Just as a preface, I think that this discussion should be only between those who practice a religion that calls the Holy Bible its holy book, but I guess that Catholics are OK, too.

1) Do you think that committing suicide sends you strait to hell?
2) If yes or no, do you have any biblical proof of scripture from the Bible to back it up?

I am split with many in my religion. Being a protestant, I believe in the concept of being saved, and that once God has accepted you, you have salvation forever, and that suicide cannot change this. However, some others who claim the same religion as me, see it as committing suicide will send you strait to hell, because you can't be forgiven since you are already dead. I do not agree with their reasoning, because this would mean that if you did not pray right before you died, there is a good chance that you would have sinned before you died, therefore cannot ask for forgiveness, and therefore go to Hell.

What do you think?

Q

1st of, I am Catholic (you may want to stop here!)

These are only my thoughts.

I believe in a forgiving God that will give us every chance to be with Him in heaven. He gives us opportunities and sends people to help us make the right choices. But we are all flawed.

Many people die of horrible physical disease...and God permits this to happen. If we have a mental disease, we may not have a choice or be capable of making the right choice.

God makes the rules...only He knows what is in a person's heart.

God's Peace to All,

b_d

The last time I noticed, Roman Catholics took the Bible as their "holy book."

What would count as " biblical proof of scripture from the Bible?" and WHICH Bible counts? WHOSE interpretation of the text?

Regards,
John

"Just as a preface, I think that this discussion should be only between those who practice a religion that calls the Holy Bible its holy book, but I guess that Catholics are OK, too". Eep!!

Re: God makes the rules...only He knows what is in a person's heart. - beautifully said, brain_dead!

(Won't post in this topic again in respect for ryan's request, but if more Christians had this gentle, tolerant belief, I suspect there would be more people believing in Christianity).

er, I don't believe in ANY bible? Can I post? Dude, you claim to follow your bible and yet you do not love me enough to allow me to post here? Are you serious?

Suicide will not send you straight to hell. I don't think anyone that does not have an "excusable" medical condition would ever think of suicide. So there, would your god discriminate against the mentally ill?

IMHO

I have read the Bible ( both NIV and NLT translations). I have found no specific prohibitions against suicide. the teaching in the church against suicide is a man made teaching that has some scriptural basis. the bible does, in many, places tell us not to give in to despair. suicide is the complete surrendering to despair that results in a person taking their life. It is not specifically against scripture (at least from my understanding of it) to commit suicide. However, if a person has put their faith and trust in Jesus ( i.e. that are a christian), then God's Holy Spirit can help them through this despair until it is gone.


Seafox14

We are already in the Hell, because Hell is here on our Planet.
Think about Darfur, Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq and many other places where is almost impossible to live.
I think the Hell is definitively here.

Interestingly enough, Darthy, you aren't alone in your thinking. Many people honestly feel that there is no hell after life, rather 'Heaven' and 'Hell' exist right here on earth.

I know I said I wasn't going to post here because Ryan specifically asked only Christians post in this thread, but do hope he will understand when I say that surely there must be good Christians who think 'My God, why have you forsaken me?!' when things become truly an ongoing nightmare right here on earth, as Darthy mentioned. Gentle sad sigh.

Ryan, I hope so much you will forgive me for even broaching this, but if it's a friend of yours that is discussing these questions with you and seeking answers, please keep a 'head's up' lest your friend is truly in despair and wondering for more than an academic reason. Sadly, not all people considering suicide are able to call out for help in obvious ways, perhaps.

It is my belief (and not my original thought) that the Old Testament shows God to be, intolerant, revengeful, and distant.
While after Christ...He is forgiving and tolerant. God becoming man and giving Himself for us has made the difference.
Well-meaning Christians who site the Old Bible (which I believe still has great value) in condemnation, have not considered the Eternal Word of the New Testament.

Please understand-I am not a holy person or a person of great prayer...I go to Mass and follow my faith and learn from it.
I believe not to follow and not to hand-down to my children my beliefs-is ignoring the sacrifice that was made for me some 2000 years ago.

Humility is the ultimate teaching of Christ...forgotten by many.

Thanks,
Alan

Suicide is man's way of telling God, "You can't fire me--I quit!"
- Bill Maher

Though the reasons given for suicide are many and various, underlying them all is a deep and profound despair in which all hope - at least in this life - is lost.

I have been torn in my mind for several weeks about posting this next part, but I have finally decided to.

No, emphatically no, one does not automatically 'go straight to hell' if one commits suicide. I know this having been told by a loving, caring, strong presence that I had to go back - here to this life - after one of my countless suicide attempts (I wanted to go home.) in my youth (as in 10-16 years old). No, no-one knew about that mess while it was going on.

By the way, brain_dead, there is a lot of forgiveness in the Old Testament.

Orange Blossom

I admire your courage, Orange Blossom - gentle hug.

