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Abacus 7
I know some will think this contrversial, but effort needs to be recognised?

Few Incidents have happened, certainly no major ones.

The Opening Ceromany is best described as Awesome!

China is enjoying the Attention and has given it's all to try to respond to it.

At this time they have 35 Gold Medals, against USA 19, Australia 11.

I say good on them for trying.

What are your thoughts?

in_love.gif
groovicus
Let's see.......

A journalist arrested because they were filming/photographing a protest........
Protestors being arrested for applying for permits, even though they were following state orders that would allow them to protest, as long as they had a permit, and it was in a designated area.......
Athletes having their visa revoked because of involvement with Team Darfur.......
Internet access to some sites blocked, although it was promised that journalists would have open access.....
Installation of monitoring equipment in hotels........

QUOTE
The Opening Ceromany is best described as Awesome!

Which part did you like the best... the one where the little girl lip-synced, or the computer generated fireworks? Actually, I think the opening ceremony is a wonderful metaphor for everything else; it's all just smoke and mirrors. smile.gif

KingOfIdiocy
Well, groovicus has already said pratically everything. As for anything good so far which wasn't fake, I will repeat a quote I made on Thoughtvent.

QUOTE
They run as if the very whips of their masters were behind them.


Legolas, Lord of the Rings


I may also include the Chinese athletes in this.
m0le
Yes, China's human rights record isn't to be brushed under the carpet because they are hosting the Olympics.

For shame, abacus.

Unless you were just inviting debate - in which case bravo! smile.gif

Edit: btw, GB are above Australia's 11 with 12
arcman
Haha, yeah, lookit the pretty pretty opening ceremonies. We hope this distracts you from the fact that we support mass genocide both financially and in terms of policy.

China's government is despicable in many, many different ways, and that they were chosen to host the games is an absolute travesty.
JohnWho
QUOTE(groovicus @ Aug 18 2008, 02:25 PM) *
it's all just smoke and mirrors.


Um, I had trouble seeing the mirrors with all the smoke and smog.

But they probably were there.

laugh.gif
MaraM
Not that I suppose most of the athletes had any choice in the matter, but most started their training at a horribly young age and the pressure put on them to success and 'do their Country' proud must be horrendous.

At the risk of sounding like a 'softy', I personally give them credit for the hard, hard work and ability to win so many medals. (Figure each of them didn't ask to be born in China - and are simply making the best they can of their lives).

Politics is entirely another matter - nothing on earth could convince me that China is a Country I'd want to live in! In fact, yes, I agree "China is coming of age" and we'd perhaps better what our backsides in the future. Scary thought. (The individual Chinese person doesn't scare me - rather, it's the government and the mass of citizens as a group quickly running out of land, etc).
KingOfIdiocy
QUOTE
Unless you were just inviting debate


Well, not much debate so far, mainly one sided.

QUOTE
At the risk of sounding like a 'softy', I personally give them credit for the hard, hard work and ability to win so many medals.


Anyone who wins honestly deserves credit.

QUOTE
The individual Chinese person doesn't scare me - rather, it's the government and the mass of citizens as a group quickly running out of land.


I don't think the Chinese will start invading all its neighbours if they run out of land. I think they may do something which is just as bad.
woodyblade
I have to say this, cough 14 Gold Medals cough 3rd in Medals Table ahead of Australia and Germany tongue.gif laugh.gif.

But to the real point of the thread There was someone killed over there as well, It was a Coach here is the story - http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/0...rder/index.html

As well as the Distraction the other week with Russia pummeling Georgian Towns - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7550804.stm

So it wasn't all good, but the part about China Running out of Land, I'm not quite sure what they would do really if they tried taking anything they would just get Nuclear Bombs and Ballistic Missiles fired at them. Britain alone has a Nuclear Sub which can fire Missles about 15,000-16,000km only 2 European Countries have Nuclear Capability in terms on Missles and Bombs, France and Britain also Russia if you can count them as Europe which I don't.

Well that's my opinion anyway.
jgweed
Once can hope that the Olympics signals a change for the better in China's foreign relations, and even more so in its political policy. It is indicative of how individuals are thought of (not only by the Nuremberg rally type opening ceremony of masses of humanity performing with the precision of automatons) by the extremes the government had to go to clean the air in the capital, and the time the government spent in teaching its citizens how to stand in line for the subway.
Not to mention that out in the countryside and away from international reporters, farmers are rioting because of their poverty and horrible living conditions.
woodyblade
Yes hopefully China will change it's ways because of the Olympics, they have shown they can hold a World Event and proved they can sort out a Problem that other Countries dislike in terms of The Air Quality you mentioned.

