MattV
Jan 4 2008, 10:29 PM
QUOTE(yano @ Feb 12 2006, 11:10 AM)

Did we really land on the moon?
Yes. Anything else you need cleared up?
ReTry
Jan 11 2008, 04:16 PM
[font="Comic Sans MS"][/font]
No matter how it was planned and rigged an endeavor of the size needed to fake a moon landing (not enough CG at the time) would be doomed to failure from the beginning because of human nature. Maybe one or two or ten people might be able to keep

something this big and complicated secret but with all the people need for something of this scope it wouldn't take long for some group

to talk probably out of the crew, the grips for sure. Soon though if not already, in the post 'Wag the Dog' days of digital magic

we will be able to belive nothing, not even what we see with our own eyes. The next step (or close) will be to bypass the eyes of the audience and go straight for the optic nerve. Already we only see what our mind supplys us as it translates the signals from the optic nerve and delivers that information to be displayed in the visual centers of the brain. Once THEY

take over at the translation level we will have not way to tell what is real and what is not. Or has it already happened? Welcome to the Matrix!
Farquard
Mar 14 2008, 09:36 PM
QUOTE(dgraziani28 @ Jan 4 2008, 09:48 PM)

I wish that NASA would launch people on to the moon one more time, just so that they can prove people have been on the moon. Then again, with today's technology, that would probably be easy!
And by the same token those who refuse to believe it happened the first time; will now be able to say that with "today's technology" it was easier to fake.
There is normally not worth the time and energy to convince someone who has already either made up their mind, or gets pleasure out of having contrary views.
wfuhdehr
Mar 26 2008, 11:14 PM
What a great topic.
I, myself, think that moon landings were a great hoax.
carpetshark
Mar 27 2008, 09:29 AM
Go read "BAD ASTRONOMY" by Phil Plait. He has a good chapter on just this. Also website
http://www.badastronomy.com/ and a sense of humor.
Carpetshark
ryan_w_quick
Mar 27 2008, 03:04 PM
Here is a story my history/psychology teacher in high school told me. I dont have a source or quote.
The craft that actually landed on the moon was built to land on a much softer surface than what the moon is. You see, the scientists at NASA had calculated that the dust would be many feet thick, due to a long period of time with no disruptions. However, there was only six inches of dust where the craft landed. The astronauts reported the tough landing an everything.
It just seems like such an extremely well planned and performed hoax, with so many fake details, and no one who was in on it has told, that I for one, do not think our government could have pulled off.
chayisun
Mar 27 2008, 10:11 PM
Well, I've read all this stuff..
PEOPLE,PEOPLE,PEOPLE....The moon is made of cheese..Yes.....Cheese.....My Gramma told me so, many years ago so, therefore, if they DID go to the moon, how come the Astronauts didn't mention this?
AND..What about that cow? You know the one...It jumped OVER the moon..Did the Astronauts mention THAT? HUH? No, they didn't.....And why didn't they mention that....
I don't think they landed on the moon....they landed in PITTSBURGH!!!
wfuhdehr
Mar 27 2008, 10:31 PM
What a
great breeze blows the flag on the moon!!!
Didn't you know there are lots of air on the Moon???

What a great hoax!!!
david28
Mar 28 2008, 04:13 AM
QUOTE
Here is a story my history/psychology teacher in high school told me. I dont have a source or quote.
The craft that actually landed on the moon was built to land on a much softer surface than what the moon is. You see, the scientists at NASA had calculated that the dust would be many feet thick, due to a long period of time with no disruptions. However, there was only six inches of dust where the craft landed. The astronauts reported the tough landing an everything.
It just seems like such an extremely well planned and performed hoax, with so many fake details, and no one who was in on it has told, that I for one, do not think our government could have pulled off
Yeah they probably did make it all up now that I really think about it! The tiem and effort they spent making up all the fake ideas and ll, they probably could have actually gone to the moon.
No doubt that this is one of the worlds greatest conspiracies.
David.
yano
Apr 7 2008, 10:41 PM
If we ever do get man to mars (which it'll be some time), is mars far enough away (and not too close) to use a high powered telescope to see the flag on mars? I know all our current high powered telescopes are too big to look at the moon and all the amatuer ones are too weak. But would the high powered telescopes be able to zoom in on mars? hm...
ryan_w_quick
Apr 8 2008, 07:38 PM
QUOTE(wfuhdehr @ Mar 27 2008, 11:31 PM)

What a
great breeze blows the flag on the moon!!!
Didn't you know there are lots of air on the Moon???

