. If they refuse to accept Christ, they are forced back into Scene 6 where they will enter a hidden door into Scene 6b. In this scene they will witness a deranged lust-filled homosexual raping a live chicken. The chicken will then be be-headed, de-feathered, and cooked. The unrepentant souls will then be given the choice of eating the unholy chicken or going forward to scene 7. If they refuse to eat the chicken, there is another scene, Scene 6c. This scene is the reason for the medical waver forms that an individual must sign before entering Hell House. Unrepentant souls will be beaten and whipped until they confess Christ (come early for preferred seating on the other side of the two-way mirror to witness this miracle of faith). It is an unforgettable 20 minutes. For some, an unforgettable night.

Hell House is cutting edge, it is shocking, and it is offensive. But it God's Truth. What Satan and his entourage of demons inflict on people through the killing of innocent unborn babies is offensive to the real Christian. Convincing the naive and ignorant they are born gay and then sentencing them to a life of bondage and oppression is offensive to the true Christian. Teenagers influenced by the poison of negro music they listen to through their CD's, telling them over and over again that suicide is the escape they're searching for is offensive to the saved Christian. Letting society's message that casual drug use is something everybody does is offensive to the real Christian. That is why Hell House must be bold. Liberals are bold in Hollywood, so we must be bold as well.
Be assured, that before leaving this year's Landover Baptist Hell House, unsaved individuals will absolutely recognize their own emptiness and devastation, and will most certainly ask Jesus to be their Lord and Savior.

(Unquote)

I hope someone - anyone - tells me that this - and the other 'Hell Houses' is a joke!

Seems legit MaraM.Checked out their Forum and that is also weird. Their Forum seems quite busy with Posts as recent as today.This pic posted in the forum I got a laugh out of.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread....81828#post81828

Oh DSTM, surely although the site itself seems 'legitimate' the forum can not be?! The posts are not just weird, they make so sense at all! Think I'll take another peek around and see if this particular Baptist Church is being shunned by other ones, etc. And I have my fingers crossed that 'Hell Houses' are extremely rare.

(Interesting photo of apparently a Life Advisor on the forum section too - geesh).

- - - Just did a bit more looking and found that apparently the 'Hell Houses' are not just still happening but that if you send $299 you too can set one up for your own Church. And the kit apparently not only contains sound tracks, the 'OutReach Manual' contains all sorts of helpful advice such as, "in order for a realistic portrayal of an abortion, "Pieces of meat (should be) placed in a glass bowl to look like pieces of a baby... purchase a meat product that closely resembles pieces of a baby."

Okay, now I really feel sick. And yes, I know I'm being intolerant but surely these Hell Houses can not claim to 'do no harm'. Sigh.

Rest easy MaraM -

Landover Baptist Church does not really exist.



Friendly reminder:

Just because something is on the Internet does not necessarily make it true.

Hi John and thanks for discovering that 'Landover Baptist Church' doesn't exist - reassuring in itself because the forum section alone made one wonder.
And thanks for the advise to 'rest easy' - gentle smile - but it seems that 'Hell Houses truly do exist (and I'm not referring to those staged byAmerican Repertory Theatre, for example).

http://ctlibrary.com/851 - Christianity Today Library

http://www.godestiny.org/hell_house/HH_kit.cfm - New Destiny Christian Centre

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/religio...-HELL31.article ...
"2006, Chicago's Salem Baptist Church wants teenagers to go straight to "hell." Admission is $7 and passengers arrive at its gates on a yellow school bus. Salem's "Nights of Terror" promises to "scare the hell out of teens" by guiding them on a half-hour tour through Hades -- or at least what passed for it in the don't-call-it-a-haunted-house set up in the church's administrative offices at 109th and Cottage Grove".

But far more importantly, I found the below article, written by Barbara Brown Taylor who teaches at Piedmont College and Columbia Theorlogical Seminary.
http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=2651

Not more important because she confirms these things go on, but important I felt I could 'rest easy' knowing that apparently most Christians do not approve of this type of thing either.