This has proved to the World they can do something Great and would be good if they did improve relations but I think it would be a bit till that happens.
arcman
Hahaha, no. China are not even close to attempting reforms of their vast government corruptions and abuses.
China committed further human rights violations in preparation for the Olympics.
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/china/beijing08/evictions.htm
QUOTE
Forced evictions
“In the middle of the night, while they were sleeping, people came in and broke up the courtyard wall. There were lots of people living there together in this building, they had a shop, it was really dangerous, there were still people living there.”
—“Zhang,” friend of a forcibly evicted Beijing family

China’s rapid urban development, fueled in Beijing by preparations for the 2008 Olympics, is leading to the eviction of homeowners and tenants in violation of Chinese law and international standards on the right to housing. In many cities, Chinese local authorities and developers are forcibly evicting hundreds of thousands of homeowners and tenants who have little legal recourse. Evicted residents left with few avenues of redress have increasingly taken to the streets to protest, where they have met police repression.

Developers often work with local government officials to request and implement forced evictions. Widespread corruption can lead Communist Party officials to favor the interests of developers over those of residents. Courts often refuse to hear eviction cases because of pressure by local officials. As a result, people who challenge their eviction cannot properly pursue their claims through arbitration or in court. Where residents do receive compensation, it is often inadequate. Human Rights Watch said that national legal reforms have had minimal impact in reversing this situation.
It honestly would not surprise me that it would require (another) revolution to turn China around.
Abacus 7
Sorry to all, I had a few Problems with Kids?

They are fine now, I just have to handle the new Pup?

After Three days, Pup is sleeping alongside Pixie. (Big Momma) She is my Dog?
Pixie is 8 year old? That is almost 56? in Human terms?

It makes my Heart so Glad to see Pups and Big Mommas sleep together.

What a wonderful thing?

As for the Chinese? They are showing some thing that needs to be recocnized?

Funny enough, first time since 1988 The GB, (Poms) are actually beating the Aussies.

That realy makes this a Special thing to me.

I do not have a bad bone in my Body toward anyone!

Can I Say this?

It has been a Fair Debate, admitted one sided, but a fair Debate!

in_love.gif
Abacus 7
It honestly would not surprise me that it would require (another) revolution to turn China around.



Why do you think it has not already happened?

China has so many US Dollars to spend now?

They Love it.

Chinese people as you know are just nice people, not Terrorists, never have been, never will be!
They blend into our Cultures in a very Nice way.

in_love.gif
woodyblade
Yes the Chinese are nice people it is just their Government or Leaders really that have a problem, Also I like theirs and Japan's Culture as well. The Buildings, Martial Arts and Sports really interest me. Mainly the Buildings and Martial Arts.

Also I've always wondered why you Aussies always call us Poms?
KingOfIdiocy
QUOTE
Also I've always wondered why you Aussies always call us Poms?


Poms is the plural, pome is the singular.

P=Prisoner

O=Of

M=Mother

E=England


There are alternatives, but this is what an Australian guy told me.

Here is more detail: - Wiki - Pommy
Abacus 7
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 22 2008, 03:39 AM) *
Also I've always wondered why you Aussies always call us Poms?


QUOTE
pom, pommy, pommie
noun:- A person from England, probably derived from Prisoner Of Mother England.


http://www.aussieslang.com/Search/qsearch.asp

wacko.gif
woodyblade
Ok so now I know smile.gif.

We don't call you particularly anything really, the only thing I've ever heard is "Colonials" obviously in terms of you being a former Colony.

But also you might have heard this before but it still amazes me how the Dutch never found your Country they were there ages before us, they found Tasmania and New Zealand but never found you lot, Bad Luck for you lot you get beaten at Rugby now laugh.gif, you wouldn't have with the Dutch.
Abacus 7
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 22 2008, 10:24 PM) *
Ok so now I know smile.gif.

We don't call you particularly anything really, the only thing I've ever heard is "Colonials" obviously in terms of you being a former Colony.

But also you might have heard this before but it still amazes me how the Dutch never found your Country they were there ages before us, they found Tasmania and New Zealand but never found you lot, Bad Luck for you lot you get beaten at Rugby now laugh.gif, you wouldn't have with the Dutch.


The Dutch actually found Australia, but in the wrong places in 1600s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Janszoon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_Hartog

In relation to your Rugby jibe.

British Paints have a product called Pointings Whitewash, refering to Cricket.

It is nice to see the Poms get their moment of Glory again against the Aussies after 20 years in the Olympics. We don't mind, we are quite humble, until 2012.

BTW we play off against the Dutch for the Bronze in Men's Hockey.

