~ Sites such as MySpace.com are fast becoming a growing threat to our childrens online saftey. Others include, Xanga.com, LiveJournal.com and facebook.com. The age requirements for My Space.com for instance is set at 14. The age limit should be set at 18, but it does not matter much, because kids LIE about their age in order to sign up. Personally I would never consider allowing a child of mine to create a blog on My Space. Kids post personal content of their own, in an attempt to draw attention to themselves. The goal is for their blog to be one of the most popular ones. The more comments, and so called "friends" one has at My Space, the more popular one will become. And we all know popularity among ones peers has always been sought after by kids. Responding to blog comments, could then lead to lengthy correspondence with what may even be an online predator.

All in all, a sad, sad situation indeed.
Parents please step up to your responsibility as a parent, and monitor your childrens online activities!
Before it is to late ~ Scarlett

Complete MSNBC Article
Internet safety: What parents need to know
Online-Safe Resources for Home & School


Internal Link: WiredKids.org, Internet Saftey, Help and Education

That is why I run VNC and monitor my kids while online. They can have privacy when they turn 18 and get there own place. I also am looking into keyloggering thier computers so I can go to thier "Personal" space on these websites.
Parential apathy is the greatest harm. I find some parents use the computer as an electronic baby sitter.

acklan, I agree with you 100%, on all points. And I'd like to address one point in particular.



Parental apathy? Yes so harmful! But what about a parent that insists that they are not appathic what so ever? This can be extremly harmful as well!
This subject had hit very close to home for me last year. I attempted to discuss the subject of an 10 year old family member's My Space membership to his parent.
I was told in no uncertain terms ( and I quote) that I was a "paranoid alarmist". I provided links and screenshots of the child's pages and of some of the child's so called "friends". Not enough proof??? All this mind you was after the parent was informed of a prior My Space acount created by the child. Yet the child was able (allowed) to surf alone and create a second My Space account.

I found this cavalier attitude to be quite alarming. Yes I may have attacked the parental abilities of said parent. But this child's My Space account had a "friend" whom had clickable banner ads to a pornographic
web site. I can not be sure that the child accessed the offensive content of the "friend's" personal MY Space page or the linked porn. But to me it was just to close for comfort. So I did not feel as if I should beat around the bush. The child's safety was more important than any adults feelings. IMHO I do not apologize and I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.

Denial is another step. Since I read your first post I have added those sites to the blocked list in the Content Advisor. I have been using the Content Advisor with great effect and the blocking of downloads and installation of said. This was one of the reasons I moved to W2k for the kids.
I am not here to be thier friend or to be liked. I am here to make sure they grow up safe. If they become mad for it, so be it.

I'd like to ask about this "safety" but I guess it would be off topic. In my opinion you did the right thing warning the parent about their child's activities. But only that.
However thank you for the heads-up about Myspace.

Parents today have gone soft. They hardly pay attention to their kids or what they do. I mean look at the Hot Coffee scandal parents whent out and got their 12 and 14 year olds this game w/o paying attention to the content just to make their kids shut up. If I had kids I'd monitor them till they begged me to stop and then keep doing it. But I dont have kids. Nope I got roomates and their worse "Lemme use your computer to check my mail, Lemme use your computer to surf the Internet". Its almost like their begging me "Let me see if I can crash your new computer". A keylogger is comming to my computer and I will know if they crack my passwords (like i did my parents). My parents tried their darnedest to protect me but some parents arent even trying in my opinon.

You make a good point, as have others who have replied to this topic.
I think it is the responsability of the parents to keep their kids safe. I have 3 teenagers, NONE of them have a computer in their bedrooms! They all share 1 computer, and that 1 computer is in the Living room. So noone can be online in private. And none of them are allowed to be online after 11pm. These are MY rules! I am the parent! And if they don't like it then that is just tough, it is not gonna change! In my opinion this is the way all parents should be. There are too many parents out there that use video game consoles, pc's, and DVD players as babysitters. And although I cannot change or tell people how to raise their kids, I can say that if something bad happens because you didn't pay attention to what your kids were doing....then it is your own d@mn fault! Don't blame technology, the parent should be in control! JMHO

"Safety"? Off topic? Hardly. Safety concerns over children (minors) is the point of this topic.
You must also remember the child was only 10 years old.



