10 minutes ago, I posted my laptop for sale on Craigslist (gots to pay da rent, ya know).

8 minutes ago, I had this exchange:


I sent an e-mail to eMachines support (just asking where I can download a driver for one of their computers and it takes them a week and a half to respond and then only to tell me to get bent!

Arg!

PS

I noted all the grammatical and spelling errors (as you can see). Just a word to the wise: most scammers have apparently never taken the time to learn to spell, punctuate, or compose a coherent sentence.

I will not have any dealings over the net whatsoever.Will not bank over the net.If I can't get Antispyware or Antivirius Software for nix,I don't get it.Won't use Ebay either.I think it's better to be sure than sorry.
If I have missed out on great Bargains,so be it.I think the net is too risky to do Business over.IMHO.
I have had my share of Nigerian Scam Emails.

Indeed, you're position is not without logic. I do use the net for transactions but I'm very careful. Still, I worry.


Maybe I'll just go back to the barter system... it's safer

Anyone wanna pay my rent this month in exchange for a nice, used laptop computer?

That is what you get messing with these gentlemen

You know, considering how many Nigerian Generals, office holders, widows of generals and/or office holders, shady attorneys and such who have personally contacted me in an unsuccessful effort to give me what amounts to free money (unless you consider grand larceny as some sort of risk), you'd think they'd get the message and go offer millions of dollars to some other, more worthy American. Perhaps an orphanage, or some sort of non-profit cheese factory?

The scam that I always wonder about always leaves me bemused. How can anyone getting an email or a telephone call saying they've 'won' possibly think they have if they've never even entered a contest. Yet apparently, this common and 'low grade' scan works even now - with people sending in money to get their 'prize'.

I'm not so concerned about the grammatical and spelling issues as I am about the contents. After all, there are a lot of other scams that appear in different venues written with perfect spelling and grammar. Some of the errors I see in the pasted message are the same kinds of errors my ESL students make and is influenced by their native language. One of these is the use of 'will' instead of 'would'. It is not easy to learn when to use one and not the other. Native English speakers don't actually learn that in school, rather they acquire it by being surrounded by the language from birth.

Other errors are caused by carelessness or haste, and I see a lot of native English speakers doing that! . This error is quite understandable as the 'u' is right next to the 'i' on the keyboard - in short it is a typo and the writer didn't proofread his/her post. Furthermore, he/she has spelled it correctly elsewhere in the post.

This one is influenced by two things: at least some familiarity with British English spelling patterns, and not totally understanding some of the rules governing proper plural formation of words ending in y or possibly it is another typo. Without more examples of his/her writing I cannot determine which. He dropped the 'y' but neglected to change it to an 'i' before adding the 'es' ending, or else simply left it out by accident. Correct British spelling: enquiries.

As you can see, I am a language teacher. One of the things I teach my students is how to recognize the bait (in Mara's example the phrase "you have won ________ ") and traps and scams in writing which includes a lot of advertising. One example is credit card offers. In huge letters and figures: 0% introductory rate. In really tiny print elsewhere is what the rate will be in a few months. Usually something in the vicinity of 20% or higher, not to mention other fees. But how many people actually look for that fine print and read it? And while they are learning these things they are also learning vocabulary, interpretation, reading an expository text as opposed to a narrative, inferencing etc. I also try to teach them safe internet habits.
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It does seem in a lot of places businesses are taking advantage of customers rather than providing them services. There are other places that do provide excellent customer service. I've been delighted with the customer service of Slateboard in Canada for example. I have loan managing software from them. They have actually created patches for their software to solve problems that were specific to me - at least at that time! One result of treating customers well is having loyal customers which creates a healthy business.

Orange Blossom

Well, as a language teacher I expect that you share my unending and pathological hatred of people who can't form a coherent sentence or be bothered to learn the rules of grammar and syntax. Not to mention learning to spell. Obviously I give people whose first language is not English a lot of slack when it comes to this; you should hear me butcher French! But I extend no such courtesies to people whose first language is English.

Further, I abhor AOLspeak. LOL, ROTFL, BRB are okay for chat rooms when it's real time and you're holding a conversation. But it has no place in more formal writing (and yes, I consider online forums and such formal writing; I know: lame.) The one exception to this is the ever-useful RTFM. I love that one.

