Ahh yes, consideration on both sides would be lovely.

We entered a lovely restaurant and the hostess asked if we preferred the smoking room or non-smoking room - and we took the smoking one.

A few minutes later, a couple entered with their 3 children and when asked the same question, they also requested the smoking room.

Within moments of sitting down, the man started being dreadfully abusive (verbally) towards anyone smoking - saying how bad it was for his children, etc - and was truly a rude jerk! Both the waiter and the hostess came over immediately to see if perhaps there had been a misunderstanding about where they preferred to be seated - but no, there wanted to be in the smoking area. Obviously to berate everyone else around them - yet at the same time subject his young children to second-hand smoke.

The hostess left in tears - the manager was apologising to all the smokers and offering free desserts - and the idiot and his wife got their wish, no one enjoyed their dinner.

Darn near made me want to light up and puff some smoke straight into his ear - suspect it would have reached his brain instantly!!

That is a good point.
My wife and i are both smokers, but we have friends that are not..... we would never dream of smoking in their homes (although we have never been asked not to) and if they come to our home..... we don't smoke as much.
My work takes me into a lot of homes, so i never smoke while i'm working.
Like you say there are considerate and inconsiderate smokers.

Whenever I have a cigarette I always make sure I am downwind from my friends so I don't blow smoke into thier faces. I would never even dream of asking if I could smoke in someone else's house.

As for smoking in bars and restaurants I believe that it should be up to the ownership of an establishment whether or not smoking is allowed. If an owner of a bar thinks he will get more patrons by appealing to a non smoking or smoking environment then that is his call, not the government's. I don't know why the government wouldn't want establishments all over the place that supported drinking and smoking, more tax money for them!

If a worker is subjected to "second hand smoke" at their work should they not have known beforehand about walking into a smoking environment? If you don't want to be in a smoking environment, either don't take the job in the first place or quit. There should be no excuse for someone in current times aware of the "dangers" of second hand smoke to take a job in a smoking environment and then complain about it. I know the above does not apply to the times when people were uninformed of the "dangers" of second hand smoke.

I know where non smokers are coming from, cigarettes do have a distinct smell and one of the things I hate is when I go out and am not smoking but still come home reeking of cigarettes. Its funny how I don't notice all of the smoke when I am at the bar...

Since this issue has been discussed metaphorically this whole thread, why stop here! I think a good way of looking at smoking is like looking at people who like different kinds of music. People who listen to heavy metal do not go to the same establishments to listen to their music as people who are fans of jazz. The people who listen to heavy metal will go to a place where the owner supports heavy metal and the people who are fans of jazz will go to the bar that supports jazz. People will go to a jazz bar expecting jazz and people will go to a metal bar expecting metal.

This makes perfect sense in musical terms and you can also see it in different social conditions all over our society, why should it not work for smokers and non smokers?

As for why do people smoke, NICOTINE!!!!! Nicotine is not unlike any other drug and causes you to feel great and this is the appeal of smoking. Why do people drink coffee? To get the caffine rush that they are addicted to. I love the feeling that nicotine and caffine have on me and that is why I will smoke a cigarette or drink a coffee, it just makes the day better.

This smoking issue will never be solved unless someone on one side takes a hard stance and just puts an end to the other side of the argument, which won't happen in our happy democratic society!

I see and completely understand the opinions of people against smoking inside of bars and restaurants, but how can the people who are against smoking not take into consideration the opinions of smokers? Why is every single establishment forced to shun smokers?

What is great about life is you can make your own decisions, do what you want to do, then why do I not have the choice of going to a smoking or non-smoking establishment?

Come to think of it, this debate reminds me a bit of 'Prohibition'.

Now that government has blocked owners from making their own decisions about whether their establishments will be smoking or non-smoking and regulations are in place that one can't do it on own's own balcony and next apparently is the public parks ...

Perhaps after that will be a complete ban on smoking, just like the ban during Prohibition - and look where that got us! Eek! Crime escalated and I don't doubt for a moment that it would happen again should a law against smoking come into effect.

A little thing to ponder ... if our government feels it's so dangerous to smoke, it's odd that that 'stop smoking' programs and medical products aren't covered by our medical plan here - yet treatment for alcholics is.

Just a wee personal note to Yano and your question, (quote) "I find it ironic that smokers tell young ones not to smoke, yet they demand their right to smoke around them and adult non-smokers?" (Unquote)

Smoking around children doesn't 'make' them smoke, anymore than having a drink around a child will turn them into 'drinkers' or being around an abusive parents necessary 'turns' them into abusers themselves.

