It's a scary world out there. I am all against child porn against as the next guy, but if only out of a million laptops that only 132 people had them, it isn't worth it. It's like the DUI checkpoints, if out of 1,000 cars they only stop 1 person that was intoxicated is it worth it? 999 people are inconvenience because an idiot cannot follow the law.

Technically, pictures of your children in the bathtub, shirtless, just goofing around inyour possession counts as child pornography.

How about this? Germany checks 22 million cards for child porn payments

22 MILLION credit card statements SEARCHED, for child porn. Only 232 people were caught. That's 0.001 percent of the search, caught with child porn. Another thing is, what about false positives? What about legitimate adult entertainment purchases, what if they show up, and someone is arrested for that?

~~~

So what do you think constitutes as enough? What about the ISP blocking said sites?

BT puts block on child porn sites

Techdirt: Canadian ISPs Try To Play Whack-A-Mole On Blocking Child

[FYI] (Fwd) Pa. Law to Block Child Porn Online

I don't mind them filtering the Internet for it. But as for the purchases? Why don't they do what our government does with pot busts? Go after the dealers and not the inviduals who carry it? Huh? If you cut off the supply then it can't reproduce..

~~~

So let's here what you have to hear..

Rules:

• First do not violate the forum rules!
• Secondly, please keep the topic clean nothing too in depth, we all (or most know) what porn involves we don't need graphic description.
• Please be polite and let's keep this civil. I want to here your opinions and not have this shut down by a mod because someone couldn't keep their cool.

f

anyone found guilty of child pornography should be shot and killed. however, all accused should have reasonable ability to defend themselves. a family man who has pictures of his child naked in the bathtub is not a pedophile. common sense can prevail if true consequences are carried out.

i should add that i am a believer in human rights, thus the illegal search of any private belongings af an individual are unconstitutional and should not be allowed. if it can't be done legally, but everyone knows the person is guilty, then the community will take care of itself. i am all for that.

Ok I don't know how it works,but have always wondered why/if content of site had to be established before a license or pemit to have a site is granted. You state what content your're carrying. BC is computer help,IRS is tax, whatever. The sites are somewhat grouped .com, org,or gov. Point is why isn't all porn made '.prn' and easily filtered and monitored if needed. I personnally don't honestly see the need for adult sites as some of those I've seen are sometimes quite degrading and abusive. Not to mention the PC malware. Perhaps another topic.

Now that said there is no place for child porn. I'm not talking of kids in the tub or on the potty. These should just be ignored as I truly don't feel hey are the market for these freaks. But again posession of such and not your family,so ther'd be no other reason to possess, you're guilty.

Now as far as posessing and selling, you're both guilty. Hang em high. Possession of pot, smokes ,booze by a non qualified person is a far different thing. Tho' both ends are guilty here also the crime itself is not a vile act. Children of child porn acts are violated never to heal. Someone needs to pay for that. In the other situation what've you got at worst a hangover.

"if out of 1,000 cars they only stop 1 person that was intoxicated is it worth it?"

Can you put a price on a life? That one could kill someone.

The people they do find need severe! punishment to make a example so other wont do it.

As for child porn yes they should keep searching for it. Dont let them get away with it. When caught severe severe punishment should be placed on them and put in the media what happened to them so they will be made a example of what not to do.

I wouldn't go so far as to say shoot and kill Pedophiles.I think they are sick and should never be allowed back in society when caught.I am in favour of Sterilisation and think it would have the desired affect.I think the Gov's are far too lenient with their sentanceing of there beasts.Many Pedaphiles here have appealed their sentances and are back working with children,as bus drivers and the like.
There is absolutely no excuse for having Child Porn photos or Videos in your possession ever,fullstop.
We have some very sick people in our society.Most of these offenders operate in secret and often their wives are not even aware of their perversion.
The laws here are absolutely stupid.You are not allowed to take a camera on the beach to take pictures of your family for you Album.You are not allowed to take a camera to a Public swimming pool for the same reason.You may be a pervert taking photos of little kids.A lot of families are missing out on photos they wont have in years to look back on.If a father walks down the street with his arm around his daughter,people now stare and think you may be a predator.It's sick and also sad the way this perception has gotton way out of hand.