What a great hoax!!!

well i did just watch that. so is that the actual footage? I thought there was no wind on the moon, am i wrong?
KingOfIdiocy
Jun 20 2008, 11:30 AM
No, the US didn't land on the moon.
Also, the earth is flat and the atomic bomb does not work.
Sharonsthere
Jun 20 2008, 11:35 AM
and gravity is the devil's handprint.
really.
all those people involved could never keep that secret.
MattV
Jun 20 2008, 11:18 PM
All of these conspiracay theories fall apart due to one simple fact - they would involve so many thousands of government and civilan personnel, as well as military personnel in some cases, that it would be impossible for the "secret", whatever it was, to be kept.
All conspiracy theories are no more than the delusional ramblings of paranoid morons.
62blue
Jun 27 2008, 02:11 AM
QUOTE(yano @ Feb 12 2006, 10:10 AM)

Did we really land on the moon? Do you believe the USA actually landed there?
Never mind the moon--
we're not really on planet Earth! That's the biggest hoax of all. I have proof but if I showed you, the secret alien police would have to kill me and--hey look, a squirrel!
wfuhdehr
Nov 1 2008, 04:34 PM
QUOTE(MattV @ Jun 21 2008, 06:13 AM)

QUOTE(wfuhdehr @ Mar 27 2008, 11:31 PM)

What a
great breeze blows the flag on the moon!!!
Didn't you know there are lots of air on the Moon???
What a great hoax!!!

Since your link only opens a Spanish version of You-Tube, I can only assume that you are referring to the flag sticking out from the post, instead of hanging limply. That is because there is a stiff piece of wire at the top of the flag holding it out.
Of course, I suppose finding out the facts is too hard for you, as it is for so many other morons.
Me, a moron???
What about this video??? and
this???
I think the moron is not me...

Youtube has removed my first link... Why???
Look what they say
woodyblade
Nov 1 2008, 06:14 PM
I'm sort of on the Fence as to if the US Astronauts got on the Moon so I won't comment particularly on that but if they could get there with Today's Technology why haven't they gone there since 1969?
For starters the Technology which got the Astronauts there was the
Saturn V (Saturn 5) Rocket which NASA threw most of the Plans (Blueprints) out for, they say it only exists on Microfilm in the Marshall Space Flight Centre. I've been lucky enough to see this Powerful Rocket in person, I've been to the Kennedy Space Centre in Florida.
QUOTE
From 1964 until 1973, a total of US$6.5 billion was appropriated for the Saturn V, with the maximum being in 1966 with US$1.2 billion. Allowing for inflation this is equivalent to roughly $32-45 billion in 2007 money. This works out at an amortised cost of $2.4-3.5 billion per launch.
One of the main reasons for the cancellation of the Apollo program was the cost. In 1966, NASA received its highest budget of US$4.5 billion, about 0.5 percent of the GDP of the United States at that time.
That shows you the cost of the Rocket itself, It would be the Only Rocket which could get anyone to the Moon again the Space Shuttle just doesn't have the Payload Capacity or Thrust to launch a Manned Mission to the Moon. So it's a point of Today's Technology can't get anyone there in Space properly the Space Shuttle can only get into the Earths Upper Atmosphere (In case anyone doesn't realise that means your not in Space). The problem is we don't have the Rocket anymore that can break free of the Earths Gravitational Pull.
Out of the 3 Saturn V's that are still in existence only 1 is Launch Capable, Most likely in need of Repairs and Safety checking.
Anyone remember the film
"Armageddon" that is just living in Fantasy Land we would never even get close to destroying a Asteroid like that we can't even launch a Rocket up there to get at it before it is too close to destroy, so all we could do is sit and watch it smash into the Earth.
MattV
Nov 2 2008, 03:42 PM
One of the problems with NASA, as well as nearly everyone else on the planet, is that they think interms of vehicles that launch from and return to the Earth. It would be far more economical to build a vehicle in space that will always stay in space. A vehicle that travels from Earth-orbit to Lunar orbit and back. Fueling, crewing, maintenance,etc. - all done in space. We need space vehicles that are just that - space vehicles. And the Shuttle program can be scaled down. It may look cool, but in reality it would be far less expensive, with faster turn-around times if a passenger to orbit shuttle system were developed, leaving freight shipments to unmanned cargo rockets. So you freight spacecraft components to orbit, and shuttle up the mechanics and engineers required to put them together. Then freight up the fuel, shuttle up the crew, and away they go.
woodyblade
Nov 3 2008, 12:04 PM
QUOTE(MattV @ Nov 2 2008, 08:42 PM)

