[b] " MURFREESBORO, Tenn. (AP) - Staff members of an elementary school staged a fictitious gun attack on students during a class trip, telling them it was not a drill as the children cried and hid under tables.

The mock attack Thursday night was intended as a learning experience and lasted five minutes during the weeklong trip to a state park, said Scales Elementary School Assistant Principal Don Bartch, who led the trip.

"We got together and discussed what we would have done in a real situation," he said.

But parents of the sixth-grade students were outraged.

"The children were in that room in the dark, begging for their lives, because they thought there was someone with a gun after them," said Brandy Cole, whose son went on the trip.

Some parents said they were upset by the staff's poor judgment in light of the April 16 shootings at Virginia Tech that left 33 students and professors dead, including the gunman. During the last night of the trip, staff members convinced the 69 students that there was a gunman on the loose. They were told to lie on the floor or hide underneath tables and stay quiet. A teacher, disguised in a hooded sweat shirt, even pulled on locked door.

After the lights went out, about 20 kids started to cry, 11-year-old Shay Naylor said.

"I was like, 'Oh My God,' " she said. "At first I thought I was going to die. We flipped out."

Principal Catherine Stephens declined to say whether the staff members involved would face disciplinary action, but said the situation "involved poor judgment."[b] (Unquote)

Source: http://www.mytelus.com/ncp_news/article.en...ticleID=2662226

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Really curious as to what others think of this.

For myself, I would be absolutely livid if this was sone to my elementary school child - geesh!

Speaking form my perspective this is just outrageous. I can see what they wanted to do but there are a few things wrong with what they did. They attempted to do a drill. what they messed up on.

1. Obviously not holding any drills to prepare people before
2. Saying that it was not a drill
3. having someone dress up like a would be gunman

We just recently had a threat at our school that there would a school shooting, the student had several fire arms, and a note on the would be attack. My feeling is there is no screwing around on theese issues. We should be prepared yes, thats why we have lock-down drills where all classrooms are locked and windows blinded, and we have a principal go around and check random doors and windows. The thing is we have been told what to do, where to go, where not to go, from what I read above it looks like the staff wanted to prepare the children but went about it the wrong way.

That was very poor judgement on the school's part. All drills should be reviewed by administrators before any actions are taken. Scaring children accomplishes nothing. IF (??) they were going to do something like this, they should have went over the drill with the students first, ran the drill explaining what was happening, ended the drill, reviewed what happened, and then run the drill again without guidance. After everything was over, talk about what happened.

I question the need for this type of drill for those children.

About the school staff...
The Assistant Principal should be fired.
The Principal should be heavily disciplined.
Any staff involved would be sat down and explained why this was the perfect example of what not to do.

Yes, I agree. Whatever were they thinking?!!!

I think it was about 3 days after the shooting happened that a teacher of elementary children in our area decided to have a 'mock killing/copy of the shooting" during her drama class. Most parents were furious but nope, she wasn't fired.

While I could be wrong about this, suspect if the other teachers in each school could have a confidental vote, the silly twits that come up with this stuff would be terminated.

Oh so over the years all the shootings they couldnt learn from them?
This is sad...

I also find this Outrageous.These so called Teachers are truely sick people.They must have a Narcissistic streak in them to want to see Children suffer.The teachers would know it would scare them nearly to death. I'm sure that some of these Children will have Nightmares for a long time to come.That none of these Children will ever forget this,and I wouldn't mind betting some may even need Psycho help.These Teachers shouldn't be allowed to teach again.It would serve no real purpose putting these Children through this experience.Tell the Children what they think is the correct procudure would be in a given situation,but to pretend it's real is utter stupidity.IMHO.

Thanks MaraM for bringing this to our attention.

I agree DSTM, this is showing that there is a particular fascination with death and fear with regard to the teachers or authority figures involved.

Kids at that age I don't believe have the same capability to cope with this type of situation as kids in college.

Do they ever sound the alarm in the school and have teachers run around and say..."AHHH, there's a tornado heading straight for the building." then watch the kids panic....no....they have drills to instill in the children the best way to handle the situation SHOULD IT arise.

By the way...someone had to approve this action. Wonder who.

I would like to see the parents stage a 'drill' on Parent-Teacher Night!

I wonder how those teachers would react when they are told that their lives are in danger and that it is 'for real'.

Whomever approved this and took part in this are despicable! I agree with training the students, but there are ways to inject realism without going that far. I mean how many of us truly conceptualized death at that age? What possible benefit could those actions have had, aside from making the operators feel big and important?

I will tell you this, they are all fortunate that times have changed. This crap is just the sort of thing for which my father would have made a special visit to the school to whoop some @$$! And he would not have been the only one. That's what these folks need, some fear themselves, fear and respect for those signing their checks, the taxpayers.