DSTM. I cannot agree with you more. Society has already conformed to disowning anyone who shows affection for their family. It is disgraceful.

Now what about the laptops being held, and search while going through the airport? This has caused a stir among corporations. About how trade secrets could be exposed.

http://cerc.ca/PDFs/2007_Articles_Karas.pdf

Now when crossing our borders with laptops, even if you know you don't have child porn on your computer our government will still search your laptop (or even portable devices: ie: iPods, mp3 players...)

Any body found guilty of making or knowingly possesing child porn should be put away for a very long time with a "I'm a pedophile" tattoo on his/her forhead. if he/she makes it out of prision alive and is convicted again (like I believe 75% are) then it should be "life" with no option for parole or in the case of a actual molester, death. I'd go along with castration as long as it was done with a shotgun.

as far as not being able to take pictures thats just sad, wrong, on so many levels . do they have a "camera police" at the beach ? what about tourist ? I'd be challanging that one in court I think.
are "cherubs" considered child porn there as well ? What ever happened to common sense....

easy solutions to this problem

Step 1) Find the the child porn Sites. Shut them down and arrest the Webmasters

Step 2) Hack them and incorporate a little virus that acts as a GPS tracking program and attaches itself to OS and cannot be removed w/o a complete new install of the OS.

Step 3) Find the Tracking Programs and you've got your pedophiles (I realize this wont work w/ public access computers but its a start)



As for what to do with this scum ever herd of a place called GITMO or Abu Grab

Some guy in my home state took a pic of a boy at the ymca as he stepped out of the shower with his cell. He got caught and put away I guess the trial is next. Now all cell phones are banned in the ymca.

Yes 'no one'they have beach patrols on quad bikes in the main season.they are on the look out for anyone taking photos of any anybody else which they consider to be suspect,and of course crowd control.If you want your cell phone confiscated,just hold it up and point it at anyone and take a photo..You have to go to the Police Station and get your phone back after they have finished with it.It happened to some friends of my son at a prominent Sydney Beach.
Living some 50 klms from the beach,it was a nuisance to get the phones back.
While I'm on the subject, the Gov here have Banned some children's nursery rhyme books from Primary Schools and Child care centres,because in their mind,these childrens stories are sending the wrong message.
These are nursery rhyme books that have been around for up to 100 yrs,that you and I read and had our mothers read to us as a child.When is common sense going to prevail?

EDIT.I forgot to mention if the Character in the book is called 'Dick' as in 'Dick Whittington'its a no go.
Also if the story contains words like 'Nigger' 'Sambo' or the like.

im not trying to cross threads here, but DSTM, don't you see how everything is related. you say you have nothing to hide (RFID post) and have no way of stopping it all. but look at all this. CONTROL!! the more people know, the more people fear; the more people fear, the more control of their lives they are willing to give up. with increased surveilance comes increased control. if the police were not on the lookout for 'beach camera criminals', this would not be a sore point for beach goers.

it is all very sad. IMO i think it all goes back to the loss of common sense and the stripping of power and control over one's life by our leaders. it is no longer your choice, they decide what is best for you.

as for the children's books, WTF, this is the kind of crap i am talking about. these weak-minded idiots decide that they are not intelligent enough to teach their children, so no parent should have the opportunity. it is a sad turn of events. was this voted on in a referendum?

common sense will prevail when the majority takes back its place as decision maker and ceases to allow a select minority to make all of our decisions for us.