(Quote)
"The phenomenon of hell houses in the Bible Belt, a swath of the southern United States that grows wider by the day ... the first hell house likely appeared in Texas in the 1970s. Popular interest built through the 1980s and spiked in the 1990s with the approach of the millennium. After the events of 9/11, some churches added scenarios based on the vivid horrors of that day.

It is easy for the young and the vulnerable to mistake it for God's work. Few holiday viewers are equipped to debate the merits of the theology behind these scenes. Also, the point of a hell house is not to make you think. Its point is to make you recoil and react, so that you leap into the arms of Jesus out of plain, gut-wrenching fear".

I wonder, with as much respect as possible, why anyone would think something like this would get more converts than having the opposite effect. Having adults attend - it's their choice. Send a child and in my heart I feel it's truly child abuse.

However, other religions say they are they are the right ones and all the rest are wrong. Therefore, it's what you believe in your self. Since all religions claim they are the right one, then you will never know which one is right.

Not true. Study the Bible yano. I cant PROVE but I can read the Bible and see what it is saying is true. The Bible says we need faith, and it only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.
Prophecies predicted in the Bible thousands of years ago coming true today.
http://www.livingwaters.com/Merchant2/grap...hecy/index.html

Mara Hell houses exist but the one you posted did not?

I have heard of them and People from my church have went to them.

Yes, CGM - the first site I found, as I mentioned, appeared real but in all honestly I was relieved to find it was not (the 'forum' section alone would have made me think that only 'nutters' were members - eek!). All the other links I posted spoke of actual 'Hell Houses'.

I do wonder how the members of your congregation felt when attending one of them? Because as I said, I do think adults have the right to attend but can only hope no children were taken - eep!

I wish no disrepect, but worrying about the 'end' coming soon hhas haunted people for many, many years - and I do wonder if there is something that has changed to reinforce the belief it's now, rather than all the not quite right predictions that have gone before?

All faiths say they are the only true faiths. You will not know if you chose the right one untill you die (or if the preachers on TV today have it the "Revalation" comes. heard that line one to many times 1996, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2012. I'll worry when when a guy looking like "Ghostrider"come knocking on my door).

Prophecies from The Dead Sea Scrolls, Nostradamus, and Oriental books of prophecy are coming true today. Also the (ahem) "Bible Code" can be reproduced using any book that size when translated into the languages of the original Bible.

I wanted to go but it was years ago and I think only 14 and older can go in.

True, but can you predict something BEFORE it happens? Most likely not. Same exact thing was Nostradamus's predictions..

Plus I can read the Koran or any other main book for any other religion and see what it is saying is true, too.


---

Just out of curiousity, not to attack the Christina religion, but I do remember in the Bible about the Babylons where God punished them for trying to build a building up to heaven. Yet today we have made it to the moon and beyond with a few disasters. And yet every year we send more humans up to the International Space Station. Wouldn't God try punishing us for being in space?

Re: "Hell Houses" (i'm sorry i missed this one its a good story). Liberty University puts one on every year called "Scaremare" that is billed as a haunted house (It happens during October) and held in a old Warehouse on the bad side of town. I thought nothing of it until I went one year (Im not a Haunted house person, Eggs and paintballs are more my style) once i got to the end this guy started preaching and I realized I had walked into the "Pot-Luck dinner" trap and there was no getting out until the guy was done.

Really do hope it was a milder version than some apparently are - at least you got to the end before the 'price' for dinner started - gentle smile. Please don't answer if this makes you uncomfortable, BlackSpyder, but what did you think of it (other than the 'tricky' method used' to get you there)?

When I read of things like this, intentionally created to "scare hell" out of someone (literally, I guess) and predictions that one had better convert and quickly 'or else', I have always wondered if it would not perhaps be better (and more successful) if more emphasis was spent on the goodness that the Bible contains and on kindess, compassion and tolerance, rather than 'fear'.

And no, I don't say this to irritate anyone - I wondered about this even when I was a little kid and the nightime pray was 'If I should die before I wake" and passages such as 'suffer the little children to come unto me- egad. (And I suspect I wasn't alone in this either). It could only be my perception but it seems often the fear starts young and can increase with time.

honestly, it was a good haunted house but I laughed my way through it, as anyone with any sense of reality would (Its fake!!). Its not something I would send a 10 year old to though.