At some point we have to stop empowering those who wish us harm, don't we? The terrorists, the school shooters, the hostage takers, the suicide bombers. Preparation is one thing, but putting children through these ordeals that serve no purpose; well, now I want to kick some @$$!

the whole idea of setting up a mock gun attack regardless of the virginia tech tragedy is ridiculous and if i
was the parent of any of those children i would be calling for resignations or dismisal of all staff involved.

on another note this caught my attention from the first post


do children of 11 actually talk like that now

Outraged. And this is not the first instance of a mock attack on a school.

But in this case, the kids were told it was real.

Have been trying to imagine what it must be like for the children - and their parents now.

If it had been a day care provider that did something this cruel and utterly stupid to innocent children, I'm sure they would been fired in a heart beat! Yet it seem there will be no repercussions to the teachers responsible for this. I'd be ever so hesitant to continue entrusting my child with a teacher that has such poor judgement and it must be ever so frustrating for so many of the parents involved.

Unbelievable.i am amazed every day at how stupid some people are.!

You just couldn't make it up!

I agree with the school. The best way to teach a lesson is to recreate the scenerio. With their mock school shooting situation, they could gauge the reactions of the students. Telling someone what they should do in a school shooting is fine and dandy, but people won't really know what they would do unless they actually experience it themselves and believe it to be real until it is over. If I was a parent of one of those kids, I would be commending the school, honestly. Parents are whining because it scared their children, it would have been a lot scarier if it had been for real, but now those kids can be told what to do should that situation ever happen again. People need to quit being so sensitive. A valuable lesson was taught; they got to experience what it would be like first-hand and now will hopefully be more prepared if that ever happens again.

Hmm, seems like I'm the only person who approves of the school's action. Let the flaming begin...

Hi 'solaris32' I just hope you are not a School Teacher. Seriously,you would put your child through Trauma just in case.
I have a feeling you are bored, and only posted for the reaction, from other Members.

Actually no. That's how I truly feel. It wasn't until after I posted my opinion that I read everyone else's and saw I was the only one supporting the school. I applaud the school for using such a straight-forward and brutal tactic at teaching a lesson. I think it would be cool if my college did something like that. It would be interesting to see what I and other people would do. And again, it would help us to get to know ourselves better if we actually experience something like that first-hand. Such experiences cannot be taught on paper or with words, and that's why I agree with the school's shooting drill.

solaris32, I think I can understand your 'rationale', as we have become a soft society. However, these are 11 year olds!

We are not a society with a "Warrior Class", thus there is really no need for such an extreme exercise. Some things are best left unprepared for, and I say this assuming you think this scenario in any way prepared the kids for a real-life scene. But honestly, those students would react much the same 3 months from now in the same situation. This sends such a blatant message to all who wish to terrorize us (from without or within), that we are so worried about possible future actions that we are willing to terrorize our own children now.

Would you shoot your child in the calf (let's say a clean through and through, with a .22) in order to teach them to deal with the pain, just in case they happened to get shot someday?

We don't give soldiers live ammo right out of the gates, why? Because they might harm themsleves or others?

From what I can tell of the exercise, the only thing that happened was a teacher rattled on the locked door from the outside to simulate the gunman. Hardly extreme in my opinion. While a lot of the students will probably react the same way if it were to happen a few months in the future, hopefully some will be better prepared. If you don't teach them now, when they are supposed to learn?

No I wouldn't shoot my kid with a gun to teach them to deal with pain. But if they tripped and fell and scraped their knee I would tell them to suck it up and be strong. I wouldn't push them to make them fall either. In the school exercise, no one got hurt. It was all psychological.


"This sends such a blatant message to all who wish to terrorize us (from without or within), that we are so worried about possible future actions that we are willing to terrorize our own children now."

I disagree. It's sending the message that we are willing to learn and will no longer be so terrorized by the same tactics. If we don't prepare our children for the possibility of a gunman, then they will be ill prepared if one actually does show up. To not prepare is ignorance and unnacceptable. And I think the best way are simulations like the school did. Why do you think they have fire drills? A fire can be just as deadly. There should be "gunman drills" or something.

Well, this is a 'psychological training' that I don't want my children to endure because some moron in a school district decided it was best for them.

I must ask, what do you expect 11 year olds to do? Fight back? If that is the case, then I can almost agree with your point about being better prepared (although I should still be the one to train them). However, they were being trained to sit quietly in a lockdown situation. This whole scenario hinges upon the idea that those within the school (teachers, principals, aides) are aware enough of their surroundings and cool enough under pressure to sound the alarm. Wouldn't training in these areas be better served? How much training have the adults endured. I would like to see live ammo used in their training session (if we are pursuant of realism). When the adults have been put through the paces and come through well-trained, then I might consider letting them try to teach my child how to survive.