For instance, my parents didn't smoke - I do - none of our kids smoke - and I suspect other smokers aren't demanding the right to smoke around kids or non-smoking adults. For me, at least, it's a matter of owners of establishments having the right to decide if people can drink/smoke in a business they own - and the right for smokers to smoke in the middle of a public park, etc.

Don't think any smoker seriously believes they have a 'right' to smoke in the same room as children - and as for adults, if an establishment is clearly a 'smoking one', I'm with the others that have expressed the same opinion, non-smoking have the right to not enter.

Heres my take.

I smoke i have the right to do it. If non smokers get a whole resturant/bar so should I get one too. No but I should have the right to eat there and act as I normally do. The perservitives and chemicals in the foods and the beers are probly worse then the smokes.

Im curious...

Why did you start smoking and why do you continue to?

Knowing how it kills your lungs and gives wrinkles why continue?

1. Stupidity

2. Nicotine is highly addictive.

American Heart Association:



Any more questions?

Got to die some time might as well be on my terms. At least I know whats killing me.

People look at smokers and see them like crack addicts. non-smokers think for the most part that all smokers go through more than a pack a day. I go through a pack or 2 a month. All depends on if I get coffee (no good w/o a smoke)(rarity), if I get stressed real bad(ever week) or if for some reason I decide I want one.

Of course I go through a can of Dip every other day so I dont need the nicotine.

Not only is it highly addictive, apparently for many it's "more addictive" than heroin. (If I could go back to being 15 again I'd kick myself for lighting up the first time).

Can only speak for myself but I've tried smoking patches (even doubled them up!), the pills and hypnosis ... and have come to the conclusion that although I'm not addicted to anything else, cigarette smoking is my 'bane'. Luckily I, oddly enough, enough smoking - and also come from a family that seems to live nigh on forever, smokers or not.

But just to 'cover the basis', always was deadly honest with the kids about how addictive it can be and also showed them horribly graphic photos of diseased lungs caused by smoking when each hit Grade 3. Not a smoker in the lot.

Mind you, in defense of myself and other smokers - still think those that pop into the neighbourhood pub for a drink or two or three are far more deadly to those around them (unless they walk home) than being exposed to second-hand smoke is. Because no matter how bad it is (and I'm not saying it's good), if it was truly as bad as most anti-smokers claim nearly every kid raised in the 1940s through the 1970s would be dead or dying from lung disease.

With you 100% Black Spyder!

I have been smoking alot recently because of work but when I am at home I don't smoke much, and on the weekends its cut down significantly.

A coffee and a cigarette is probably the best combination of anything you can consume, sheer brilliance.

I dip quite a bit as well, but not so much anymore, its more of a hockey thing now.

^^ Climbs up on soap box ^^

I don't see how anyone could still smoke nowadays?! Despite all the warnings, some continue for some reason!
My friend's father is having his leg amputated for complications with diabetes and smoking.

I know some people are addicted, but many are not and are just living by the spur of the moment or something. I'm not sure.

I don't think smoking should be allowed in any public place. When you smoke.. you get a filter.. but no one else does. It peeves me to see someone who lights up a cigarette on the street and someone else has to walk through the cloud with their children.

There are always those who say, "my grandpa and my dad smoked their wholes lives and lived to be a hundred" or whatever... but if you stop and look at the good versus the bad about smoking... bad wins every time... it's even joked about by a lot of smokers... but they can't deny the millions who have died from smoking or getting second hand smoke.. they can't deny the diseases which are related.. the gravely voice... the OXYGEN TUBES!

Somehow it is still perceived to be "cool". Ludicrous. Ridiculous. Asinine. Just plain silly. If I see a sign that says, "shark inhabited waters".. yer *@#@#% right I won't be swimming in it

^^ climbs off of soap box ^^


On the other hand... there are tons of things which non-smokers do that are just as bad that they don't want to give up... Soda is TERRIBLE for you.. and yet everyone still drinks it of course... that's just an example.. the point is... there is a lot of stuff that's bad for you out there.. chances are you won't try to avoid all of them... so non-smokers and smokers alike all have their little "goodies" that aren't so good... as long as you aren't forcing your habit onto someone else... "such as public smoking"

Lol smoking disgusts me so much...like if someones smoking at a community center i swaear i leave i just cnat stand it...and i used to be a soda addict...i just got unhooked (no i aint fat)

Yeah smoking is stupid....Its not cool and never was.