Besides what ever happened to, teaching your children not to talk to strangers?

@ BlackSpyder & RaSkull
I applaud you parental concern and efforts toward the safe-gaurding of your children.

I agree fully. I may not have any kids but blogs such as myspace do pose A bit of A threat. There are few options though that maybe you have not heard about. There is an option to only allow people on the member's friend list to view their blog. I Belive that this option should be manditory until they are 18 and that they should have A more valid age verification process. At the same time however, What ways do they have to do so? Also even after blocking myspace can they not go and find yet another blog? There are alot more out there that are simply not that popular, but when your kids find this out surely they too will skyrocket.

I use myspace myself, but mainly for music publicity purposes. I never even bothered to create an account until I recently heard that you can post your music there.

i think this article is completely stupid. its much easier for a child to just go to google and search for "pornographic content" than go on myspace, yet i dont see any complaints about google being made?
And about some people wanting to keylog their kids and spy on them. thats just being overprotective. kids need some private space and thats crossing the line between caring for your child and spying.

Im not picking sides at all here because myspace could change A few things, but yes, that is A good point. I am yet to see any "ponographic content" on myspace. I believe that all this hype is based off of isolated and rare occurences of these problems.

Scarlett - In the example you gave, your concern for the safety of the child appeared to be based on the possible access to pornographic material via a friends page. You did not mention any reference to predatory behaviour.



I thought having "attacked the parental abilities of said parent" for allowing a ten year old possible access to porn amazingly presumptious. Warning the parent is entirely appropriate and I again applaud you for doing so. Whether or not the parents choose to heed your warning is none of your business.

The dangers of predatory behaviour is a different issue because it involves 'duty of care' and other legislation which may in certain circumstances override the parents right to control their childs access to media. It would be up to a court I imagine, rather than an individual, to determine what action was appropriate in what circumstances.

Myspace has already been taken to court for such things and thus is why they now have the pointless age limit. But you're right: I wouldn't be the least bit supprised if I heard about them being involved in another lawsuit.

See the interesting thing about this is that the generation that is taking care of the kids (The parents) didn't grow up with the internet and don't know as nearly as much about electronics as the children of today. I kind of laugh when I see my cousin who is 6 fix the TV (reprogram the remote) for his dad/mom.

Just wait until it's our turn. muhahaha those pesky kids don't know what is coming...

I agree that parents should pay more attention to what their children are doing on the internet. I have a myspace, but everyone except 3 people, are people I go the school with. The other 3 are staff members from tech sites like here, and GTG. I have seen many people give away as much information as to what school they go to, and what sports they play, as well as their first and last name. I have almost no information at all on there, and the information I do have, isn't giving out my location, name, etc. I agree with Scarlett, I think the age requirement should be 18, instead of 14. Unfortunately though, young kids will still continue to sign up.

~Kristy

Not if there are supevised while they are on Google. My kids may view content that I have taught them is wrong while at a friend's house or the libreiry. I will not denie that, but to not try is worst than failing. Atleast I am trying. When my kids are on the internet I am in the room with them. I review and add sites to thier allowed list when I think it is appropriate. Not what peer or popular consensus is at that point in time.
If it is so stupid why have you taken the time to read and reply to it. Must be a slow night.