Back on Topic,

QUOTE
Rank Country Gold Silver Bronze Total Latest medal
1st China 47 17 26 90 Bronze: Volleyball
2nd United States 31 36 36 103 Gold: Athletics
3rd Great Britain 18 13 13 44 Bronze: Boxing
4th Russian Federation 17 18 23 58 Bronze: Cycling Mountain Bike
5th Germany 15 9 13 37 Gold: Cycling Mountain Bike
6th Australia 12 14 16 42 Gold: Athletics
7th South Korea 11 10 7 28 Bronze: Boxing
8th Japan 9 6 10 25 Bronze: Athletics
9th Italy 7 8 10 25 Silver: Taekwondo
10th Netherlands 7 5 4 16 Gold: Hockey

11th Jamaica 6 3 1 10 Gold: Athletics
12th France 5 13 16 34 Bronze: Taekwondo
13th Ukraine 5 4 12 21 Bronze: Athletics
14th Spain 4 6 2 12 Silver: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
15th Belarus 4 4 8 16 Silver: Athletics
16th Romania 4 1 3 8 Gold: Gymnastics Artistic
17th Canada 3 8 6 17 Silver: Taekwondo
18th Poland 3 5 1 9 Silver: Cycling Mountain Bike
19th Czech Republic 3 3 0 6 Gold: Athletics
20th Slovakia 3 2 1 6 Silver: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater

21st New Zealand 3 1 5 9 Gold: Sailing



in_love.gif
KingOfIdiocy
QUOTE
we are quite humble


Well, maybe most. Definetaly not David Campese though.

QUOTE
It is nice to see the Poms get their moment of Glory again against the Aussies after 20 years in the Olympics.


It might not be that easy, with GB having home advantage. This has certainly helped the Chinese.
Abacus 7
QUOTE(KingOfIdiocy @ Aug 23 2008, 05:08 PM) *
QUOTE
we are quite humble


Well, maybe most. Definetaly not David Campese though.

QUOTE
It is nice to see the Poms get their moment of Glory again against the Aussies after 20 years in the Olympics.


It might not be that easy, with GB having home advantage. This has certainly helped the Chinese.


He used to get up my nose, Mate, goose stepping, was his favourite trick.

Aussies just go for it. This year we missed out on some of what we normally do well..

Our youngsters are right up there in the World, 2012 they will be Adults.

New Ball Game then.

China has the same strategy as Australia. They are using Coaches from all over the World to Blood the Kids into it. (Not meant in a nasty way) Kids Learn better at a real early age.

No suggestion of force to Kids. My Daughter was Brilliant in Running? At age 11 and 12, she was the Anchor to win back to back Gold Medals for the 4x100m Relay in a serious Compitition. Happy to say I was their Coach. Only thing I drummed into them was, "Do your Best and don't fumble that Baton. First year there was a Fumble of the Baton, on second stage, but they recovered. When the Baton got to my Girl, they where well behind. She just lifted and blitzed the Field.

In Swimming she was the same, just Gifted.

That is the children that should be encouraged.

If the World stopped making Bombs and Weapons, concentrated on our Kids, we would all be better off.

I honestly think China is stepping up to Claim a Place in the World.

Their Government may not be what we all want, but? there is no Cold War with China.

China is actually a close Friend to many Nations including USA.


thumbup.gif
woodyblade
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 23 2008, 07:28 AM) *
The Dutch actually found Australia, but in the wrong places in 1600s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Janszoon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_Hartog


Ok I stand corrected but they still didn't own you and also technically if you think about it your Flag includes ours for 25% of your Flag so technically 25% of your Medals are ours as well as New Zealand smile.gif.

QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 23 2008, 07:28 AM) *
In relation to your Rugby jibe.
British Paints have a product called Pointings Whitewash, refering to Cricket.
It is nice to see the Poms get their moment of Glory again against the Aussies after 20 years in the Olympics. We don't mind, we are quite humble, until 2012.


laugh.gif Very Poor Paint Term.

I agree with KingOfIdiocy, we will have Home Advantage so if we continue to invest in our Sports you will be beaten again smile.gif.

QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 23 2008, 07:28 AM) *
BTW we play off against the Dutch for the Bronze in Men's Hockey.


I didn't say the Dutch were rubbish at everything, they would flatten us in Football.

Also you might as well get used to that Medal Table because you'll be below us in 4 years time as well, maybe if were lucky we'll beat you in the Cricket as well smile.gif.
Abacus 7
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 23 2008, 09:31 PM) *
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 23 2008, 07:28 AM) *
The Dutch actually found Australia, but in the wrong places in 1600s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Janszoon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_Hartog


Ok I stand corrected but they still didn't own you and also technically if you think about it your Flag includes ours for 25% of your Flag so technically 25% of your Medals are ours as well as New Zealand smile.gif.

QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 23 2008, 07:28 AM) *
In relation to your Rugby jibe.
British Paints have a product called Pointings Whitewash, refering to Cricket.
It is nice to see the Poms get their moment of Glory again against the Aussies after 20 years in the Olympics. We don't mind, we are quite humble, until 2012.


laugh.gif Very Poor Paint Term.

I agree with KingOfIdiocy, we will have Home Advantage so if we continue to invest in our Sports you will be beaten again smile.gif.

QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 23 2008, 07:28 AM) *
BTW we play off against the Dutch for the Bronze in Men's Hockey.


I didn't say the Dutch were rubbish at everything, they would flatten us in Football.

Also you might as well get used to that Medal Table because you'll be below us in 4 years time as well, maybe if were lucky we'll beat you in the Cricket as well smile.gif.


I can see quite a close Aussie/Pom Relationship shaping up here. You take it, I take it, both with a pinch of salt, but very Nice about it.

Nice people are like that.

Next Medal Table will be totally different, I think.

The rest of the World is catching up. Just look at some of the Events that used to be Dominated by single Countries? Magic to see! That is where China can be Proud.

Each and every Country has different Climates, Polutition and many other things, that is what makes the Olympics.

Breaking News?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/olympics/article.aspx?id=619750

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/olympics/article.aspx?id=619854

Funny other Aussies are stepping up.



thumbup.gif
woodyblade
I could have predicted Russia would go ahead of us they always do well in the last few days, The Aussies have left it way too late there is only 1 Event tomorrow The Mens Marathon I think.

Oh well we still got another Medal in the Kayaking Event as well smile.gif.
dark messenger
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 23 2008, 12:31 PM) *
Ok I stand corrected but they still didn't own you and also technically if you think about it your Flag includes ours for 25% of your Flag so technically 25% of your Medals are ours as well as New Zealand smile.gif.



Nooo us kiwis are not sharing our medals! The aussies can though :D

About groovicus saying about computer generated fireworks, I dont mind, they still looked good?
Abacus 7
Latest update!

QUOTE
Rank Country Gold Silver Bronze Total Latest medal
1st China 48 17 27 92 Gold: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
2nd United States 31 36 36 103 Gold: Athletics
3rd Russian Federation 19 20 23 62 Silver: Handball
4th Great Britain 18 13 14 45 Bronze: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
5th Germany 15 10 15 40 Bronze: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
6th Australia 13 14 17 44 Bronze: Hockey
7th South Korea 11 10 8 29 Bronze: Handball
8th Japan 9 6 10 25 Bronze: Athletics
9th Italy 7 9 10 26 Silver: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
10th Ukraine 7 5 14 26 Silver: Athletics

11th Netherlands 7 5 4 16 Gold: Hockey
12th France 6 15 17 38 Silver: Boxing
13th Jamaica 6 3 1 10 Gold: Athletics
14th Spain 5 8 2 15 Gold: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
15th Belarus 4 4 9 17 Bronze: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
16th Kenya 4 4 3 11 Gold: Athletics
17th Romania 4 1 3 8 Gold: Gymnastics Artistic
18th Canada 3 9 6 18 Silver: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
19th Poland 3 6 1 10 Silver: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
20th Czech Republic 3 3 0 6 Gold: Athletics

21st Slovakia 3 2 1 6 Silver: Canoe-Kayak Flatwater
22nd New Zealand 3 1 5 9 Gold: Sailing


We beat the Dutch in Hockey.

BTW, never forget the Kiwis are our Mates!

We Love to do Battle, but are Mates.

mad.gif
dark messenger
Against the poms? anytime hehehe
Abacus 7
You better watch out for Arte, Mate!

wacko.gif
woodyblade
Oh well here is the Medals earned at both the Summer and Winter Olympics in our Countries History.
Doesn't Include Current Olmypics - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olym...mes_medal_count

Who's the Daddy smile.gif.

Great Britain - 689 Medals
25 Summer Olympics - Gold (188), Silver (242), Bronze (238)
20 Winter Olympics - Gold (8), Silver (3), Bronze (10)

Australia - 392 Medals
23 Summer Olympics - Gold (117), Silver (122), Bronze (147)
16 Winter Olympics - Gold (3) Silver (0), Bronze (3)

If you take into account 25% of your Medals are ours then we basically have another 100 laugh.gif.
I love taking the Mick, Good Banter smile.gif.
Abacus 7
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 23 2008, 10:59 PM) *
Oh well here is the Medals earned at both the Summer and Winter Olympics in our Countries History.
Doesn't Include Current Olmypics - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olym...mes_medal_count

Who's the Daddy smile.gif.