How odd in our society where sex and drugs and cruelty are often spoke of, it's so rare that suicide or death is even mentioned. Again, I admire your courage and I'm so incredibly happy that the attempts were unsuccessful, truly I am! More gentle hugs!

i just wanted to say that i don't believe people who commit suicide go to hell. i don't believe in hell. we all contribute to our own deaths everyday, how can one action be considered more important than the other?

Orange Blossom, what you wrote takes true humility and humanity, and i thank you for your candor. i too am pleased that you succeeded in life rather than death.

Those who are not religious would have no need to post anyways since its about religion and suicide so what would someone post if they had no religion?

So he was not being mean he just wanted to know from someone who has a religion and what they think.

Here's a great site that covers the topic pretty well in my opinion.

Carm.org on suicide

It even talks about the different "types" of suicide.

i read that site Cozy. very informative from that individuals point of view. for me it raised many other theological questions.

the author made some interesting statements. i think too often, those who follow a religion closely lose a certain level of empathy. what purpose does it serve to continue living in excruciating pain? it is funny, is it not, that often within this belief system (Christianity) the Hand of God and free will are so easily interchangeable. God does not make one do bad deeds, that is free will. but God's hand keeps us alive and decides when we are allowed to die. free will to end one's suffering is perceived as sinning, but free will to torture oneself is perceived as righteous.

I have read a fair amount of the bible and have found no mention of hell. Is hell an invention like 'Original Sin'?

As for suicide I suppose it could count as 'murdering' yourself. If so this would break the most important of the ten commandments, though most of the commandments I see as aims rather than hard and fast rules.

I have personally attempted suicide on several occasions, the last time being ten years ago.

I find this link useful when depressed:- http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

lol, who dug up this fossil?




wow, you really suck at killing yourself

What a bleeping a-hole.

theres a rule here about no name calling

Just so, shame you didn't follow the rules either. Your post was blatant flaming, and provoked my reaction.

actually, i made quite an obvious observation. i merely commented on what you had already said about yourself

have a nice day

General Comment and warning.

There is no reason that discussing an issue cannot be conducted in a civilised, courteous manner. I should not have to quote Forum Rules, but it seems fitting that I now do so, given the turn this thread is taking:

"There will be no posts meant to offend or hurt any other member, in a manner which is offensive or inflammatory. This includes flaming or instigating arguments."

Try to remember that an on-line community has certain standards of behaviour; as responsible Members of it, following those standards strengthens that sense of community. Obviously, sarcasm aimed at other Members or potential readers destroys the good will which is the basis of any on-line community, and it will, moreover, will prevent your ideas or opinions from receiving a fair hearing.

John
Global Moderator

each of us is a Child of God; sometimes we have an INTENSE struggle WITH life and what it throws at us ; that struggle may just throw us over the brink

the opening 'argument' on this thread tends to forget that once you are dead (physically) to THIS world you are still alive in another world and with God;whether you know it or not or beleive it or not God is all loving and all forgiving ; God will forgive and you can have a chat with Him about what went wrong when you meet Him ; please do NOT forget that Dad knows ALL your thoughts and feelings

also I have NO problems calling God 'dad' as that is who he is .........Dad

and I guess that Dad is reading this with me too

as to quoting Chaper and verse from the Holy Bible? apart from the Creation stories I do not go in for 'quoting competitions' to make my point

as far as I know the only difference at the end of this life for a person who does commit suicide is that their body cannot be buried in Consecrated Ground

haha, lol, ive never seen a longer list of jabber and mythology in my life!!! you know, i'll take that back if you can back any of what you said about god up with facts. and please, i wont accept the bible.

and wow, i cant believe other christians admit catholics into their faith. seriously, that last part about "for a person who does commit suicide is that their body cannot be buried in consecrated ground" that is a 100% catholic belief everyone!!!!! i do not want others outside the faith to think that all christians behave as ignorantly and stupidly as the catholics. for every thing in the world, they come up with "consecrated this, consecrated that", yet there is no place for it in the bible. and while we're at it, there is no place for the pope either. how ignorant are people that they will trust their "everlasting life" to the pope. i mean, are you kidding me?????? you will just listen to whatever that old, decrepid, member of the hitler youth will tell you???? give me a break!!! and can anyone with a brain be so willinly ignorant? above all my questions, that is waht i desire an answer to the most.

The Catholic Church chose which writings should make up the Christian Bible at the Synod of Hippo in 393 AD (or maybe the Council of Carthage in 397 AD). They decided to leave out works such as the Epistle of Barnabas, the Gospel of Thomas and the Epistle to the Laodiceans. Most Protestant churches modified the Bible somewhat by replacing the Greek Septuagint with the Jewish canon at the time of the Reformation (hence the Deuterocanonical Books/Apocrypha). Martin Luther felt uneasy about Epistle of Jude, the Epistle of James, the Epistle to the Hebrews and the Book of Revelation, but in the end decided to leave them in (this is why these books appear at the end of some German Bibles).

The way I see it, there is little difference between putting your trust in the Catholic Church (which is run by men), and putting your trust in their Bible (which was written by men).