You call it spying I call it responsible parenting. Yes I am going to start keylogging my children and when I'm not around and they slip on the computer they will know, I know. In the event a pediphile aproaches them online I will have the information to hand over to police.
There is no such thing as a parent spying. If not morally than legally you are responsible for your child's actions. If they are doing something potentially harmful to themselves or others you not only have the right but the obligation as a responsible parent to intervien. They can have thier privacy when they have thier own place. Until then I will know what goes on in my house.
I have little or no respect for a parent that allows a child to proceed unsupervised whether on the internet, in the movie theater, the mall, or at home alone. These are dangerous times and should not be taken lightly. "Give them thier space" sounds good till they turn up missing or commit a crime and the parents cannot believe it happened to their little angel.
By the way the internet in a privledge not a right, at least in my house. The software I use turns it off at 10pm and back on at 6am. That was after I caught my, then 11yr old, on the internet at 3am with her friends. Their parents did not know either till I called a 3:15am to advise them. By the way they were grateful and use the same parental software now.
I cannot say mine will not be the next Jeffery Dalmer, John Gassie, or John Hinkley, but it won't be because they were not taught right from wrong. If you have to ask why or don't understand my approach you never will, so don't even bother trying.

When I get children (eventually) I will probably do the same. I was simply trying to shed some light on the situation and make it known that Myspace is not the source of all problems. People are making Myspace blogs look so horrible but I believe that by the age of 16 your children should have the common sense not to put their personal info on public websites.



Responsible parenting (I bevlieve) is not just preventing it at your home, but making it known to them that their personal info should not be posted on the net, that way if/when they do go to what you deem to be innapropriate sites they know what they should not do. That way when you catch them they will have A guilty consience about it, and if they are as young as 10 and 14 (The 2 ages I can recall reading here) that should be enough to keep them from doing it.

I agree about educating your children not to put personal information on the internet, but kids are kids and as such need close supervision. I am not blasting MySpace for bad content, I just do not give my kids the chance, when possible, to be exposed to the bad thing of the internet. To me it is no different than when I listen to an album before I allow the kids to have it. I know 21 year old that cannot make an informed dission much less a 16 year old. If I make a mistake by not allowing them more personal freedom I'll deal with that when and if it becomes apparent. For now I want to know when, how, with whom, where, how many,..

Tha is exactly my point. That is what I do.Atleast for now they are cool withit.
I don't think a 14 year old will be disswaded by being caught. It has not to this point. That in it's self does not make a bad kid. She has been caught and I believe she will try again. That is part of being a kid. I just keep a close I so that hopefully she won't get hurt.
By the way I have a 13 year old and 7 year old twins on computers. They have had their own computers since March '03. The computer is only a tool or a toy. It's how you are allowed to use it that determines if it is harmful. I would no more leave them unattented with the internet than I would leave my pistol out of the gunsafe unattented. In my eyes either can lead to serious injury or death.

Myspace is a great tool for accessing "lost" friends and new music. I use it and while there is plenty of my personal information on there its nothing that a simple search of my actual name or someone hacking my email accounts would bring up (actually probly less). Always remember this is the Internet and Identity Theft is rampent. I post a few tips for kids and parents:
1)Never use your real name as a alias (yeah kinda defeats the purpose of an alias)
2)Never give out where you live (local metro is kinda ok depending on size ie: if you live in a suburb of a large metro say madison (a suburb of Nashville,TN) Nashville whould suffice but if you live in a small area like Altavista, VA Altavista would not do (due to the fact that the population is around 1000 and its a very small area).
3)Dont post more than 1 email address in any site or chatroom or BBS (do they still have these???)
4)Chatting is ok just chat w/ people in your age range.
5)Always check the people you are chatting w/ profiles (if they dont have one beware)
6)If you cant watch over your kids shoulder (dinner,work, yoga, palaties, spinning, insert your lame excuse here) use a keylogger and use parental control software
7)If something looks wrong.....It proably is
8)Avoid local chatrooms that arent really local (ie: AOL local, Yahoo Geographic)
9)Babysitter=16 yr old bubbly blonde saving up for church camp (laugh it up) not Computer, Video Game, Internet, or TV
10)Watch what you say. Remember-every site or chatroom has a con-artist (believe me they do). If you can survey the people around you it wont take log to figure out who they are.
Finally,
11)If you screw up and a situation arises, Never be afriad to contact an authority figure (kids=parents, Adult=Police) better to let them deal with a stalker/predetor then you.