Good point Mara!
I mean 'comon back in the day smoking was allowed everywhere!

Question: Why is ok for a business to be smoke free. But against city ordinances
for a business to be "smoking only"???

I'm one of the ones that argue against people smoking where and when THEY want to regardless of other around them, and i really don't see the logic in what Scarlett posted. I'm not saying that what SHE'S saying doesn't make sense, i'm talking about the "smoking only" places.

If businesses ARE allowed to say "you can't smoke here", they should have the right to say "if you come in, you'd better not b**ch about the smoke in here". That way, business owners are able to cater to smokers if they wish, while clearly advertising that people that hate smoke to stay away.

It is against city ordinances because they know how gawd awful unhealthy that would be. Yer lucky someone is lookin out for you. The bartenders would be the first to get sick, being in there every night. You might as well just climb into a gigantic cigarrette and light it on fire. You wouldn't even have to light up a cig yourself.. just walk in and breathe for pete's sake... filter? what? what filter?

It should be evidence enough that the majority of doctors in the world don't smoke. And if they do, they know how bad it is and just don't give a crap for some reason. (they're not the brightest doctors)

Does smoking really give anyone that big of a "high" that they'd want to keep doing it? I tried it a few times and was disgusted at the taste it left in my mouth. It's absolutely terrible for your teeth too... awesome... can I have another please? NO THANKS!

Do realize all the reasons a person shouldn't smoke - but still find it difficult to understand how a government can legislate certain things.

If a person decides to take their 1/2 million dollars (or whatever amount) and open a cafe, for instance ...
And decide prior to even applying for a business licence that they are going to allow smoking inside their establishment.

If a person chose to open a business - for instance, a cafe - and decided they wanted to allow smoking within their own establishment and put up their own investment money of 1/2 million dollars (or whatever amount) ...
and when advertising for staff, ensured each was aware that smoking was going to be allowed (which gives a non-smoking person to right to not work there) ... and when opened, put huge signs in front saying smoking is permitted inside this establishment (which would give non-smokers the right to not enter if they chose) - then perhaps this would still maintain the freedom that our ancestors fought so hard for.

If enough people didn't smoke, the business would go poof! But at least individual freedom would still be there, for someone to choose. Sort of like those that disapprove of alcohol - they can choose to not enter a Bar, etc .

Slightly 'off track' here - but our government here in Canada, while I'm sure they mean well, must honestly think kids/teenagers are stupid. The cigarette packs contain various images (rotten teeth, 'limp cigarette', depicting 'you know what', etc. Kids may be younger and less experienced but are no less intelligent than adults - and they look around them and see their parents and grandparents that smoked (and still may) with lovely white teeth and obviously no problems creating children.

Perhaps if the governments are truly serious about kids not starting to smoke, a more realistic solution could be found. For example, I bet there are lots of heavy smokers that have developed emphysema who would be glad to show children in elementary schools what can really happen if one smokes. Anyway, just a thought.

@ Mara Right on!



Thank you and God Bless America!
Land of the Free?
PC not for me!

Smoking really is a dirty, filthy, rotten, stinking, expensive habit and can't be justified on any scientific or health grounds.

I should know, been doing it for nearly 50 years.

Here in New Zealand, public attitudes have changed totally in a strangely short space of time. Not long ago, smoking was everywhere and basically accepted by most. When legislation was passed banning it in pubs and public places, it was generally expected that a lot of pubs would close but this has not happened. Smokers congregate outside the front or back doors enjoying a puff, and then go back inside to join their non-smoking mates - it is just the accepted thing now.

I completely agree that those who choose not to smoke, should not be subject to the disagreeable aspects of those of us who do.

It is easy to give up smoking, personally I have done it 1000's of times.

Cheers

THERE'S the logic most smokers seem to need.... As i've said before, if people should have the freedom to smoke around those that UNWILLINGLY breathe in the 2nd hand, then why don't people have the freedom to yell whenever and wherever they want, regardless of who has to listen to them?

Actually I'm glad most places do NOT allow smoking.

Would you want to be shopping for clothes in JCPenny's, Sears, and Target, have someone smoking next to you? Why do you think most of these establishments ban it? Even the employees that smoke have to go outside. What is wrong with this? Nothing. These establishments are well respected and what to protect there customers. If Sears allowed there smoking do you think there policy would still be "Customers for Life?"