Actually no, I don't. The written, unofficial standard American English is in many ways a foreign language to many native English speakers. People mostly don't talk that way. In addition, there are many ways of speaking and using English. Acknowledging this I think is key in addressing the needs of the various students in our classes. Knowing that we need to teach academic English as a second language and comparing the differences between the different English styles helps people become better readers and writers. More important than grammar, syntax, and spelling in writing are the following: Is the idea clear? Is the piece well-organized? Is the language style and vocabulary appropriate for the audience? Does the writing match the genre it was written for?* For example: The piece is supposed to be a letter to provide evidence of a banking error. Is the piece in letter format? Is the problem, the error, introduced and described? Is the evidence there? Is the evidence presented in a logical fashion? Is the evidence discussed to illustrate how it shows that the bank made the error in question? Is the letter respectful?

Grammar and spelling are like the dishes for a meal. If the food is lousy, the best china doesn't improve the flavor any. So, when I evaluate a piece of writing, I look at the larger issues first and see if there are problems there. I choose a larger issue to work on, and then choose one type of spelling error or one type of grammatical error and work with the student to understand and use the correct forms. It is equally important to point out what the student has done well and discuss why it works well. It makes no sense to point out spelling and grammar issues if the person's idea isn't clear or if the organization is muddled. This does not mean that I ignore these, but it is not the be-all and end-all of good writing. Grammar and spelling need to be addressed in context as well so there is an association with meaning. The best writers know when and how to break grammatical rules. Shakespeare did it all the time. As did Mark Twain and many other great writers.

*Okay, many of you have probably heard the mantra: Never end a sentence with a preposition, and you're probably thinking I have made a grammatical error here. Actually, I haven't. 'For' in this sentence is not a preposition. It is what linguists call a particle. In more of an every day English, it is part of a phrasal verb which is a verb composed of more than one word, in this case 'write for'. 'Put on' is another phrasal verb. I can say either of the following: I will put on my jacket. I will put my jacket on. 'On my jacket' is not a prepositional phrase in this case. Nothing is 'on' the jacket. Rather, 'jacket' is the object of the verb phrase 'put on', which is why I can put 'my jacket' between 'put' and 'on'. However, I could never say: I will put the jacket the table on. In this case, the prepositional phrase is 'on the table', and 'the table' must follow 'on'.
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Back on the topic of scams. I received a piece of mail today saying that I could save a bundle of money on my student loans if only I transferred the loans to them. Among other things, in bold face it says "No payments for 6 months." Barely visible in a faded print is a miniature superscript 2. It looks almost like a speck on the page, really easy to look over and miss. It took me 10 minutes to find the location of the footnote buried in fine print so small even I nearly needed a magnifying glass to read it. The footnote says: "Interest will continue to accrue on the loan during the period payments are postponed."

Here's what a lot of folks fall for: 1) They think that because they are having their loans transferred and because of that boldfaced print they do not have to pay the current lender if they are in repayment. The document says nothing about the necessity to continue payments with the current lender. So folks wind up in big trouble because they are now in default, unless they were in the grace period which is usually the first six months after graduating. 2) They miss the footnote and don't realize that the principal balance of the loan will actually go up because the accrued interest will be capitalized, that is added to the principal balance. 3) Many do not realize that consolidating their student loans during the grace period with anyone but the direct loan servicer with the Dept. of Education (There are certain qualifying rules in order to consolidate with them.) will result in their losing the rest of their grace period which will result in more interest being charged if they have subsidized loans.

Another thing: This document actually had false information on it. While it was fairly accurate in stating the amount of my consolidated loans, the writers seriously overstated the amount of interest I will pay on the loan with its present lender, the direct loan servicer, and then says that I will save several thousand dollars by transferring the loan to them. On top of that they do not say that I would lose my current interest rate, which in my case would actually result in a loan with a higher interest rate, one that would be a variable rate given the recent laws that were passed. My present consolidated loan is at a low fixed rate, much better than present student loan rates.

Scam, scam, scam. I'm going to use that document in my teaching and report these guys to the Better Business Bureau as well.

Orange Blossom

As far as all that is concerned, i write COMPLETELY differently on the net and in forums from how i have done in documents and assignments. The reason for this is because i am quite often SAYIN what i am writing, in my head or out loud, so i like what i write to reflect the way i was sayin somit!