I stand by what I said,that I have nothing to hide and that I am powerless to stop this slide into dictatorship.
Unless there is a complete revolt which history tells us would most likely be bloody,I can only see things getting worse.I know it's all tied together and I only wish I knew the Governments true agenda.Not all the crap they feed us to keep the masses relatively quiet.I am well aware whats going on and seek as much information on the latest changes,which they force upon us.I am a Grandfather,and I will survive the time I have left.My real concern is for my children and my Grandchildren,the cursed life that lay ahead for them if things don't improve.This new trial on a cashless society just started here is a real worry.You have to read all my posts to see exactly where I stand on all these issues.

In answer to your Question,did we have a referendum,the answer is NO.The Gov and the Education Dept make any new laws they wish and we are not consulted.Only told of the changes.A stupid thing in my opinion which I forgot to mention,regarding childrens books,is the Education Dept has put a Picture Story Book in most Primary Schools,for the 4 to 7 yrs olds.Get this,it's a story about a little girl who lives in a Gay Household with 2 Daddy's instead of the norm.I have never heard of anything so stupid.

I haven't got the answers to everything,thats why I spend so much time on these Forums seeking every bit of information I can on various subjects.I am learning every day and give my opinion the same as everyone else.

i respect that very much. i don't ever mean to be condescending or righteous. and yes, the revolt will be bloody.

that just blows me away, that parents have no say as to what transpires in their children's education. what a crock political correctness has turned out to be. made everyone soft and afraid.

i don't have children yet, but my wife and i have decided that we will when the time is right. it is frightening, the state of the world and its future.
but if i ever caught a person exploiting my children, all of you would read another obituary a few months down the road. it takes a while to track their movement and look for an opening (know what i mean ). you have to protect kin.

I agree with what most have said. It is definately worth haveing that much resources on trying to find the people acessing this filth. I'm not very technically minded but Blackspyder seems to have explained things well.

The pictures on the beach can go both ways for me. To hear that they are at least on the look out for people taking photos of children, etc on beaches is a good thing. It shows that at least they are trying to protect us. But to ban cameras altogether seems abit extreme!

I totally agree how being arrested for having photos of your own children in the bath, etc is wrong! Its not as if they are sharing the pics, videos over the interweb. If that was the case then something could be up. (Although its embarrassing to admit) My parents have tapes of me in the bath as they are memories. I dont see it as wrong as its just a bath. Comon sense is definately needed.

As for the other things mentioned about the childrens stories, etc. We are having the exact problem here! Does anyone remember the nursery rhyme "Baa baa black sheep?" They are no longer singing that in schools now as it could be linked to negative views about black people!! Also, "humpty dumpty" is considered too traumatic!!!! What is this world coming too?!?!?

I believe the Authorities should go after the web sites that deal in this filth,and fine and Jail them so hard,other similar websites would close rather than risk the Penalties.

As far as cameras on beaches go.My parents still have photos of us on the beach when we were children.
I think there are two problems at present with the application and execution of the laws,here.The Security Guards have not enough training in how to tell the difference between a Father taking a photo of his family on the sand,and a Potential Predator following a young girl up the beach and taking shots at random without their knowledge.The Police and patrol Guards are overzealous in their job.It's the old saying,put a uniform on somebody and immediately they become mini Hitlers.The old days of leniency and cautions are long gone,IMO.

My Parents have many photos of us kids naked in the bath and around the house in summer.My Mother is so proud bringing them out and looking at them.Must admit I get a tad embarassed.

I think it totally over the top,when some jerk in some office somewhere,think they know better than the parents on how to raise our own children.All these laws seem "Overkill" to me,anyway.How could a 4 yr old comprehend Racial Discrimination.I thought Aust was the only country with these stupid laws regarding Nursery Rhyme Books,but evidently not.

Obviously you've never tried to buy Disney's "Song of the South", Brier Rabbit and the Tar Baby, Black Sambo, or anything that was based on the oral tales from the African culture here in america its almost impossible

Seems you want to protect people's constitutional right to protect their privacy but also favour vigilante action by the community without a fair trail?

in no way did i imply violence on behalf of the community. people choose what services to seek out, as well as what services they will provide to individuals. too often people determine that their only options are violence or aquiessence. this is not the case. there are legal and humane ways to get across the idea that a person is no longer welcome in a community.