Now back to the restaurants and pubs. I've only been in a pub once, when I was at a little restaurant here in my home town. Could the previous smoking policy would so easily in restaurants? No. However, if we employ it into restaurants and pubs you would actually be increasing the moral and the over all satisfaction of the customers and visitors.

When I’m around my mom or dad and they are smoking, I feel like crap. I feel like I’m being trapped and I can’t escape it. Like it is forced torture that I don’t deserve. I’ve tried convincing them to quit, however, they always give the argument, “It is easier said, than done.” “If I could, I would.” I do have to congratulate my dad for at least trying to quit. However, my mom hasn’t quit, she has reduced her intake, mostly for the monetary reasons.

Also when I’m around people who don’t smoke, or once I get away from smoke I get the feeling that I can do anything and that I am stronger than they are. Ever since I could rationalize, I have promised myself that I will never allow myself, my girlfriend, or my kids (someday), to smoke. I like to think of it as preventive maintenance.

In conclusion, I don’t think it should be regulated by the government, I think it should be a standard policy all businesses participate in.

Go for it. Guaranteed to be the worst business ever. Catering to smokers only isn't a very bright business move. :D People are waking up to reality and quitting. I don't think a business owner would see any financial benefit from doing it.. and business owners are driven by money... so why would they ever do it? It should be a moot point. If all the smokers want to get together and smoke.. it is simple enough to go to another smoker's house to have drinks and smokes. That's probly against city ordinances also, and the neighbors would absolutely hate you.. but they probly wouldn't call ATF on you either.

I think it would be very interesting to open just such a business and monitor the health of smokers BEFORE they were regulars, and AFTER. It would be a disgusting transformation. And that would be the smelliest bloody business in town.

It is against city ordinances to open up a stabbing bar where everyone gets together and just stabs each other with very large knives too. Once again, yer lucky someone is looking out for you. :D

If smokers could keep their smoke to themselves.. everything would be just fine. Those that wanted death by smoke could do so... those that didn't.. wouldn't! Aside from that, there are people that care about each and every smoker. If you think about it, smokers are hurting them too.

By the way, do you use cigs that don't have filters? Nah, nobody but a 300 pound leader of a biker gang with sleeved tattoos and a lust for death would do that.. that's too much smoke and filth. Almost like in a business with smokers only.. hahahah... I'm not poking fun really.. I'm just flabbergasted by this. I've never understood the logic of it all. I wouldn't even buy a car that was perviously owned by a smoker... stinky yellow upholstery isn't on my list of desired features.

Thanks Michelle.

I really couldn't care less about the price of cigarettes, or if people smoke. They can do whatever they want, or price however they want. I just don't want to have to deal with breathing in that crap while trying to eat or enjoy myself somewhere outside of my property.

I'm not against people smoking, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else around them.

none of that matters if people were wise enough to avoid smoking altogether.

All for the greater good, right?

Business' that are forced to instill anti smoking policies by the government are losing thier
private property rights.
How long will it take till there are no more private property or business rights?

Individuals being told when and where they can smoke are losing thier personal freedoms and rights.

Beware our personal freedoms are being taken away one at a time.


politicaly correct = reverse discrimination






The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

United States of America or the Republic of America?

Someones knocking on our door.
Oh it's "Big Brother"!
Why don't you welcome him with open arms...

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
- C.S. Lewis. "

Scarlett, where's the line that divides personal freedom and just law? For example, should a bar be able to serve alcohol to 12 year olds...based on the fact that the establishment is a privately owned business?

I guess I just don't see where you draw the line.

I suppose with bar, perhaps anti-smoking laws are sort of an overkill. But what about, say, grocery stores? On one hand, yes they are private establishments...but on the other hand, everyone has to buy food, right? Shouldn't we be able to buy food without breathing carcinogens?

Individuals in public who DON'T smoke are GAINING the freedom to walk around without THEIR personal freedom being clogged up by someone's stray chemical cloud. You wouldn't buy a house right next to a pig farm would you? Of course not.. that's why they don't build pig farms in the middle of cities around all those people...

This right today. Another right tomorrow? One by one, bit by bit.
Then when they tell us to jump, we'll(?) say how high??
My point is that this is not just about smokers rights.
It is just a chip off of the stone that is ALL of OUR rights, as a collective whole.

Just like eminent domain all for the "greater good" right?

I agree that there are many laws (eminent domain being one of them) which do cut into our personal freedom and shouldn't exist... but there does have to be a line somewhere.. your point is well taken.. but the problem with public smoking is that it infringes on other people's personal freedom..