Great Britain - 689 Medals
25 Summer Olympics - Gold (188), Silver (242), Bronze (238)
20 Winter Olympics - Gold (8), Silver (3), Bronze (10)

Australia - 392 Medals
23 Summer Olympics - Gold (117), Silver (122), Bronze (147)
16 Winter Olympics - Gold (3) Silver (0), Bronze (3)

If you take into account 25% of your Medals are ours then we basically have another 100 laugh.gif.
I love taking the Mick, Good Banter smile.gif.



You should read the History of the "Ashes" Mate?

Beside that, getting back to Topic, I have been informed that many of China's winning Medalists have donated their Money to other Countries to encourage them. No Link, but I believe it True. That is a Wonderful Olympic Spirit.

No matter what we think of the Government of China, the Chinese are still Chinese. Not one of them are likely to Hurt the World, unless someone Attacks China.

From Korea.

QUOTE
Chinese intervention
China warned American leaders through neutral diplomats that it would intervene to protect its national security. Truman regarded the warnings as “a bald attempt to blackmail the U.N.” and did not take it seriously.[44] The Chinese Government argued that in making Japan its main war base in the Far East, launching an invasion against Korea and the Chinese province of Taiwan, and carrying out active intervention in other countries in Asia, the United States was building up a military encirclement of China. [45][verification needed] The Chinese Government reported that the United States violated Chinese airspace, bombing peaceful towns and villages.[citation needed]

On October 15, 1950, Truman went to Wake Island for a short, highly publicized meeting with MacArthur. MacArthur, saying he was speculating, saw little risk.[citation needed] MacArthur explained that the Chinese had lost their window of opportunity to help North Korea's invasion. He estimated the Chinese had 300,000 soldiers in Manchuria, with between 100,000-125,000 men along the Yalu; half could be brought across the Yalu. But the Chinese had no air force; hence, “if the Chinese tried to get down to Pyongyang, there would be the greatest slaughter.”[42][46] MacArthur assumed that Chinese wished to avoid heavy casualties.[citation needed]


U.S. soldiers fire a 105 mm howitzer in an indirect fire mission on the Korean battle line, near Uirson in August 1950.On October 8, 1950, the day after American troops crossed the 38th parallel, Chairman Mao Zedong issued the order to assemble the Chinese People's Volunteer Army. Seventy percent of the members of the PVA were Chinese regulars from the Chinese People's Liberation Army. Mao ordered the army to move to the Yalu River, ready to cross.[citation needed] Mao sought Soviet aid and saw intervention as essentially defensive: “If we allow the U.S. to occupy all of Korea… we must be prepared for the U.S. to declare… war with China,” he told Stalin. Premier Zhou Enlai was sent to Moscow to add force to Mao's cabled arguments. Mao delayed while waiting for substantial Soviet help, postponing the planned attack from October 13 to October 19. However, Soviet assistance was limited to providing air support no nearer than sixty miles (100 km) from the battlefront. The Soviet MiG-15s in PRC colors did pose a serious challenge to UN pilots. In one area nicknamed “MiG Alley” by UN forces, they held local air superiority against the American-made Lockheed F-80 Shooting Stars until the newer North American F-86 Sabres were deployed. The Chinese were angry at the limited extent of Soviet involvement, having assumed that they had been promised full scale air support.[citation needed]

The Chinese made contact with American troops on November 1, 1950. Thousands of Chinese had attacked from the north, northwest, and west against scattered U.S. and South Korean (Republic of Korea or ROK) units moving deep into North Korea. The Chinese seemed to come out of nowhere as they swarmed around the flanks and over the defensive positions of the surprised United Nations (UN) troops.[47]

The Chinese march and bivouac discipline also minimized any possible detection. In a well-documented instance, a Chinese army of three divisions marched on foot from An-tung in Manchuria, on the north side of the Yalu River, 286 miles (460 km) to its assembly area in North Korea, in the combat zone, in a period ranging from 16 to 19 days. One division of this army, marching at night over circuitous mountain roads, averaged 18 miles (29 km) per day for 18 days. The day's march began after dark at 19:00 and ended at 03:00 the next morning. Defense measures against aircraft were to be completed before 05:30. Every man, animal, and piece of equipment were to be concealed and camouflaged. During daylight, bivouac scouting parties moved ahead to select the next day's bivouac area. When Chinese units were compelled for any reason to march by day, they were under standing orders for every man to stop in his tracks and remain motionless if aircraft appeared overhead. Officers were empowered to shoot any man who violated this order.[24]