There is no room in a healthy society for these Sickos (Paedophiles).
One can only hope when they are found guilty,that the Punishment fits the Crime,
and they don't escape with a slap on the wrist,because they can afford Top Lawyers.
Here the Police are frustated,because of all their efforts to catch these Criminals,
and the Court System mostly lets them off with a Fine or a Good Behavior Bond.
These International Investigations take Months and cost Millions of Tax Payers Dollars.
If a Peadophile is proved to be a habitual Offender, then I'm in favour of Castration.
Not only for our Childrens Proctection,but also to remove the Offenders urge,once and for all.

Agreed. I find it a sad day indeed when the A.C.L.U. here in the States has decided to represent N.A.M.B.L.A. which is a group that advocates the legalization of pedophilia.

With a dull knife....

i was not aware of that. wow! how hypocritic, a group championing human rights is willing to support those who trounce all over the rights of children.




or with a rubber band so that they may anguish over their decisions and realize the true consequences of their actions.

Theres stuff thats reeeeaaally doing my head in about this one!

Paedofilia is an absolutely AWFUL aspect of society, but i cant find myself agreeing with the "kill the paedofiles/lock em away forever/castrate them attitude".

This has nothing to do with my attitude towards human rights so please dont confuse what i am saying with the people/organisation that was spoken of earlier.

I just can't help thinking, there is no proven evidence that people are born paedofiles, something happens within their lifetime that makes them turn out that way. I dont want to go into another moyd about its relation to society and education cause we've discussed that to death and its generally agreed that there are various problems.

My point is, i wonder what made them like that, and perhaps if we knew/could find a consistency or commonality, we could prevent other children from growing up to become these BEASTS!

I am not saying that they are all "poor lost little bunnies" or anything, and i do agree that there are some that just go tooo far perhaps for any sort of attention other than punishment. I just feel that a true prevention from this sort of thing happening would be to stop people from becoming this way in the first place...anyone got a magic wand?

Its really strange for a human being to get stuck in a frame of thought where they obsess over something that makes nearlly the whole of society want them to be brutally killed or tortured. People who obsess over other things recieve psychological help that can be successfull, could this not apply to people that obsess over things that we find horrifying aswell? Or does the fact that we are horrified cause us to discriminate? Uh oh, i didnt mean to go there (discrimination and human rights blah blah), i'm just speaking my thoughts as they come.

Coming back to the topic, the only comment i can make is that its the age old argument "greater good for all" vs "greater good for the individual" which the middle ground is constantly fluctuating from situation to situation.

I also find it strange reading about the strictness with cameras on beaches and what not when here in britain (duno about other countries) theres a whole line of baby nappy ads that jokingly show children dubbed with adult voices flirting with each other walking around semi naked with their mummies high heels. Or images even of the mum kissing the babies bottom. To us this is cute, but is this not slightly pornongraphic or heading that way?/ I wonder if this is something that would serve as a stimulation for paedofiles...a bit like an alcoholic walking past a pub?

Interesting topic, i am a little worried, cause i think some of my quieries go against the grain a little, but they are mostly quieries which i am unable to resolve and not set in stone and i apologies if they offend anybody.

NICE ONE nn23

Let me put my 2 cents here... I was so fortunate to travel the globe a few times, mostly for biz but I managed to see a few places. I went from Chile to Bangkok to Hong Kong to China Philipines"Africa the whole "nineyards. The preditors as described in this topic have a field day in cities like Bangkok Manilla, where litterly children are offered on the streets to any "righteye"(meaning European) for petty cash.

When I was waiting outside a restaurant (in Bangkok) I witnessed two German "grand-dads " closing a deal with a Thai who offered them 2 girls (max 9year old) ( which he was holding to his arm) to play with. I got so mad, I immediately went there, made pictures of the two elderly men told them I would send it the biggest German Newspaper ( Bildzeitung). I called two policemen asked them to arrest the "Thai Guy " for child abuse ( yes it is punishable by enprisonment overthere) and got into a rumble with the elderly men.