I'm not condoning smoking here, but I do agree with Scarlett as to the chipping away part. If you don't bark they will take them. Even if the premise is not exactly correct. It's not the grocer or the bartender, it's the telling you to do it their way. And they aren't all hot and heavy in some of their tax generating areas. Personnally I feel that we breathe much more air pollution every day and people are more pissed about cigarettes.
Here in NJ they allow it in Casino's ( also Rhode Island and Louisiana ) and certain businesses also. It's quite hypocritical. That as long as your gambling,the health fears for patrons and employees (playing or eating), well just don't apply. Perhaps gambling is a cure for enphysema .

NEW JERSEY

New Jersey's recently adopted “Smoke-Free Air Act” (P. L. 2005. c. 383) prohibits smoking in public places, including restaurants and bars. The legislation includes exemptions for casinos, cigar bars, cigar lounges, and tobacco retailers (see www. smokefree. nj. gov).

A “cigar bar” is any bar, or area within a bar, designated specifically for the smoking of tobacco products purchased on the premises or elsewhere. A cigar bar that is in an area within a bar must be enclosed by solid walls or windows, a ceiling and a solid door and equipped with a ventilation system that is separately exhausted from the nonsmoking areas of the bar.

A “cigar lounge” is any establishment, or area within an establishment, designated specifically for the smoking of tobacco products purchased on the premises or elsewhere. The same wall, window, ceiling, door, and ventilation requirements described above for a cigar bar apply to a cigar lounge that is an area within an establishment.

A “tobacco retail establishment” is one in which at least 51% of retail business is the sale of tobacco products and accessories, and in which the sale of other products is merely incidental.

THe rest of the states with exemptions are L@@K

Ok Scarlett, I will remember you said that the next time other right-chipping issues come up...such as legalizing marijuana, amendments to overturn R vs W, attacks on doctor-assisted suicide...and let's not forget Bush n' Co. Wire Taps, Inc.

Let's become informed on leading pharmaceutical companies backing of American Lung Association, American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, American Non-Smoker's Rights, the American Medical Association, etc. Why is that you wonder?


Robert wood Johnson Foundation-Active Grants Tobacco Use & Exposure

BINGO! Puppets they are!
Purely fodder for pharmaceutical companies, marketing ploy's.
What sort of results do you think these organizations are
truly looking for? Oh I'm so sure that they are
completly un-biased...[sarc]
I'm sure they know which side thier bread is buttered on.

Now once this conspiracy has taken hold, the politically correct,
minded, anti-smoking fanatics have RAN with it.

Which then could lead of government control of society, by forcing all to comform.
Meanwhile losing all personal freedoms. Turning this country into a....




Final thoughts. Will (they) attempt a ban on cars, trucks, trains and planes?
H**l no! That would not be after all [again] a politically correct cause to fight for.

QUOTE

Surgeon Generals' 1986 Report on Environmental Tobacco Smoke, a cigarette puts out a total of 3 mg of nitrogen oxide (NO) and 40 mg of carbon monoxide (CO). The 1995 EPA study on airplane emissions cites a single 747 takeoff/landing at about 115 pounds of NO and 32 pounds of CO.
That's 52 million mg of NO and 14 million mg of CO if you do the math.

Doing a bit more math for a typical 500 takeoffs/landings per day shows us that the nice clean smokefree air being pumped into those terminals has the CO equivalent of over 160 million cigarettes and the NO of Eight and a Half BILLION cigarettes.

All of which is being shwooshed right into the lungs of travelers who are supposedly receiving a "dangerous dose" from a few cigarettes being puffed in secluded and sealed off terminal areas and bars. This would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/comments.pl/3/2631

Poor air quality in especially large urban ares, contribute to childhood asthma.
For instance, California's Central Valley, has a serious air pollution levels where
childhood asthma rates are four times higher than the national average.

But OMG let's ban cigarette smoking in the entire state of California.
That should make a world of difference.

The California state legislature (Assembly Bill 379) is being considered.
The banning of smoking in ones own car to protect children. Sounds good?
We all want children to be protected I'm sure. But what could this lead to?
Banning smoking in one's own home? If there is such a risk to second hand smoke,
then wouldn't there be a heightened risk at home than in a car? Unless of course
families normally take lengthy car trips on a daily basis.....
First public smoking rights, business being [ordered] by law to restrict smoking,
personal vehicles, then what's next our only haven our personal homes!