One of the problems with NASA, as well as nearly everyone else on the planet, is that they think in terms of vehicles that launch from and return to the Earth. It would be far more economical to build a vehicle in space that will always stay in space. A vehicle that travels from Earth-orbit to Lunar orbit and back. Fueling, crewing, maintenance,etc. - all done in space. We need space vehicles that are just that - space vehicles. And the Shuttle program can be scaled down. It may look cool, but in reality it would be far less expensive, with faster turn-around times if a passenger to orbit shuttle system were developed, leaving freight shipments to unmanned cargo rockets. So you freight spacecraft components to orbit, and shuttle up the mechanics and engineers required to put them together. Then freight up the fuel, shuttle up the crew, and away they go.
Good, Thinking out of the Box, it might be possible when the
International Space Station is completed in 2011, it does make more financial sense whether the ESA (Europe, 11 Countries involved), NASA, RKA (Russia) and JAXA (Japan) being Major Players in Space terms would do it that way is another matter, also China although they aren't involved in the ISS Project.
Although you have to think of those extra vehicles you mention, Passenger Transport, Freight Transport, Vehicle In Space (ISS) and Shuttles. So you have 4 things there with 3 needing designing and building or improvement to current things don't you think that will cost a lot alone before you get to the launches of them into Space.
But I think the Costs would be Short Term after the Vehicles are designed there would probably be Long Term Gains by not spending as much to launch vehicles. That would eliminate the need for a very powerful rocket like the Saturn V because of the Vehicles that would be in the Earths Upper Atmosphere already, makes sense
m0le
Nov 3 2008, 01:31 PM
There have been 222 posts on this topic.
Let's see...
"Did we really land on the Moon?"
Yes.
wfuhdehr
Nov 3 2008, 02:19 PM
No.
DSTM
Nov 3 2008, 02:26 PM
Does it really matter?
Abacus 7
Nov 3 2008, 03:05 PM
I can remember similar things about Satilites and even the Space Station?
They just spent Trillions of dollars to perpertrate a Fraud?
My God, wasn't Iraq a great example of it?
Some people would just love to wind back the Clock to say it never happened?
woodyblade
Nov 3 2008, 03:08 PM
QUOTE(m0le @ Nov 3 2008, 06:31 PM)

There have been 222 posts on this topic.
There was 222 Posts when you first replied you had post 223 but now you have post 219, Guess some got removed somewhere or merged not sure I've never read through the Whole Thread only pages 1-2 and 13-15 are the ones I've read.
DSTM is right, I'm not too bothered what happened and if it was true or not or I would have said Yes or No by now.
m0le
Nov 3 2008, 03:26 PM
QUOTE
DSTM is right, I'm not too bothered what happened
Maybe you should be writing on another thread then.
To everyone else, let's see a link to something which
proves that man didn't land on the moon.
Abacus 7
Nov 3 2008, 04:19 PM
QUOTE(m0le @ Nov 4 2008, 06:26 AM)