Map of the Battle of Chosin ReservoirIn late November, the Chinese struck in the west, along the Chongchon River, and completely overran several South Korean divisions and successfully landed a heavy blow to the flank of the remaining UN forces. The ensuing defeat of the U.S. Eighth Army resulted in the longest retreat of any American military unit in history.[48] In the east, at the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, a 30,000 man unit from the U.S. 7th Infantry Division and U.S. Marine Corps was also unprepared for the Chinese tactics and was soon surrounded, though they eventually managed to escape the encirclement, albeit with over 15,000 casualties, after inflicting heavy[specify] casualties on six Chinese divisions.[49]

While the Chinese soldiers initially lacked heavy fire support and light infantry weapons, their tactics quickly adapted to this disadvantage, as explained by Bevin Alexander in his book How Wars Are Won:

"The usual method was to infiltrate small units, from a platoon of fifty men to a company of 200, split into separate detachments. While one team cut off the escape route of the Americans, the others struck both the front and the flanks in concerted assaults. The attacks continued on all sides until the defenders were destroyed or forced to withdraw. The Chinese then crept forward to the open flank of the next platoon position, and repeated the tactics."
Roy Appleman further clarified the initial Chinese tactics as:

"In the First Phase Offensive, highly skilled enemy light infantry troops had carried out the Chinese attacks, generally unaided by any weapons larger than mortars. Their attacks had demonstrated that the Chinese were well-trained disciplined fire fighters, and particularly adept at night fighting. They were masters of the art of camouflage. Their patrols were remarkably successful in locating the positions of the UN forces. They planned their attacks to get in the rear of these forces, cut them off from their escape and supply roads, and then send in frontal and flanking attacks to precipitate the battle. They also employed a tactic which they termed Hachi Shiki, which was a V-formation into which they allowed enemy forces to move; the sides of the V then closed around their enemy while another force moved below the mouth of the V to engage any forces attempting to relieve the trapped unit. Such were the tactics the Chinese used with great success at Onjong, Unsan, and Ch'osan but with only partial success at Pakch'on and the Ch'ongch'on bridgehead."[24]
The U.S. forces in northeast Korea, who had rushed forward with great speed only a few months earlier, were forced to race southwards with even greater speed and form a defensive perimeter around the port city of Hungnam, where a major evacuation was carried out in late December 1950. Facing complete defeat and surrender, 193 shiploads of American men and material were evacuated from Hungnam Harbor, and about 105,000 soldiers, 98,000 civilians, 17,500 vehicles, and 350,000 tons of supplies were shipped to Pusan in orderly fashion. As they left, the American forces blew up large portions of the city to deny its use to the communists, depriving many Korean civilians of shelter during the winter.[42][50]


Fighting across the 38th Parallel (early 1951)

B-26 Invaders bomb supply warehouses in Wonsan, North Korea, 1951.In January 1951, the Chinese and North Korean forces struck again in their 3rd Phase Offensive (also known as the Chinese Winter Offensive). The Chinese repeated their previous tactics of mostly night attacks, with a stealthy approach from positions some distance from the front, followed by a rush with overwhelming numbers, and using trumpets or gongs both for communication and to disorient their foes. Against this the UN forces had no remedy, and their resistance crumbled; they retreated rapidly to the south (referred to by UN forces as the “bug-out”). Seoul was abandoned and was captured by communist forces on January 4, 1951.

To add to the Eighth Army's difficulties, General Walker was killed in an accident. He was replaced by a World War II airborne veteran, Lieutenant-General Matthew Ridgway, who took immediate steps to raise the morale and fighting spirit of the battered Eighth Army, which had fallen to low levels during its retreat. Nevertheless, the situation was so grim that MacArthur mentioned the use of atomic weapons against China, much to the alarm of America's allies.[citation needed]

UN forces continued to retreat until they had reached a line south of Suwon in the west and Wonju in the center, and north of Samchok in the east, where the front stabilized. The People's Volunteer Army had outrun its supply line and was forced to recoil. The Chinese could not go beyond Seoul because they were at the end of their logistics supply line[citation needed] — all food and ammunition had to be carried at night on foot or bicycle from the Yalu River.


We don't really want to play with them again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
in_love.gif
woodyblade
Yes I have read the Ashes history we do very bad sad.gif, but otherwise you get beaten in everything else smile.gif.

Anyway, It seems the Chinese Government paint a Bad Image, It has improved over the Olympics although Will this last or Will they go back to their Old ways I don't know.