Here is a thought I read somewhere. Lock yourself in a closed two car garage with
tons of cigarettes burning, then try the same with a car running.

And see which one you survive.....

I've said my piece any more would just be beating a dead horse.

I guess it all boils down to:

Whose rights are more important?

The non-smoking person who wants nothing but smoke-free air? or the smoker who wants nothing but himself to breathe the cigar/cigarette he is enjoying.

I have asthma and even having it waft in my face while outdoors is tough for me.....I used to smoke and even then, could not take second hand smoke. Weird but true.

I've heard that before, actually...smokers who are fine with taking drags but can't handle too much second hand smoke. Sort of ironic..

just to throw my two cents in i am a smoker (bad habit don't start just say no) here in england the smoking
ban starts in july .now a lot of restraunts have been no smoking for a while now and if i want a cigarette
i will go outside but in my local pub most of the regulars smoke ,as i go to this pub nearly everyday afterwork(have 2 pints do crossword go home and help with dinner not an alcoholic) idon't see why me and my friends should be made to go outside for a smoke when we basically keep that pub running .last week
a woman said to me she could'nt wait for the ban to start i asked her how often she came here and she said
this was her first visit i replied so because you decided to grace us with your presence everyone should stop smoking.now i'm not saying its a bad idea for someplacesi.e places that serve food,allow children e.t.c
but i believe the decision should be put down to the manager/owner i know for sure that when it starts
i won't be going anymore and alot of my friends have said the same if thats the case then maybe the place will close a buisness gone ,because the goverment are putting passing trade in front of regular custum.#
you watch as it 's already started people will stop smoking the goverment will make less revenue off the tax and it will shift to something else like motorists (goverment are now putting in place a road levy the more miles you drive the more tax you pay).

that will also affect me as i drive all over the country working.

In a near future, I think all of we would have to pay taxes even to breathe.

never a truer word stated

Smoking in public places? I easily recall the days when one was expected to be smoking tobacco in public places, not the other way around. Times change. Cigarettes are now on the endangered list, being outlawed right left and center, while marijuana is, and has been for some time, making a huge attempt to reclaim it's once legal status. But only for medicinal purposes of course. Soon we just might have non-smokers complaining about not being able to go out on Friday and Saturday night because the 'pot enthusiasts' second-hand smoke makes them giddy and it smells bad too.

Had my first cigarette 50 years ago, when I was in the 3rd grade. After all these years my body is so accustomed to the lovely little additives and natural properties in tobacco should I suddenly stop that would probably kill me due to lack of a form of essential nourishment. I grew up using it!

A permanent non-smoker will probably not be able to identify at all with what I just said and is therefore tolerable. But reformed non-smokers are huge, and sometimes, quite nasty critics of those who do still smoke. Especially the ex-smokers who smoked for many, many years before stopping. I reckon this behavior is because secretly the ex-smoker would love to enjoy a puff with me, but they know it will break their magic spell if they do.

As already stated, during most of my life smoking in public was the 'done thing'. Non-smokers were in a small minority and rarely did one of them complain or take offense. We all just sort of co-habituated in toleration. I have had a non-smoker in, say a restaurant, back in those days politely asked me if I would stop smoking because poor old Nanna at the adjoining table was in frail health and my smoke was causing her to spit back up her chips. I tolerated the situation, agreed, and put out my cigarette immediately. Now days the complainant would demand the proprietor get rid of me or else the establishment could expect to be sued. Times change.

Do I recommend others take up the habit. No. I encourage youngsters not to smoke and not just for health reasons as the economic benefit of being a non-smoker must be tremendous.

Do I think governments are doing the right thing. No. They just happen to be the biggest pusher, second only to the tobacco industry, of a product they claim is harmful. A product that rakes in millions upon millions of tax dollars into their already bulging surpluses. Big Brother slaps my wrist for being a smoker, then sells me the necessary ingredients to ensure I stay that way, whilst spending millions on a graphically offensive advertising campaign encouraging me to stop. This is what I call brain-washing.

Do I think tobacco companies are doing the right thing. No. They are encouraging young people to smoke and peddling their wares to the under aged world-wide to ensure they have a continuing profitable market. But then again the liquor industry pre-mixes their products into what is essentially a child's fizzy drink and encourages the young to have a good, but responsible, fun time imbibing. Don't forget that designated driver ya'll.

If I visit non-smokers homes I either do not smoke or go outside to smoke. If they visit me I recommend they bring along their gas mask purchased for biological warfare defense purposes or give the visit a miss.