QUOTE
DSTM is right, I'm not too bothered what happened
Maybe you should be writing on another thread then.
To everyone else, let's see a link to something which
proves that man didn't land on the moon.
Hang on a minute, Mate?
This is Speak easy?
I think you re-think what you just Posted? Then a little word?
I believe that here each is entitled to their own opinion without fear?
m0le
Nov 3 2008, 04:25 PM
Whoa Abacus, slow down.
If the topic is about whether or not man landed on the moon then why would someone who doesn't care keep posting.
Also, I am also allowed to express my opinion that he should try another thread..
Oh, and it was meant as a joke.
Blimey.
DSTM
Nov 3 2008, 04:32 PM
Hi Mole,You can't dictate, who posts in what threads.
Always a joke, when brought to task.
Lets all give our opinions freely.
Abacus 7
Nov 3 2008, 04:36 PM
Yep, I agree whole heartly!
Speak easy is here for us all to relax and to be Friendly toward each other talking about Subjects that sometimes are quite volitile.
m0le
Nov 3 2008, 05:05 PM
I give up
wfuhdehr
Nov 3 2008, 07:05 PM
QUOTE(DSTM @ Nov 3 2008, 09:26 PM)

Does it really matter?

Yes it does...
DSTM
Nov 3 2008, 07:25 PM
That's what I was asking.
Does it really matter.It was a space race, at the time, between Russia and America.
What real benefit, has been gained, by landing on the moon?
Space Stations, are a must if we are to learn more about space,but just to land on the Moon,take some samples and in 30 years have no Base there,and no immediate plans to return,except for a couple of rovers, seems to me to have been pretty much a waste of time,and huge expense. They already knew the temperature on the Moon won't sustain life,that it is barren,so what if there are signs of water.
As far as, did America land on the Moon,I don't think we will ever know, for certain.I would like all crew members, to publically take a Poligraph Test. We all know that wouldnt be allowed, because it would reveal the truth.
Lunar surface Temperatures.
http://www.asi.org/adb/m/03/05/average-temperatures.htmlEDIT.
wfuhdehr. Would you be kind enough to elabourate,re your opinion, that it does matter.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
wfuhdehr
Nov 3 2008, 08:02 PM
It does, because we have the right to know all the truth. We are in a age of great changes and one of the reasons for these changes was another great hoax, the 9/11.
If you remember, this event was one of the reasons why USA invade the Iraqi soil based on a bunch of lies about the WMD that this country had. The result of this act were millions of deaths and billions of dolars in profits for a few business ventures.
So, I think we have reached the moment of truth. Don't you agree DSTM?
woodyblade
Nov 4 2008, 02:27 PM
QUOTE(m0le @ Nov 3 2008, 09:25 PM)

If the topic is about whether or not man landed on the moon then why would someone who doesn't care keep posting.
Also, I am also allowed to express my opinion that he should try another thread..
Well I commented for reasons on my Original Post at reply
217, that tells you why I don't want to say "Yes" or "No" because we don't have the Technology to get back to the Moon so even
IF they got there or not.
You are allowed to express your Opinion, just like I am on my Stand point about this did they get to the Moon or not, Take note that I don't have to talk exactly about the Topic just talk about various aspects that link in with this Topic, I see my aspect on the Technology NASA had in the Apollo Program, as well as the current Technology as another talking point what helps in this Topic.
Abacus 7
Nov 4 2008, 03:31 PM
QUOTE(wfuhdehr @ Nov 4 2008, 11:02 AM)