Sometimes i even add letters to words or change their spelling cause they dont sound like how i am sayin em.

I dont speak "queens" english, so quite often words are cut off, not all the time but sometimes, depends how fast i'm speakin or how excited i am or just how my sentence is flowin, i quite often say me instead of my for example but then again sometimes i dont it all depends on the rhythem i am speakin in, and i dont mind this either and i am sorry that you do.

I find the rhythems at which people speak quite interesting and i also find the new internet language quite interesting too, language is in a constant process of change, and the change taking place at the mo is due to internet and mobile phones.

I quite like reading the different ways people write things, i always use to say to a couple of dylexic friends that although there are "proper" ways of writing things, they should not be ashamed of the fact that they spell/understand the way things are spelt differently, it might not be functional in many working environments but it is quite unique!

As for Laptop add, i thought his disreguard for the points within your advert were blatant and rude...almost desperate and stupidly so, ha ha! I was "laughing my arse off" (urgh that took alot of typin)! fairplay for postin it, i was very ammused

I personally dont reply to any adds that request my attention they are no different from door knocking window salesman, i'll go lookin as and when i need to .

Soz about me abbrevs'

NICE ONE!!! nn23

There are some really funny posts on the internet and sites dedicated to "scamming" the scammers.

Play with them and act stupid.

Get them to send a check. Then tell them you are on two them and they have been scammed.

It costs them up to 40 bucks to send a fake check and whatever over here. If everybody did this there would be fewer of them because they would go broke.

ha haaa thats sooo funny i might try that , i've sent a letter a couple of times to the competition scams saying that they can take my required 20£ postage out of my winnings.

We get a-lot of mobile phone companys giving us spam telesales phonecalls over here dont know if you get those too, but i had one once and unfortunately for the caller i was in one of my "funny" moods, anyway they were doin the same old, free phone with call time charges BLAH BLAH! and i started to grin, the guy seemed quite friendly so i said: "i tell you what, you give me the phone for free, with no call charges, and you got yourself a sale"

he laughed and said "yes madam sarcastically as though he was playing along" and proceded to try to steer the conversation back to his sale. i was like "no, you GIVE, ME a phone for free with no charges and i'll have it" I coulnt believe that he carried on trying to bring me back, i was like "i'm not jokeing" he tried again, it exculated as i got excited and empowered by his difficulty and confusion in reasoning with me. By the end i was demanding heavily, but pausing with hand over reciever so i could let out my hysterical laughter "GIVE MEEE THE PHONE...YOU GIVE IT TO ME FOR FREE!....nOOO call charges...SEND ME THE PHONE" ! He eventually hung up, the call lasted in all for about 15 minutes and i've never enjoyed a telesales call SO MUCH!

I know, i know, your probvably thinkin , i think i might have had friends there and was probably showing off, but i cant remember, ha ha it was just hilarious!!!

Most of the time, i usually try and convince the telesales people to leave their job and they can do much more with their lives...its true!

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC NOW..i think? he he SORRY

Yeah, but unfortunately there are still a number of people who actually fall for their scams.

Well lets just hope that at least a few of them have joined BC and get to read cowsgonemadd3's advice

It is crazy crazy though and not always a matter of stupid maybe more just misinformed. i guess the word needs to be spread in a more accessable way than casual chats in BC forum...i wonder how that could be done?

In your face information plastered in web browsers? thats a good idea maybe? i duno...you got any? Or know why this doesnt happen?

I thought it's relevant to bump CGM'S great link to "Scamming the Scammers"posted some months ago.
For those who haven't read it,here it is.

http://www.bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html

As someone for whom English isn't the first language it is mostly the spelling and punctuation butchering which causes problems. There are many cases, on this forum as well, where I simply can't decode what somebody has written. I also live in the fear that people misunderstand what I've written. My English skills, such as they are being the result of eight years of government sponsored educations and waay to much television, are just good enough that I at a later stage when reading something notice all the things I could have formulated better.