I do find it odd that health enthusiasts and non-smokers who jog to stay in shape never seem to give a second thought regarding the auto exhausts they are inhaling whilst running along side a busy city street. Nor do they really know just what is in the 'sports drink' they consume after a good sweaty dash through the pollution of say, Los Angeles or Sydney or good ole London town.

Next time you pop open a can or twist open a bottle of 'the pause that refreshes' remind yourself of it's name. Coke. A hundred years ago cocaine was the drink ingredient that caused all that pausing and refreshing our decedents enjoyed doing. Times change.

Keep smilin'

I smoked for 25 years, my wife still smokes. I hear people all the time whining about how it hurt thier health. Probably the same people who drive home after a "few" at the bar. My smoking was not healthy, but when I drank and drove...... I think that was a lot more dangerous, to me and anybody around me. But I don't hear those people whining about outlawing alchohol......
Brussel sprouts make me sick, physicaly, but I'm not trying to outlaw them for my health.

Eventhough the anti-smoking "terrorists "will say otherwise we, smokers, all decided to go smoking. This was not due to the fact I saw a cowboy riding towards the sunrise or any other advert, it just happened. Only thirteen at that time I did not see the remnifications propperly. It is a people's choise. After my kids were born I went outside the house to smoke since it was my problem...

I reckognize the fact that for a non smoker being in the room with smokers is no too healthy to say the very least, but look at the bright side.. It is free.... (Joking ofcrourse)

In Europe there is going to be a 100% no smoking policy in public places which I considered to be good. Cigarettes have triplled in price so smokers also contribute in their way to the national income...

This is my opinion&thoughts (no offense just stating my opinion&thoughts)
In my judgement,smokers should only smoke in the ff places
-Their own property
-Private places (not much crowd)
-Allowed smoking areas
The reason why people smoke the only reason i know why do people smoke...
-peer-pressure
I just get irritated when i smell the stench of smoke it makes me
act wierder...sometimes...
Fact:There is also a chance that people who breathe in these gasses
in a heavy dose can actually die even if they never smoked in their entire life
So my advice to non-smokers: just avoid smoking areas & stay away from those
whos smoking near you

Death is inescapable for all, whether they breathe smoke or not. One can also die from willfully drinking too much water (hydrotoxemia).

Moderation and compromise are the only ways in which both sides will feel justified. Legislating health is a dangerous precipice, few understand likely ramifications. In the beginning, contributing to Social Security was to be strictly voluntary. Never underestimate how far those in power will take their power, and what they will do to keep it.

It is generally accepted that smoking is on the whole detrimental to health. However, for some it is enjoyable. Who gets to decide what is an acceptable pleasure and what is an unacceptable pleasure? People need to be more communally reliable. The more people run for the shelter of government to solve everyday issues, the more self-control the abdicate. This is an unfounded guess, but I would say that 90% would put out their smoke if someone asked them politely.

As for private establishments, they should be that, private. As long as anything is legal, proprietors must have the right to decide what THEY want to allow on their property. Lacking freedom, we are all slaves.

Salud,
bg04

PS- I agree with you Gman, if you don't want to be around someone while they are doing something, then leave. There is no reason why we must make everyone else's business our own.

smoke if you want
dont if you want we all die someday
lung cancer is no always smoking related

taking away one's rights is simply that. it cannot be justified. "land of the free" (i'm in america) now largely depends on which view you take. what happened to freedom of choice? there are business owners who do not allow smoking in their establishments. that is their right. why is it not the right of a business owner to allow smoking...thus giving the freedom of choice to the patrons?

a good friend bought a bar a few years ago. imagine this: he depends on the income from customers to pay his bills; mortgage, insurance, supplies, employees, etc. since the ban on smoking in "public places" here, he is in danger of losing everything. who gave the gov't the right to take away his income? amazingly enough, now that smoking is no longer allowed, the non-smokers have not taken up the slack (not to mention the physical space) brought on by smokers staying home...where they can have a drink and a smoke and relax.

i DO smoke...but not in my home. we have a nice deck and patio...and THAT is where we go. the reason? first, i got tired of cleaning the walls. second, it cut our smoking in half. however, and many, many non-smokers agree with me...a bar is supposed to be....well, dark and smoky. the atmosphere is as important as the liquor.