It does, because we have the right to know all the truth. We are in a age of great changes and one of the reasons for these changes was another great hoax, the 9/11.
If you remember, this event was one of the reasons why USA invade the Iraqi soil based on a bunch of lies about the WMD that this country had. The result of this act were millions of deaths and billions of dolars in profits for a few business ventures.
So, I think we have reached the moment of truth. Don't you agree DSTM?
I think a record amount of Americans who are Voting right now would agree that the moment of Truth has certainly arrived.
MattV
Nov 4 2008, 06:00 PM
QUOTE(wfuhdehr @ Nov 3 2008, 09:02 PM)

We are in a age of great changes and one of the reasons for these changes was another great hoax, the 9/11.
Hoax? So the people I knew that were in those buildings on that day are not really dead? The whole thing was just a Steven Spielberg production?
If I were to say what I am truly thinking right now this post would be deleted and I would receive a warning from admin.
groovicus
Nov 4 2008, 06:23 PM
QUOTE
So the people I knew that were in those buildings on that day are not really dead?
<sarcasm on>You didn't have any friends there...you're part of the hoax too.</sarcasm off>
QUOTE
If I were to say what I am truly thinking right now this post would be deleted and I would receive a warning from admin.
That's why I don't reply to these sort of posts. I would have to admonish myself..... doesn't do any good to argue either. Won't change my opinion, won't change theirs......
scff249
Nov 4 2008, 08:14 PM
QUOTE
It does, because we have the right to know all the truth. We are in a age of great changes and one of the reasons for these changes was another great hoax, the 9/11.
That's like saying the Kennedy Assassination was really done by the US Government, that the world is going to end by 2012 according to the Maya Calendar, that Area 51 doesn't exist, and etc.
....actually, that first one was kind of half-bleeped....I heard of that one somewhere, just don't remember where. And the Area 51 thing was just random....
But yeah.....shutting up.
KingOfIdiocy
Nov 4 2008, 10:23 PM
QUOTE
What real benefit, has been gained, by landing on the moon?
The same benefit gained from climbing high mountains, sailing single-handedly around the world, swimming the channel, etc. etc.
Abacus 7
Nov 5 2008, 12:01 AM
QUOTE(KingOfIdiocy @ Nov 5 2008, 01:23 PM)

QUOTE
What real benefit, has been gained, by landing on the moon?
The same benefit gained from climbing high mountains, sailing single-handedly around the world, swimming the channel, etc. etc.
Dead Right, Mate!
DSTM
Nov 5 2008, 12:15 AM
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Nov 5 2008, 04:01 PM)

QUOTE(KingOfIdiocy @ Nov 5 2008, 01:23 PM)

QUOTE
What real benefit, has been gained, by landing on the moon?
The same benefit gained from climbing high mountains, sailing single-handedly around the world, swimming the channel, etc. etc.
Dead Right, Mate!

Don't agree.The reward didn't justify the outlay.
Abacus 7
Nov 5 2008, 12:33 AM
At the time there was a Cold War going on?
It may well have been Properganda at the time?
It certainly lead to a change in attitude.
Bit like when the Aussies took the Americas Cup after 163 years?
MaraM
Nov 5 2008, 01:31 PM
Just my own opinion but I firmly believe they did land on the moon. But that said, I'm still asking myself 'why'. Perhaps "because we can"?
DSTM
Nov 5 2008, 02:17 PM
The next manned Moon mission planned for 2018,is expected to cost 104 Billion Dollars.
That's a lot of money,when the US Economy is not the strongest.
Wonder can they justify the cost.
A manned expedition to Mars is expected to cost 1.8 Trillion Dollars.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/lunar-05zzc.html
MaraM
Nov 5 2008, 04:21 PM
Perhaps simplistic of me but I honestly can't see most taxpayers being thrilled about spending this massive sums on 'fun'. If there was excess monies in the budget, that's one thing - but to be so incredibly far in debt now and even contemplating spending this kind of money on non-necessities such as these - egad!
wfuhdehr
Nov 5 2008, 05:32 PM
QUOTE(MattV @ Nov 5 2008, 01:00 AM)

Hoax? So the people I knew that were in those buildings on that day are not really dead? The whole thing was just a Steven Spielberg production?
If I were to say what I am truly thinking right now this post would be deleted and I would receive a warning from admin.