BTW: "The Pot-Luck Dinner Scam" - Its the Scam that every church in the Southern United States has used. They call up former members and vistors that filled out the "visitation card" and invite them to a Pot Luck dinner (no service is mentioned). Then once you get there they shut the doors and begin preaching in the Hall which only has 2 doors one behind the preacher and one in the back guarded by a deacon. You anit going nowhere. But you get fed after you listen to an hour of ranting (I usually sleep through it).

BTW: "The Pot-Luck Dinner Scam" - Its the Scam that every church in the Southern United States has used.

Interestingly enough I have lived in Georgia for almost 20 years, been to 6 different churches, and visited over 20 (of various denominations), and have never even heard of this scam. So to make the above statement is well, false.

and passages such as 'suffer the little children to come unto me- egad.

Here is the "The Message" version of the verse you are referring to, because you seemingly have no idea what Jesus was saying. I laughed out loud when I read the misuse of the phrase.

The Message: Mark 10:13-16
13-16The people brought children to Jesus, hoping he might touch them. The disciples shooed them off. But Jesus was irate and let them know it: "Don't push these children away. Don't ever get between them and me. These children are at the very center of life in the kingdom. Mark this: Unless you accept God's kingdom in the simplicity of a child, you'll never get in." Then, gathering the children up in his arms, he laid his hands of blessing on them.

Hello Mara.

I have attended Baptist churches for the majority of my life and have never heard of these Hell Houses, though I find the idea of trying to show people how bad hell will be so that they will not want to send themselves there. I'm glad to read that Landover church is a fake. Even if it was, it would be another case of a False Teacher gaining control.

Yano, here is the answer to your question. The record of what you are asking about is in Genesis Chapter 11. After the Flood, God had told Noah and his family to "be fruitful and multiply and fill the whole earth". They did multiply but defied God's command and did not spread out and fill the earth. Here is the passage

1 At one time all the people of the world spoke the same language and used the same words. 2 As the people migrated to the east, they found a plain in the land of Babylonia[a] and settled there.

3 They began saying to each other, “Let’s make bricks and harden them with fire.” (In this region bricks were used instead of stone, and tar was used for mortar.) 4 Then they said, “Come, let’s build a great city for ourselves with a tower that reaches into the sky. This will make us famous and keep us from being scattered all over the world.”

5 But the Lord came down to look at the city and the tower the people were building. 6 “Look!” he said. “The people are united, and they all speak the same language. After this, nothing they set out to do will be impossible for them! 7 Come, let’s go down and confuse the people with different languages. Then they won’t be able to understand each other.”

8 In that way, the Lord scattered them all over the world, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why the city was called Babel,[b] because that is where the Lord confused the people with different languages. In this way he scattered them all over the world.


Seafox14

MaraM, I laughed at this.....not that it has anything to do with Christianity, but that you are not willing to check the validity of things before you post them. The site is fictitious, and the church doesn't exist. Simple google searches show that it is a humor site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Baptist_Church

From now on, before you get bent out of shape....try doing a little bit more research.

Reason for edit: (Noticed someone already pointed out the above.)


I find it interesting that people get upset at these alleged "hell-houses" yet they will let their children go see movies at the theatre depicting evil, torture, murder, blood and gore as entertaining things.

Reading through the posts of the weekend, I see how far different my views are from what some might call "mainstream Christianity"....it saddens me to see some of it.

Its truth that the Christian church is currently spitting out more people than it accepts. When it spits them out, they often end up very hurt and bitter. Been there, done that, trust me.

While there is an element of "Doom and Gloom preaching" in Christianity...we don't all believe that. And we certainly don't all approach sharing our faith in that way. The church I attend now has not one iota of teaching in that method. It is also designed as more of a discussion than one man "teaching" us how to live and what to believe. There is a concept that many, many Christians have unfortunately bought into, that they need to seek the council of someone who has been a believer longer, and that knows more than they do about Christianity. The truth and reality (Biblically speaking) is that you, being a Christian, have the same Holy Spirit within you that the pastor or teacher does. This truth is being overshadowed and lost in current teachings.