what annoys me the most is this: if the gov't is SO determined to "curtail" smoking, why not force the tobacco companies to take OUT all those additives...you know, the ones that make the paper and tobacco burn better and faster, add flavor to the tobacco, and the ones that make damn good and SURE we're addicted (i recently read tobacco companies are spraying more nicotine on their tobacco!)? at least then those of us that want to quit would stand half a chance.

the "theory" of second hand smoke has about as much credence as global warming. we are being brainwashed. we're only being given half the facts. both have become "big business"...under the names "non-profit" and "research". remember that groups doing research are getting grants...both from the government, and from private sectors...on the grounds they prove the results their benefactors want proven. therefore, they will NOT show us any evidence to the contrary, REGARDLESS of how strong that evidence is. should they do so, they risk losing those grants.

in closing, what other rights and choices are the gov't going to take away? how much will our "freedom" dwindle? it wasn't even put up to a vote here. in fact, the night the city council voted on it, it wasn't even on the agenda. this is democratic? i rather think not.

It's not the governments decision weather people should be allowed to smoke or not. They are just trying to protect people that don't smoke and children so they can grow up healthier. But in saying that what we eat can also cause A LOT of upset. They say that we eat to must takeaway food, but they don't ban that now do they. Money and power is all the government wants.

I'm a smoker, although I don't smoke much anymore. I don't smoke in my home,I go outside. I consider myself to be a very considerate smoker, I.E. around non-smkrs,children,public places.
I respect, and yes even envy those of you who have never smoked & have not had to try to get off of them.
Thus my warning to younger people against smoking. As for living near a plant with smoking stacks,an up close & personnal relationship with a muffler,burning wood etc. etc. doesn't this all pretty much fall under the heading of the "peeing in the pool section?" You don't have to live near it or in it. The carsinigine fouled air we breath daily is a fact no matter where you live. Drunk drivers, people on cell phones while driving or putting on make-up etc. while in the car, they are immediate threats, rather than long term. Do you think about chemically treated crops & animals for human consumption, how much do you eat ? ( a long term repercussion to health here). I think what I'm really getting at is this, non-smokers have the right to not be exposed to second hand smoke, but smokers have the right to smoke if they so choose. A compromise to this will never be fully reached. The big deal here is the fact of local,state, & federal government chipping away at all of our rights little by little. Do we really know or realize how much we have lost ? Can you really raise your children the way you want? ( I'm talking humanly & within the realm of human decency)Are you on camera at almost every street corner & intersection with a light,esp. in larger cities ? Most of us are ! Just sit & think , really think about what rights & privacy we have lost over the last 15-20 yrs. It doesn't look pretty out there in the long run for any of our rights, smoker & nonsmoker alike.
Ever read 1984, if not try it. It's really scary stuff esp. if you really look around. Sorry I got so blabby, but I've had my say this time.

I agree with each and every one of you. I'm a smoker, started when a I was.....11?
I'm now in my 30's. I hate it, it's taking it toll on my health , but yet, I just sont have the will power to quit.

I heard somewhere that some people in the medical profession believe it to be as hard to quit as heroine.

I dont smoke in the house or anyone elses for that matter.
I rarely smoke in the street. I dont smoke in a crowded area. I dont smoke in my car. I dont smoke in front of my parents
I enjoy being in a restuarant have a meal without sucking in other peoples smoke, so I agree on no smoking in restuarants. Bars??? Well I guess but if they had a designated area/room where smokers could go to have a fag (smoke) I dont see the harm. We have a couple of League clubs in Australia where they have a designated room just for smokers, which the air gets sucked out via the aircon, which is seperate from the main aircon so the smoke doesn't get recycled into the main aircon.

I have heard recently that in England they are about to trial a law(?) where it is aginst the law to smoke in your own vehicle. i dont know how true that is - so dont go quoting me.

If it is true and thats what we got to look forward to - I'm infuriated over it. As far as I'm concerned, if I want to smoke in my car, that's my business - mind you I dont have kids. If I had kids then I would make a point of not smoking in my car!

While I'm on it, Im sick to death of people looking at me as if I were a leper (ahh, any lepers out there please dont take offence). You know its not like I walk around with my underwear inside out and worn on the outside of my clothes!! Or if I got boogers hanging from my nose or something!

The goverments should be ashamed of themselves on one hand they're waggling their fingers at us - tisk tisking, and on the other their rubbing their greedy little hands together, singing show us the money!!!

Anyway, I'm all for no smoking in the majority of public places but be fair and allow us the space we need to satisfy our addiction the government so disapprovingly keeps supplying to us.