Somethings may seen common sense but hey better to err on the side of caution and help a parent who doesnt know then let the innocent get taken or used

BTW acklan I dont have kids but when I do they will have no private space I remember what I did as a kid/teenager and dont think I will forget it (what little I remember of it)

I must agree that it can be used to find 'lost' friends. Although I don't have a myspace, I've thought about it only to contact other people I know though. With myspace, somebody I know at school was contacted by a friend of mine that moved away and whom I've never heard from for ten years.

Now I can't exactly comment on too much because having children is still a ways ahead of me. However, I try to be as careful as I can be when doing things such as not disclosing certain information, which was my parent's teachings.

My position will most likley change when I have children to watch out for.

MSNBC News - Dateline 'To Catch a Predator' III

One thing about this bothers me:


You really don't want your children to have any freedom or sense of privacy? What about if Mr. Bushy wanted to start recording every key you pushed on your keyboard, and every click of your mouse? How would you feel then? It's not spying, it's just responsible terrorist-stopping-activity.

Kids should have boundries, yes, but i don't think pulling a wire-tapping maneuver is appropriate. Restricting sites is all good, putting locks on files/internet settings is fine, but at least give them privacy if they want to talk to their friends on Gaim or something...

Until there "friend" asks them to meet at the mall and the child disappears for ever. This isn't theory in free speech, it's real world. I have a friend in the Atternory Generals Office for the State of Louisiana and the only thing keeping them from arresting for crimminals is man power.
If it was not good parenting then at the very least it's legally your (presuming you have kids) responsiblilty for the actions of your children. The courts all over the country hold the parents rsponsible damages done by their kids.
I will say now if I caught my kids planning illegal activities on the net we would have the police seating in the house in an instant. I lead by example, and have a zero tolerance policy in my house. My kids know if the commit a crime law enforcement will know about it. Crime is unacceptable and not tolarated.

Where I live at they have a special program for catching these pervs its called Blue Ridge Thunder. It actually works too. The cops bait a perv by pretending to be a young girl (or boy) and then wait for the prev to make his move and come down to see them. Then they catch the perv in the act of attempting to pick up the child and arrest them. As for letting kids chat its ok as long as parents watch who they are talking to. Privacy for kids should not exist in thier parents house except in the bathroom. It didnt when I was growing up. My parents watched me like a hawk and if i messed up I knew about it about 3 seconds after they did. they were on my butt faster then greased lightning. Smoking, Dipping, Drinking, Porn, Drag Racing, anything I did was watched by my parents, their friends, and my friends parents. Of course that the good/bad thing about living in a small town.

Again, how is this any different from what the government wants to do? I've seen many people in this thread saying that kids should have absolutely no privacy regarding what they say and do, but then whine and complain about how the government is invading the rights of the american people. How exactly are these 2 issues different?

I'm not saying to give the kid complete freedom, that would be pretty ignorant. I just don't see a reason why you should rule and dictate everything they do online. If you're that worried about it, why not just block out chat-rooms and sites that offer chat? There's no need to invade their private conversations with their friends.

I grew up with relative freedom. I'm 19 now, and have never been arrested. I was never approached by an internet predator, was never asked where i lived or anything regarding my personal information. My parents taught me well enough not to act stupid. A little education goes a long way..... why substitute spy tools where teaching logic would be appropriate?

It just seems like overkill, and an invasion of privacy to me.

The difference is if you do something wrong you are held responsible, if a child does something wrong the parent will be held responsible. And in most cases should be.