Do you really think it would be a better world if the scams where more like this:

One common language I'm afraid we'll never get.
Oh, why can't the English learn to set
A good example to people whose
English is painful to your ears?
The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears.
There even are places where English completely
disappears. In America, they haven't used it for years!
Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
Norwegians learn Norwegian; the Greeks have taught their
Greek. In France every Frenchman knows
his language fro "A" to "Zed"
The French never care what they do, actually,
as long as they pronounce in properly.
Arabians learn Arabian with the speed of summer lightning.
And Hebrews learn it backwards,
which is absolutely frightening.
But use proper English you're regarded as a freak.
Why can't the English,
Why can't the English learn to speak?

Mr. Alpha, that was a clever and fitting poem. granted, while on this forum i choose not to capitalize. however, it is simply because i am lazy. i consider myself a well read man, and i think my grammar is above average. there are times for proper English and times for slang. the real pity is in the fact that many of our children are not being taught proper English and it's importance. the ability to speak concisely and convey the intended message is undervalued in our society.

i wonder, Orange Blossom, what grade level do you teach? i agree with your attitude towards your students and their work. as a former teacher, i understand the frustration complicit with the feeling of always correcting students.

yet, i was taught that there is a right way to do many academic tasks. if, as a student you choose not to learn the right way, then you choose to practice the wrong way. there is no give to the scientific process or mathematics, why then should such leniance be provided to the art of mastering the written or spoken word?

i think scammers may be more effective if they employed better verbage, as they could boggle the minds of the masses with their precise lies. it wasn't exactly scamming, but when i telemarketed ( only for a little while), i noticed a better response when using the word 'yes' instead of 'yeah'.

Sung by Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady by Alan Jay Lerner and Frederick Loewe
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I teach many levels. Obviously the example I gave earlier wouldn't be used with early elementary students, but by the same token you're not going to teach these students complex-compound sentences.

My experience has been: correcting the grammar and spelling doesn't teach students how to do it correctly and in certain situations can cause greater difficulties in speech flow - if that is when you are doing the correcting - or the flow in writing. It can also result in students unwilling to take risks in writing so they never develop as writers.

Let's say I have a piece of writing with several misspelled words. I categorize the misspellings by type, then ask, what is causing these errors? I choose one type of error and create a lesson designed to teach how to spell those kinds of words correctly. I provide plenty of practice, then I give them their piece of writing and see if they can self-correct. This way they become independent writers. In some cases the misspelled word may not fit a spelling pattern. In this case, I have another strategy I learned in Janet Allen's Yellow Brick Roads that students use to learn how to spell the word. I select no more than three words at a time even with adults when using this strategy. With either method, I see if they use the correct spelling in other writing. Other misspellings are caused by haste or typos. What I need to teach in this case is proofreading skills, not word patterns or spelling rules. I have created a lesson specifically for that. After the proofreading lesson, I give the papers back to them, and they proofread and correct their own writing. As a final step, I will mark what they missed if it is at an appropriate level, and I do not use red ink.
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That scam I got in the mail regarding my student loans was written in 'flawless' English. The fact that more people fall for scams written or spoken in the unofficial standard just goes to show that too many folks aren't taught to analyse the content of what they are reading or listening to.
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Back on topic: I received something in the mail essentially shouting about a free expensive ring I could have. Well hidden in the fine print was shipping and handling costs, (So how is it free I ask?) and the fact that by sending for the 'free' ring you become a member of a club that sends you a piece of jewelry every month unless you tell them, in writing, not to send it ahead of time or tell them, in writing, to cancel your membership.

Hey, this is a funny one: A telephone solicitor called me to sell car insurance and didn't even pause long enough for me to slip in a single word. I put the receiver on the floor and continued with my interrupted task until the voice stopped, about 3 minutes later, when I picked it up again. I was asked, Will that be all right for you? I said, "No, thanks." And he starts off again, but this time I was able to insert a sentence: "I don't have a car." (which was quite true at the time). I heard, "Oh." Now just think of all the breath and time he would have saved had he let me insert that sentence at the beginning of his spiel.

Orange Blossom

Ahhhhh!!!!! Orange Blossom! You ended your sentence with a preposition!!!! Ahhhh!! Evil! You are the dark one!



Well, at least you didn't end it with a proposition!

Thats a good point with reguard to what i was saying about writing the way i want to write, it may be the case that trying to communicate my dialect people might not understand what i am saying, i have experienced this here already just recently with someone of whom i was not aware was foreign until they had to write a longer message to me. After i realised i started writing things more clearly....ha ha, sorry, TOTALLY off topic here

NICE ONE!!!