Hi SeaFox,

I'm so pleased that you feel 'Hell Houses' (the real ones that exist) are another case of a False Teacher gaining control - and it doesn't surprise me that you feel this way, gentle man. It's only my personal opinion but there are enough kind and good things to stress without the fearful things put first and foremost and perhaps the ones that do it this way are not only "False Teachers" but feeding some 'perverse little need' within themselves.

- - - -

jwinathome Re: "you are not willing to check the validity of things before you post" [/i]... please read reverse posts.
Re: [i]"From now on, before you get bent out of shape....try doing a little bit more research" ... please read reverse posts. They exist and,in fact, the Churches using this method seem very proud of it.

I suspect a great many Churches do use 'Pot Luck' dinners and because they may not in your area does not make BlackSpyder's statement false in his area. (I think most of us could 'read' what he meant).

It's a wee bit sad that the words 'as a child" weren't noticed in my earlier post when seeing the remainider of the sentence about "suffer little children to come unto me". Perhaps I can add to the laughs of your day by also saying that when overhearing a friend of my parents had been 'fired', I spent many nights crying because I thought someone had literally set fire to him.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, jwinathome, while still trying to maintain our Forums rules of being polite.

I was a Christian for many years - and many similar to me can also say the same thing. I (and they) am not ignorant about the Bible and it's teachings and it may surprise you that much of the good things remain with us always. And even as I child when I had a great deal of difficulty understanding certain things (but then again, I was 4 years old), I knew one lesson and I knew it well. Be kind to others as much as possible and do no intentional harm.

Misunderstandings occur - we are all human - but how lovely it would be if we all tried very, very hard to remember the lesson that even small children can remember - be kind to others and do no intentional harm.

BTW: "The Pot-Luck Dinner Scam" - Its the Scam that every church in the Southern United States has used.

What of that statement suggests only select churches in the Southern United States have used the method?

*I was referring to the link that you posted. You were asking for other people to please tell you that it was a joke. Why weren't you willing to research the link yourself to find if it was valid? I'm sure there are many churches that use "hell" to deter people from wanting to go there.

*Who said the phrase "suffer the little children" to you when you were young? Was that all they said..."suffer the little children"....?

*You say you were a Christian for many years...I cannot judge whether or not you were. One would ponder why it is that you "left" Christianity.

*but how lovely it would be if we all tried very, very hard to remember the lesson that even small children can remember - be kind to others and do no intentional harm. Love your neighbor as yourself...yes, it is a beautiful concept. Unfortunately, we live in a fallen world. Based upon my readings of atheism however, they won't acknowledge this is a fallen world. So its no wonder that many atheists don't understand the concepts of evil and the imposition of evil.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, jwinathome, while still trying to maintain our Forums rules of being polite.
If you indeed want to say something you feel would be outside the realm of the forum rules, or impolite, by all means private message me, or if you wish, I would gladly send you my email address.

It's only my personal opinion but there are enough kind and good things to stress without the fearful things put first and foremost and perhaps the ones that do it this way are not only "False Teachers" but feeding some 'perverse little need' within themselves. Just for the record... This statement is absolutely true, and I think you make an excellent point.

I think we've covered most of the points already but thank you for the kind offer to send an email. Fortunately, I've said what I wished to say already already here on the forum.

Re: "*You say you were a Christian for many years...I cannot judge whether or not you were. One would ponder why it is that you "left" Christianity.

Gentle smile, because I'm not sure it's up to us to judge if another is a Christian or not. But I am interested in the above sentences and perhaps you'd explain a wee bit further.

Well, the Bible does teach that we shall know who is by their fruits. But as I said, I cannot judge whether or not you are, because I don't know the fullness of the fruit of your life...and never could know. Again, a person would ponder why you "left" the faith. I know many people who have "left" the faith. Some which have passed away now, others which returned to the faith, and others that still struggle to understand what they were taught, and why.

For example...did you leave the Christian faith because Christians are against assisted suicide which atheism is in favor of? Things like that.