I know this is not the right place to talk about this issue, but I have to tell you a couple of things:
1 - Unfortunately, the deaths are real.
2 - The hoax is the official propaganda of Bush Administration about the killers, the whole thing looks like a bad Steven Spielberg production.
garmanma
Nov 5 2008, 09:03 PM
QUOTE
I'm still asking myself 'why'. Perhaps "because we can"?
When people see the amount of money without any return on investment, They're always going to question it. They fail to see the other things that have evolved from the space program. For example the Atlas/Centaur booster rocket. It was the workhorse of the early years of the space program. My father was one of the directors of the Guidance Dept and was one of the developers of the guidance system. That booster has put thousand of satellites in orbit. Everything from military to communications to Google Earth. It was only recently retired.
I was never 100% gung-ho for it, I busted his chops for it at times, but the space industry has produced quite a few jobs in the past
Lloyd T
Nov 5 2008, 10:06 PM
QUOTE
Why did the flag wave on the moon, if there is no wind and atmosphere there?
The flag was only waving when the astronauts were planting it. After that, it stood still.
QUOTE
If it is real, why weren't there any stars in the background of the movie?
From Wikipedia:
QUOTE
The sun was shining. Cameras were set for daylight exposure, and could not detect the faint points of light. Even the brightest stars are dim and difficult to see in the daytime on the Moon. Harrison Schmitt saw no stars from the Moon.
Look at any picture of the International Space Station or satellites talem ny astronauts in Low Earth Orbit where you can see space. I can't see any stars - does that mean all of those are fake?
QUOTE
Why wasn't there a blast crater on the moon from when it landed?
From Wikipedia:
QUOTE
No crater should be expected. The Descent Propulsion System was throttled very far down during the final landing. The Lunar Module was no longer rapidly decelerating, so the descent engine only had to support the module's own weight, diminished by the 1/6 g lunar gravity and by the near exhaustion of the descent propellants. At landing, the engine thrust divided by the nozzle exit area is only about 10 kilopascals (1.5 PSI)[44], p. 164. Beyond the engine nozzle, the plume spreads and the pressure drops very rapidly. (In comparison the Saturn V F-1 first stage engines produced 3.2 MPa (459 PSI) at the mouth of the nozzle.) Rocket exhaust gases expand much more rapidly after leaving the engine nozzle in a vacuum than in an atmosphere. The effect of an atmosphere on rocket plumes can be easily seen in launches from Earth; as the rocket rises through the thinning atmosphere, the exhaust plumes broaden very noticeably. To reduce this, rocket engines designed for vacuum operation have longer bells than those designed for use at the Earth's surface, but they still cannot prevent this spreading. The Lunar Module's exhaust gases therefore expanded rapidly well beyond the landing site. However, the descent engines did scatter a lot of very fine surface dust as seen in 16mm movies of each landing, and many mission commanders commented on its effect on visibility. The landers were generally moving horizontally as well as vertically, and photographs do show scouring of the surface along the final descent path. Finally, the lunar soil is very compact below its surface dust layer, further making it impossible for the descent engine to blast out a "crater".
The rocket was not strong enough to blast a crater.
For more info:
Wikipedia Article about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_hoaxYouTUbe Video Debunking the hoax (part 1):
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=-lh1xY4A6Xc&...feature=relatedPart 2:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy3WH2Ln_aY&...feature=related
MattV
Nov 6 2008, 10:31 AM
QUOTE(wfuhdehr @ Nov 5 2008, 06:32 PM)

The hoax is the official propaganda of Bush Administration about the killers...
Let me guess - the administration was behind the whole thing.
When are you expecting the return of the Mother Ship?
MattV
Nov 6 2008, 10:33 AM
QUOTE(DSTM @ Nov 5 2008, 03:17 PM)

The next manned Moon mission planned for 2018...
This will never happened, since the final nail in America's coffin was driven home on November 4.
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