I was taken to the police station, where luckily my Thai counterpart, who had witnessed the whole shahalla, could get me out..

I would still do it. For me child abuse is the same is murder ( not physicaly but mentally) and therefore should be punished as such...

(In view of the family friendly character I left out the words I wanted to say....)

FOZZIE you did the right thing and what about the pics did you send them to the paper i would

Yes, I agree completely with currmac, you did a wonderful thing, fozzie!!! Huge, huge happy smile!

I know that some members don't agree with the (Quote) "kill the paedofiles/lock em away forever/castrate them attitude" (Unquote).

But in reality, for myself at least, the 'why' they do it takes a back seat to the fact that they have done it and there is a very high chance they will be repeaters, when released from prison.

Years ago, was there not a mother who shot her child's offender, right in the Court room? I could sympathise with her completely and while I may not take it quite that far myself, I honestly can't know the anguish and pure hell these monsters leave in their wake.

Yeah, i completely agree with all you lot have to say fozzie Currmac and MaraM and fairplay fozzie for your response to the situation.

In my comment i was merely trying to gain an incite without the emotional influence upon my judgments to add a different angle on the matter.

And i still feel some aspects of my points are relavent in the whole "solutions" fore front.

In answer to the stop check side to the actual point of discussion, in this particular topic, it might be annoying but perhaps better to be safe than sorry??? (safe rather than sorry vs relax the checks)
With my quirey about the adverts issue in relation to the whole making checks more strict...why not make adverts more strict too? hyperthetically speaking, they are related.

It seems that the answer to my question "Does the fact that we are horrifyed cause us to discriminate?" is probably yes, it does! But i suppose this discrimination allows us to make appropriate choices like fozzie's in response. i think fozzies judgments and actions were very admirable and correct and completely appropriate and justified!

NICE ONE!! nn23

I handed them over to the police, who apparently gave them to the gewrman Embassy

Yes that was in Germany.. Eventhough the woman was commended she got 2 years enprisonement.

Actually here in Holland there was a person who took his films to the shop to have them developped, it appeared to be child prun from the Philipines. That person got busted and was expedited to the Philipines.....

Re: "Actually here in Holland there was a person who took his films to the shop to have them developped, it appeared to be child porn from the Philipines. That person got busted and was expedited to the Philipines.....".

Not being smart enough to develop one's own film - and stupid enough to take child porn to a public film developer - makes it easier for sickies to be caught - yipee!

Out of curiousity, is there a 'overlord' to complain to when sudden surprises spring up on the computer when browsing?

It's very rare, I know, but when browsing seemingly innocent sites such as knitting/woolen stores - with a young grandchild sitting on my knee - a link opened with full screen highly disgusting image on it. (And I'm no prude but oh my dod!!). Instantly used Ctrl/Alt/Delete to get page closed and then ran all anti-virus/bug/cookie programs but still!

Hope this isn't too far off topic, but if I can accidently hit these sites - with as many 'safety filters' set up as possible - imagine what must be out there awaiting children. Filter away!

"Not being smart enough to develop one's own film - and stupid enough to take child porn to a public film developer - makes it easier for sickies to be caught - yipee!"

If I remember correctly, the staff at the centers where pictures are developed are required by law to turn in any information regarding any illegal activities, or anything that maybe borderline.

I don't think trying to block the sites will do much good, there's so many and it doesn't even stop them either. They'll just move their site. What needs to be done is cracking down on the people who own these sites. Also, is animated child porn illegal, because from what I understand it's extremely easy to access.

What to be done about the people who own the sites with child porn, I don't know. Maybe drop them off in a desert 100 miles from anywhere and let them fend for themselves. As for the people looking at it, it's not like they actually *caused* the child porn, they're just taking advantage of it already being there to satisfy their sick minds. But it's extremely doubtful they will stop, and putting them in jail gives them free meals and accomadations. Granted if the "lookers" didn't "look", then the "creators" wouldn't "create" the child porn, it's still not as bad, in my opinion, as taking the photos yourself. Still don't know what do with the mere "lookers" though.