This is my opinion is why I hate ALL RELIGIONS. I can't stand those booths at carnivals where they say "oh, your Christian eh? Well have you fully accept Jesus into your heart? Blah, blah blah..." It's not up to my fellow man to tell me what God wants from me or let alone tell me if I'm a good Christian or any other religion I belong to. I can't stand the human control man has put over religion. If I want to be Christian I'll be Christian on my own time in private and public. I am not going to preach any religion to any body. I am not going to recruit anybody that doesn't want to believe in my religion.

Why do I have to see my fellow man accepts me as being Christian, Jewish or even Islamic? Why? I thought as long as one of said Gods knows I have accept Him into my life and my body and soul etc... that I would be consider part of said religion.

Why do I have to see my fellow man accepts me as being Christian, Jewish or even Islamic?

Who said you did? And if someone did, who said you have to listen to them?

But that's the problem depending on what community you live in they might look down upon you. Which do you think is right? That you might be out casted from your own community if they don't think your Christian, Jewish or Islamic enough?

Well yano, I would fully question and detest any "Christian community" that would look down upon you or cast you out because they don't think you are "Christian enough". (I cannot speak for the others as I have never been a part of their faith.)

I would definitely not stick around with those people. The things you mentioned are some of the reasons I have not been back to certain churches.

As a Christian you are supposed to go out and share the gospel. The people choose whether or not to believe or not.

So basically as with all religions you are required to recruit more people.

So basically as with all religions you are required to recruit more people.

Nope. God asks us to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. I will grant you that some people carry that to the extreme. Actually a lot. But it is certainly not about recruitment.

Hinduism does not require or encourage recruitment of more followers. In fact, many Hindus believe that one cannot convert to Hinduism - they believe that one must be born a Hindu to be a Hindu.

Many do believe that, but many also believe that just taking on the practices and calling themselves Hindu is in effect a conversion.

More tolerance:

According to muslims, and even a passage in surah 2,the qur’an is a book never to be doubted, never to be questioned:

"When one Islamic scholar, Suliman Bashear, taught his students at An-Najah National University in Nablus that the Qur’an and Islam were the products of historical development rather than being delivered in perfect form to Muhammad, his students threw him out of the window of his classroom."

what's your point? you post a lot of these things... i miss the purpose.

The topic is called miscellaneous religious topics. I pointed out earlier in the thread that I believe the fundamental beliefs and teachings of islam are wrong. This is just another example of tolerance as it pertains to religion.

"The Quran's commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims are unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet's career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace." - Gregory Davis

Anyone have any arguments as to why the doctrine of abrogation shouldn't be applied? Do most people even have the slightest idea that the qur'an as it is currently translated is not chronologically correct?

And the Bible isn't only because the Original Roman Catholic church sat down for hundreds of years altering how it was put together and then King James came around and put his translation in to wide use.

Point please.

It was in reference to the abrogation doctrine.

Um, as for the Bible, I'm not sure which version you are referring to, care to share where you learned the information?

Some clarification from a student of history.

King James did not translate the Bible into English; around 50 scholars, using prior translations and what passed for a critical edition in the original, translated the Bible and dedicated it to King James (who was not exactly a saint himself)---whence the name for that version(1611).

The canon of the Bible was debated for several centuries, and different books received approval for inclusion in different areas, and there is no reason to believe that the various collections of texts had what came to be their special significance, although this is certainly debateable.
It is important to remember that the Roman Catholic church was at least in this period of history, more of an association of elders, bishops and congregations than the monolithic organisation of later times. It was not until around 360-390 that there seems to have been a general agreement (the Council of Rome, 382) about the Canon.

Regards,
John

One might think that the most recent scholarly translation of the Bible would be the most accurate so far since it would incorporate our latest understandings of both the languages and the times of the earliest writings.

I've noticed that more and more bibles include multiple translations, I suppose to assist the student in their understanding as they read and study it.

Not to get further off topic, but isn't it a wonder that the "word of God" has so many possible translations in English, and many other languages, yet is considered by many to be taken literally?

Is the Koran being treated the same way?

Just wonderin'.

Guess which major Biblical NT figure did NOT write a gospel?
Cheers,
John

"Accepted" Gospel or just a Gospel? (There are so many to choose from in the first section)