Oh my, now I am concerned that you will fall for clever scams. You missed a key part of what I wrote as is evident from the pasted quote. That key part is the asterisk following the question mark. Whenever you see superscript numbers or symbols in advertising it is vital to look for the additional information signalled by the superscript symbols and numbers to protect yourself from scams. Properly quoted, the question I wrote would appear like this (I have changed the color of the asterisk to make it stand out more.):



The asterisk says: There is further information. Please find the other asterisk and read what is written there. Doing so in this case would lead you to this paragraph (Please note the asterisk at the beginning. Once again I have changed the color to make it stand out more):



In that paragraph you would discover that 'for' in this instance is not a preposition but a particle which is part of a phrasal verb.

An important key to protect yourself from scams: Follow the superscripts to further information, which may be on other pages, and read the fine print. Pay attention to the content. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Orange Blossom

Orange Blossom, where were you when I was in school? I used to dread the red ink. Being dyslectic insured I had two to three spelling errors per row, so when I get the paper back it was absolutely covered in it.

Tsk I was trying to make a joke!

Oh, dear. My quirky sense of humor strikes again. I find hilariously funny things that many people don't, and I often can't figure out what other people find so funny when they burst out laughing. I can read straight through the funny papers without so much as a chuckle.

Anyway, in this case, maybe I've been hanging around folks too long who wouldn't have meant the statement as a joke.

Now, let's see. Are their any resources that teach how to teach humor and thus understand it? Orange Blossom goes off exploring the dark and quiet shelves of the university library searching for answers.
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Anyway, the note about what the asterisk may prove useful to others inundated with clever scam materials.

I'd love to put the scammers out of business.

Orange Blossom

Well, at least you're not stricken with my affliction! I tell jokes that no one else finds funny, and worse they often misinterpret them as being statements of my feelings on whatever the topic is. That is the result of my rather deadpan delivery.

I hear ya on all these scams. My sister (not the sharpest tack), actually got scammed by one of these 419 scams, only this one was different that I'd heard about (with the same results). This was considered a "love" scam, where the Nigerian finds an easy mark (a lonely woman, desperate for love), and posts an online dating site (or MySpace, as it so happened with my sister), geared specifically towards that woman. They then contact them, make friends, spend some time "getting to know" the woman, and making a TON of false promises like marriage. This guy told my sister he owned an orphanage in Nigeria, and was even going to change the name of his foundation to a combination of their names. After a month or so, he convinced my sister he was going to send her a cashier's check (red tape in his country, of course), and if she cashed it for him, she could take a cut of the money out, and send the remainder back to him.

The sad part is, my mom and I were blue in the face trying to explain to my sister that this was all a scam. We tried to tell her that if she went to cash the check, one of two things would happen: 1) she'd be arrested for trying to pass off a fake check, or 2) she'd have to back that check with her bank account and by the time the bank got wind of it, she'd OWE the bank because she'd be overdrawn by the amount of the fake money. For over 2 months, we tried to tell her. But she was convinced. Finally, something happened to make my sister wise up and drop this guy like a hot potato. And, as irony would have it, now she's becoming an in person ad denouncing this guy and his tactics. {sigh}

You'd never guess that my sister is 30 years old...and apparently VERY gullible. (oh, and promised her 9 yr old son he was getting a new daddy....and now the boy is heartbroken)

Ok, now that I've gotten that off my chest!!.....

Thanks for sharing the story with us,BikoBoo.Glad your Sister woke up in time.
No Gullible People----No Scammers.

Thanks for sharing Shelli, your story reminded me of what happened to my brother.
My brother got suckered into a scam like this when he was trying to sell his car on (surprise, surprise) myspace. He got three messages from different people and they all said the exact same thing.
I asked him if there was some sort of default fill-in-the-blanks kind of form that they use for a reply (I had never even heard of myspace at that time ) and he said no. Good thing the bank would only let him withdraw $200 against the fake check (because he could cover that).
I explained to him over & over that he should take the stupid ad off myspace and post it locally, where someone has to physically pick it up and give him the cash.

I'm sure a lot of people have heard of these scams, but those that perform the scams will always find a sucker. There are too many "needy" people that will take the bait.


Poor kid.