The truth is, they had no right to perform this without parental consent. Furthermore, without knowing any of them personally, I would dare to say most of them lack the 'grace under fire' that they expected to teach the students.

Perhaps there is a place for training, but that is what it should be. Have you ever taught kids in a class?

I do agree that perhaps asking for permission from the parents and telling them that if they don't want their kid to participate in the exercise, then the school will take them and put them in a seperate room or something.

I would also expect the teachers to be trained and put through this as well. Perhaps the principal could hire some people and drill the teachers and the students. Blanks might be nice, live ammo would be unnecessary and dangerous.

11 year-olds I would expect to learn to be quiet and hide under a desk, and the teacher to defend if the gunman enters the room. Preferably ambush them at the door. Most 11 year-olds would probably run-around and scream and cry, but thats not a good thing for them to do, and they need to be taught in a real-life situation, in my opinion.

Re: "It was all psychological."

Yes, but in many ways cruelty and hurt from psychological wounds last a heck of a lot longer than a non-fatal physical wound, surely.

But that aside, little children should be allowed to be just that - little children. We seem in such a hurry to end childhood - why, because we can't wait for them to face the scary and unsettled world we adults do?

Things such as never taking candy from strangers or getting in a stranger's car, etc - these can be taught with common sense and without scary the hell out of little ones ... what took place that day is, to me at least, just plain cruel and stupid.


Re: "But if they tripped and fell and scraped their knee I would tell them to suck it up and be strong. I wouldn't push them to make them fall either".

Just a gentle thought, solaris32 ...

Giving a child a gentle hug and sending them on their way with a trusty bandaid stuck on the knee won't turn them into little weak creatures - honest.

This is sad. I would call the teachers terrorists (not by Bush's defintion) but for infecting a real fear of terror into children when there was no need for it. I understand there hearts where in the right place, but there brains weren't.

Not outraged, but just incredibly disappointed in the incompetence of the staff to correctly teach the students an escape drill. The children's reaction shows that they were not even prepared for such an emergency beforehand. The mock gunman scenario might have been a learning lesson if the children had known what to do beforehand.

Last year, there was a bomb threat in my school district targeting three schools, including mine. The bomb was scheduled to go off during the first school hour. While the other two schools canceled their classes, the school I attended did not, and did not disclose the situation to the students. Of course, after seeing police cars in the parking lot, students phoned their friends at the other two schools, and word got out about the bomb. The staff claimed that they had performed a thorough check of the school in approximately the twenty minutes they had before school started. The students, however, were outraged that the staff had not even bothered to tell them about the bomb threat until after the designated explosion time. If there had been a bomb that the police did not locate, the students would have been injured due to staff incompetence.

Our town's police department did the same exact thing with our high school. But... elementary kids?

Every faculty member involved in this needs to be thrown in a pit of doom and despair.

Do this at my school and I will personally Knock some sense into who ever came up with it thats a new level of stupid

Can't see it being anymore outrageous than the drop and cover drills, simulating a nuclear attack, that I went through in elementary school. Don't know if they do still do that nonsense nowdays.
All I could think of while under my desk is I won't be seeing my family anymore.

With respect, 'Rainbow32' How can you compare the 2 scenarios,as being equal? May pay to read the Story once more.

I found some great gum under there!

Who said I was comparing the 2 as equal?
Never assume something which is not given.
I was stating that both was outrageous.

Sorry,I read your post as making a comparison.(Highlighted)

If I was a child in this, I would do what my dad always taught me. If you're on a group level, get some chairs and start throwing them up against the windows (if there are any) and get the heck out! Don't stay in there, that room will turn into a coffin if you don't start moving. That's what I would do if I were stuck in the room. I don't care what the teacher says, I'm leaving. Now if I was told there were about 25-50 people with guns going after the school, I just might sit tight (in case someone is outside), which most cases there isn't anyone.

It's great you have a plan in mind should a horror occur, Yano, and undoubtedly your dad gives great advice. One wee thing - you may wish to go over circumstances with you dad using different scenarios, as well - someones the first one to move in a group is the first one shot? Eep! (Personally I must be a physical coward as I suspect my first instinct would be to hit the floor and pretend a heavy duty 'faint' - gentle grin).

True, but if you're in a classroom that is 3 rooms down from where the gun man is you probably have a better chance getting out a window than being closer to the gun man. Of course if he is in the room you'd flip over a table and hide behind it, or get everyone to throw something at him.