Why spy tools? Call and ask your State Attornery General's Office to put a forum on about internet peditors. If you have a problem finding the contact person let me know. My friend is over Internet Crimes for the AG's Office for the State of Louisiana. I'm sure he can get me a contact for you. You have no idea what kind of animals prowl the internet.

I have a MySpace, you can go look at it, just search for my BC alias (how indifferent). Almost every single person that is in my friends list I know personally, the other few the my friends know them. I do have some personal info on the site, but it's not enough for somebody to stalk me.

I do agree that kids should be given freedom, but that freedom must be controlled by thir parents. Given total freedom, I don't think that kids would be safe anymore. That's why parents are so hard on their kids, they want them to be safe. That's exactly how my parents are. They will not let me go over to a friends house unless they know their parents, they will not let me hang-out with friends unsupervised, they will not let me go to parties. I am 17 and I have not slipped, mainly big things (burglary, vandalism, drugs, etc.). I chose my friends, and that's who I am keeping. I know for a fact that they are involved with the bad things of today, but inside somewhere they're nice people. My parents can't tell me who to hang-out with, who to make friends with, etc. but parents must control how they meet and in what conditions they do.

I know that my opinion sidetracked off-topic, but I said what I needed to.

I'm not saying to give the kid complete freedom, that would be pretty ignorant. I just don't see a reason why you should rule and dictate everything they do online. If you're that worried about it, why not just block out chat-rooms and sites that offer chat? There's no need to invade their private conversations with their friends.

-----

When I was about 16 I knew a girl whose parents read her email. They found out her password because they had a key logger. They ended up finding out she was having sexual relations with a guy that was 10 years older than her.

Privacy?? Rights?? Kids have no rights and shouldnt have privacy. As long as parents are going to be held accountable for the kids mistakes (truancy, illeagal downloading, theft) and are paying for their room and board their rights will be dicated by their parents.
Whereas the Government is taking rights from people who actually have rights (given to us in the "Bill Of Rights") that cannot be taken away without compleatly distroying the country itself.

Overkill is better then having your son or daughter molested and/or killed by some perv out for fun on a saturday night.

Of course privacy and rights should be limited to those over the age of 18. It states it so clearly in the bill of rights that only those that have the ability to drive and legally purchase porn should have the right to privacy and their own life..... Besides, what are children besides pets with intelligence? They shouldn't be given freedom or rights, should they?

I'm really glad i haven't been raised by the people in this thread. I'd hate to have the feeling that i was constantly being watched, and couldn't talk to my friends without the threat of punishment from my parents.

I was never watched like a hawk when i was growing up (which wasn't too long ago). My parents TAUGHT me what was right and wrong. People keep bringing up the point that "Parents are responsible for any trouble the kids get into." This seems extremely selfish. Why is a major argument dealing with how much trouble the parent would get into if they don't destroy their child's privacy?

There are other ways to protect your children outside of recording every single thing they type and listening into phone conversations. I'm surprised wire tapping and phone bugging haven't been mentioned as a method yet. Here's a thought: teach your children what they should do and what they shouldn't do. If they don't listen to you then, what are you going to do if they start talking to a predator online? You're not going to ground them, they'll find a way out. If they don't listen to you regarding safety, why would they listen to you regarding punishment?

Am i the only one in the forums that believe children shouldn't live in a cage, and deserve a degree of freedom and privacy?

That is so mean and BS.. Privacy cant be denied!!!!

I completely agree with you. Being protective is great, but spying is stepping over the line. I think the kids should keylog their parents. haha.

Ok, lets get this straight, keyloggers LOG what YOU TYPE not what others TYPE. You Said Keylogger, now you might mean like a Advanced Keylogger where it takes screenshots etc. but I just wanted to point that out.

Just my thoughts on it.

Thats funny because I had to do that at one point. Someone in the house had been constantly fulling around in control pannel completely oblivious to what they were doing when they changed the settings that they were changing. The system was constantly developing the same problems immediately after I did A full restore on it.