Interesting the Korean War Caption you put in, I'll just say they outnumber the Whole of the EU with the amount of Troops they have. The EU has around 6 million Troops the Chinese about 6.5 million (These figures include Reserves and Paramilitary) and only France and the UK have Nuclear Weapons available to them in Europe.

Its funny how other Countries seem to increase there Defense Budget while the UK seems to decrease we only spend about 2% of our Countries income on our army now it used to be around 7-8% in the year I was born (1991), I wish the UK would put it back to 5% minimum or more if they did we would have 1-1.5 million Troops easy and a Bigger Navy and Airforce.
ryan_w_quick
i just think it is so stupid that you don't have to be born in the country you play for, or be a citizen, or even live there. so really, there is never going to be chances for the little countries. all the big countries just steal their athletes
Abacus 7
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 25 2008, 11:59 PM) *
i just think it is so stupid that you don't have to be born in the country you play for, or be a citizen, or even live there. so really, there is never going to be chances for the little countries. all the big countries just steal their athletes


Actually that was my point for some Chinese Medalists Donating their Winnings?

That is to let little Countries come up there.

Magic Gesture from Chinese people, not Government.

in_love.gif
ryan_w_quick
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 10:12 AM) *
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 25 2008, 11:59 PM) *
i just think it is so stupid that you don't have to be born in the country you play for, or be a citizen, or even live there. so really, there is never going to be chances for the little countries. all the big countries just steal their athletes


Actually that was my point for some Chinese Medalists Donating their Winnings?

That is to let little Countries come up there.

Magic Gesture from Chinese people, not Government.

in_love.gif



its just that i find it completely impossible to get into the whole country vs country and patriotism thing. since if i want to cheer on the usa in ping pong, that means im really cheering on some elitist chinese pigs
Abacus 7
Only the Chinese would ever consider that one.

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Abacus 7
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 26 2008, 12:13 AM) *
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 10:12 AM) *
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 25 2008, 11:59 PM) *
i just think it is so stupid that you don't have to be born in the country you play for, or be a citizen, or even live there. so really, there is never going to be chances for the little countries. all the big countries just steal their athletes


Actually that was my point for some Chinese Medalists Donating their Winnings?

That is to let little Countries come up there.

Magic Gesture from Chinese people, not Government.

in_love.gif



its just that i find it completely impossible to get into the whole country vs country and patriotism thing. since if i want to cheer on the usa in ping pong, that means im really cheering on some elitist chinese pigs


You lost the Plot there, Mate.

The Person was had to be an American Citizen to compete at the Games.

All Countries have Chinese (Original) competing for them.

Just part of Life, more so now!

in_love.gif
Abacus 7
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 25 2008, 11:31 PM) *
Yes I have read the Ashes history we do very bad sad.gif, but otherwise you get beaten in everything else smile.gif.

Anyway, It seems the Chinese Government paint a Bad Image, It has improved over the Olympics although Will this last or Will they go back to their Old ways I don't know.

Interesting the Korean War Caption you put in, I'll just say they outnumber the Whole of the EU with the amount of Troops they have. The EU has around 6 million Troops the Chinese about 6.5 million (These figures include Reserves and Paramilitary) and only France and the UK have Nuclear Weapons available to them in Europe.

Its funny how other Countries seem to increase there Defense Budget while the UK seems to decrease we only spend about 2% of our Countries income on our army now it used to be around 7-8% in the year I was born (1991), I wish the UK would put it back to 5% minimum or more if they did we would have 1-1.5 million Troops easy and a Bigger Navy and Airforce.


The reality is China can generate 2 million more from Peasents at an instant. Like Korea they just rose up with what they had. They had Picks and Shovels. Once they killed they took over the weapons.

I am serious.

wacko.gif
Abacus 7
No one wants to see that again, Mate!

The only thing that saved UN Forces was that their Supply Line ran out!

wacko.gif

Abacus 7
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 26 2008, 12:13 AM) *
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 10:12 AM) *
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 25 2008, 11:59 PM) *
i just think it is so stupid that you don't have to be born in the country you play for, or be a citizen, or even live there. so really, there is never going to be chances for the little countries. all the big countries just steal their athletes


Actually that was my point for some Chinese Medalists Donating their Winnings?

That is to let little Countries come up there.

Magic Gesture from Chinese people, not Government.

in_love.gif



its just that i find it completely impossible to get into the whole country vs country and patriotism thing. since if i want to cheer on the usa in ping pong, that means im really cheering on some elitist chinese pigs


Sorry? I am Offended!

Did you call me a Pig? or someone else that doesnt need to be called that?

Noone calls you a Pig?

I would ask you to retract that comment, Please?

mad.gif
woodyblade
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 03:37 PM) *
No one wants to see that again, Mate!