I've got to disagree with you there Solaris32. If there was no demand for child porn, there would not be people supplying it. Basic economics, no demand no people making the item to supply to the market (illegal or other wise). I am not condoning child porn (as a father I find the idea nauseating). I'm just pointing out that yes, the people that look at child porn do in fact cause the child porn to be made.


Seafox14

Seafox that is the point he made...

I agree with you'Seafox14' It is a matter of Supply to fill the Demand. I find the whole Child Porn Industry Sickening.
Can understand Adults watching X rated Adult Movies,if they desire to.I may be out on a limb here,but if somebody watches Child Porn or Pictures often,I think they are Sick in Brain.I also think there is a chance they themselves may become Pedophiles.Thats my opinion,anyway.
We have dozens of Pedophiles in our Jails,and one Pedophile here has been caught with 75000 images on his PC's,sending them over the Internet.They should Lock them all up and throw away the Key.IMO.To me it's the Slaughter of Innocence.

DSTM, I know you don't agree with me on a lot of things.

But you stated that well, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Re: "It is a matter of Supply to fill the Demand", DSTM and others ...

While horribly simplistic, I think of the suppliers as being non-existent if the 'demand' wasn't there. (Same as robbery, etc. To buy a stolen item is just as morally wrong and illegal as it is to steal in the first place).

As as you said, child porn is "The slaughter of innocence". Perhaps laws will change and give each and every person caught buying this horrible stuff the same still prison sentences that the suppliers should be getting. And if it's a parent 'selling' or using their children for porn - well, I can't quite think of a punishment dire enough.

I still don't think looking at child porn is as bad as creating it. Many people look at unique forms of porn to see things they would never normally see. Looking at child porn doesn't mean they would become a pedaphile. Naturally, I think looking at child porn is wrong, I would still give them a second chance to right their wrongs and look at something else.

Now for the people who actually make this child porn, it is a much more serious offense and doesn't deserve much of a second chance, if at all.

Just as with the "war on drugs", focusing on the end-user is stupidity to the nth degree. My opinion of what's happening in the child pornography internet world:

* probably 95+% of child porn web sites are FBI, Customs, or other government agency sting sites

* go after the relatively small number of people producing and distributing the stuff, as opposed to the much larger number of people looking at it....duh

* there ARE a certain percentage of "lookie-lews" out there....people who's curiosity gets the better of them....if a few dozen web sites suddenly popped up, all claiming to have incontrovertible evidence (i.e., pictures) for the existence of Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Ghosts, UFO's, God, etc., who wouldn't be curious....many people would just have to take that one look to see if it's real....unfortunately, some people who just couldn't quite believe that something like child pornography not only existed, but was readily available, and just had to see for themselves, are now either in prison, or have been forced to register as a sex offender, even though they'd never touched, let alone harmed, a child in their entire life...

* the stuff is bad, and it is wrong

* the government's ability to snoop on your internet activity is no less wrong....without your knowledge or consent, the government can, without trifling with such inconveniences as warrants, install key loggers, dialers, or any type of spyware on your PC....

* forcing the government to remove child porn sting sites from the internet would cut the number of such sites in half, at least, not to mention eliminating one source of artificial demand

We all saw what happened when drugs were made illegal, and/or regulated by the government...it created not only artificial demand, but artificially high prices that spawn most of the violence we see in this country....think about it; if drugs were legalized tomorrow, how many people do YOU know, who would start using? I'm NOT advocating the legalization of child porn; all I'm saying is go after the people who are creating the demand, or market, if you will, and reduce the bloat of government-run sting sites, and a large portion of the stuff will dry up.

Its really sad to hear that child pornography exist and is still out there with children not knowing what is going on and being forced into it. It is rather more hurting to know that people actually still go for this kind of services. This world is corrupted already. i have nothing more to say.