So I put A keylogger on it and found that my Aunt had be doing it.

but kids now a days can get around stuff like VNC..my moms tried to install a bunch of thouse and password protect em but i've still got through them and got rid of em

The day I don't have the last say in my house is the day she won't have a computer.
Neverwill you may get around the hardware and programs, but it would be the last time. To use that computer you would be sitting right in front of me. Oviously your mother it not that serious about tracking your usage.
The problem with you and most of the replies to this topic is you are still seeing it from a child's prospective. I take my kids safety very seriously and if it means they cannot do anything without me knowning about it, and they don't like it, so be it. I am not here to be liked. I am here to make sure my childern get an education, are safe, and learn that respect of others is as important as respect for themselfes.
The one thing they will have to learn is there are limits and boundaries that everyone has to go by.


In our Parish/government (Parish=County in Louisiana) uses loggering software that track every letter that you type on the Parish computers. The tech with our IS dept. agreed to teach me how to use it to track how and where my kids go on the internet. The software resides on the users computer but is only accessable to the administrator. I will be able to review it when I choose. If she can figure out how to defeat the Restricted User Account I assigned her, the logging will be mute because she will not have a computer that needs to be monitored. She will not have a computer. Just thought I would point that out.

No matter what anyone's thoughts are regarding this subject. The news reports keep pouring in.
The danger that could be lurking @ MySpace and others like it, is a definite possibility.
I also do not care what anyone says, porn is easially accessible at MySpace.
If only a few clicks away.....
As there is no restriction and no filters of any kind at MySpace.com.

I don't have kids. But I know people my age that use myspace. And after seeing those Dateline and local news stories, I am kind of disturbed by what teens post on myspace. Posting cell phone numbers and home addresses? You might as well paint a bulls-eye on you !!!

I completly agree with those of you who watch your kids constantly while they are online. I will do the same when I have kids. As Scarlett stated in her last post, this is a real danger. It is better to have your kids hate your guts and be alive, then loving you and dead. It may take awhile, but they will eventually realize, as I did, that their parents are trying to protect them from sickos and murderers.

To my Future Kids: I will watch your every move online, every keystroke, every chatroom you visit; privacy be . If you get around my safe guards, I will install new ones. If you defy them again, you will not use the computer. Period. Go ahead and hate me. At least that way, it will be a long, long hate. When you get older and move out, you will understand that I love you. Thank you and goodnight.

rms4evr

rms4evr

Very well said, I wholeheartedly concur with everything you said

ScHwErV

As a parent of 3 and use that approach with my kids, I support your view and opinion.

Next question: why don't you go everywhere they go, conduct random searches of their rooms, and listen to their phone conversations?

There's "danger" in all of those activities too...

Children could find themselves in danger no matter where they go.
The park, school, clubs activities etc. There is always a chance of something happening.
But... the internet is fast becoming the easiest quickest way to lure a child toward danger.
With personal info being posted by young members the predators already have an "in".
It's all downhill from there.
Plus the fact that the predators can pretend to be kids too. The annominity factor alone is a huge help to the filth that prowl for kids. Before the internet they had to show their faces and even then were able to succeed.
So now it is mindboggling what they can accomplish. All of which only heightens their odds at luring a child.


Ok HM now let's visit the flip side of your question/comment.
For arguments sake.

Would you drop a child of yours off at a bar/strip club, and hope for the best?

I do. It's called responsible parenting. I cannot say a preditor will not git them, but it wil not be because I left them unsupervised.

I go, or a trusted family or friend accompanies them

Nothing random about it. I search there room whenever I want with or without them present.

The NEVER answer the telephone. I allow them to talk on the telephone if I find it appropriate. And if it were to become a problem I would record thier conversations to find out what I need to know.

It makes more sence to be proactive than reactive. Like I have said MANY times in this forum it is my responsibility to protect them, t whatever cost. I am thier Father not thier friend.

I think one of the problems is that parents do not fully understand all the activities their children do on the web. This may be due to indifference, or just to ignorance of internet technology.
I also think it fair to say that many parents fail to provide sufficient guidance about what are proper activities on the internet. They will repeatedly remind their children not to ride with people they do not know, or never to talk to strangers, or use protectionetc., but do not provide the same kind of warnings to their children when it comes to blogs, chat, or webcams. Even in real life, for example, people appear to be someone they are not, and this holds even more true on the internet; children should be advised to have a healthy mistrust of persons they meet there, and reminded that whatever they do is far from private, but rather public.

Older children seek socialisation with their peers, as any parent can understand when they get their phone bills, and the internet is yet another way for teenagers to bond together. See today's TimesOnline article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2049863,00.html

(MySpace blogs, for example, can be configured, as I understand it, to appear visible only to people on a list of friends).


The recent articles and TV news items should make more parents aware of potential problems, so they teach their children to be safe on the net. I would think that, until a child shows responsibility, internet use should be confined to a common area where parents can monitor activities and used only when a responsible person is nearby. As the child grows older and understands the potential dangers of internet usage (from downloading adware to giving out personal information), then parents may consider having a computer in the child's room.
Regards,
John

Maybe so. But... what sort of friends are kids letting in?
This applies to anyone that a member invites as a friend.

So... A child joins MySpace, then fakes his/her age. Or not.
It may not even matter.
If the "friend" is faking his/her age.

Then looks around for new friends, (not just their real personal friends from school etc.)
Then sends out "invitations" to whom ever they wish.
If the invitee accepts the "friendship" then they are added.
And I know first hand, that a child could then have added a "friend(s)"
that he/she should in no way be associating with.

While my parents never searched my room, my dad constantly looked through history files and web sites that I visited. And he let me know that he did that!!! I had no privacy on the family computer. I stopped complaining once I realized my parents were trying to protect me, and make sure I didn't see something I wasn't suposed to. I didn't get my own computer until I entered college. I acctually felt better knowing that my parents loved me sooo much that they would go to whatever lengths to keep me safe.

So, Heritic Monkey, I didn't mind the loss of privacy, because I knew that my parents cared.

rms4evr

My parents weren't that strict with what i did on the internet, but they still cared about me. Up until middle school, we had AOL, and they restricted what sites i could access.

Around 7th grade, they removed the parental guidance thing. It's called trust. They knew i knew what i should and shouldn't be looking at or doing. They taught me well enough to know not to be stupid online. I turned out perfectly fine, with no bad experiences online (well, aside from having to use AOL...)

Is it not enough to TEACH your kids what they should or shouldn't be doing? Don't get me wrong, i'm all for supervision on-line, but not to the point of being "nazi-ish" about it. Keylogging everything they type and standing over their shoulder whenever they're near the box seems a bit of an overkill. Imagine the US government treating every american citizen just like that.... You wouldn't be too happy, would you? But, afterall, it's the governments responsibility to keep us safe...

So, what age is "appropriate" for kids to be free to do what they want without the glaring eyes of the parent?

quote;So, what age is "appropriate" for kids to be free to do what they want without the glaring eyes of the parent?' unquote

When they are out working,providing for themselves and taking responsibility for all their actions.

This is simply beginning to become a pointless argument about how different people feel about raising their children. Honestly, I think this subject should just fly away and be forgotten.

There is no particularly right or wrong way to raise your children. Every parent has their own way of disciplining, and teaching their children. My view is that, as long as you are doing everything you can to make you feel that you are raising your children correctly, then you are succeeding at doing so.

When they are 18 and living in there own home. Until then My house, My rules including when and how they come and go.
They are always welcome to live with me. If they do they will follow My rules or move out. Once of legal age they can do as they wish, include moving out if they don't like the conditions. Until then, they will suck it up and follow the rules.