The only thing that saved UN Forces was that their Supply Line ran out!

wacko.gif


God a lot of comments came in here.

What was this comment about above?
ryan_w_quick
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 10:21 AM) *
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 26 2008, 12:13 AM) *
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 10:12 AM) *
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 25 2008, 11:59 PM) *
i just think it is so stupid that you don't have to be born in the country you play for, or be a citizen, or even live there. so really, there is never going to be chances for the little countries. all the big countries just steal their athletes


Actually that was my point for some Chinese Medalists Donating their Winnings?

That is to let little Countries come up there.

Magic Gesture from Chinese people, not Government.

in_love.gif



its just that i find it completely impossible to get into the whole country vs country and patriotism thing. since if i want to cheer on the usa in ping pong, that means im really cheering on some elitist chinese pigs


You lost the Plot there, Mate.

The Person was had to be an American Citizen to compete at the Games.

All Countries have Chinese (Original) competing for them.

Just part of Life, more so now!

in_love.gif


sorry but you are wrong. there is an american woman playing on the russian basketball team. all she has is a valid passport to russia. next?
ryan_w_quick
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 10:52 AM) *
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 26 2008, 12:13 AM) *
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 10:12 AM) *
QUOTE(ryan_w_quick @ Aug 25 2008, 11:59 PM) *
i just think it is so stupid that you don't have to be born in the country you play for, or be a citizen, or even live there. so really, there is never going to be chances for the little countries. all the big countries just steal their athletes


Actually that was my point for some Chinese Medalists Donating their Winnings?

That is to let little Countries come up there.

Magic Gesture from Chinese people, not Government.

in_love.gif



its just that i find it completely impossible to get into the whole country vs country and patriotism thing. since if i want to cheer on the usa in ping pong, that means im really cheering on some elitist chinese pigs


Sorry? I am Offended!

Did you call me a Pig? or someone else that doesnt need to be called that?

Noone calls you a Pig?

I would ask you to retract that comment, Please?

mad.gif



no. you are only a pig if you aren't good enough, or you don't love your country enough, that you will go play for another country in the olympics but still not renounce your citizenship. i'm pretty sure that if the world can threaten to boycot the olympix, i should be allowed to call the chinese playing for america PIGS
MaraM
Eep, I seem to have lost the 'thread' of the thoughts here?

For, was it intended to mean that if you don't win, you "aren't good enough", hence "you're a pig"?

Have often wondered about the seemingly 'odd' system of a citizen from one Country representing another Country during the Olympics myself. It does seem strange and do wonder what the reasoning behind it is.

But that said, I wonder how the above reasoning works because, if a Chinese person playing for America equals the term "pig", surely wouldn't that make all of America "pigs" for allowing it?
woodyblade
There is nothing wrong if they are Chinese in a American team, think about it America is made up of many different nations people, Italian, Japanese, German, French, Spanish, British, Eastern Europeans, Mexican, Various African Countries all are people who make up the 300 million People living in the US if it wasn't for those People USA wouldn't be the Country it is today.

It may only have 60-75 Million who actually are American by right from actually always having the Family born there, meaning USA would have a population equivalent to the UK or Germany.

To be a Citizen of a Country you live in that Country for a certain amount of years, in Europe it is anything from 3-10 Years to gain Citizenship. 5 years in the UK, 10 in Greece and 3 in Belgium to name just a few.

But also some countries like Brazil and Portugal allow People who have either Citizenship to gain the opposite countries Citizenship because of speaking Portuguese in a Shorter Time, this is also the Same with Spanish speaking People meaning every other Country in South America apart from Brazil.

The countries set Citizenship Years for a reason so the people get used to the day to day life of the Country, this is to prove they like and love the country enough to adopt it as their own, people need no more proof than a person having lived there for years.

Now this thread has gone way off point, although debate is debate it can lead to anything.

The Kenyan who won the Men's Marathon Yesterday had actually lived in Japan for like 6-7 years since he was 14 till now which he is 21 or 22 and he still ran for Kenya and won them a Gold Medal, He kept to his roots.

Not everyone has to that is why there is Freedom of Movement between Countries and you are allowed to live in different Countries, if you don't like it then don't watch the Olympics because it will be in the UK next. You have your Opinion but your not thinking your words through, try saying sorry and rewording your posts because it isn't Polite Debate like it should be. As the Forum is called it is the Speak Easy people can speak about Controversial Topics to a certain limit and as the Blue writing in the Banner above says and I Quote

QUOTE
This section is for polite and thoughtful debate on potentially controversial topics. There will be no flaming, swearing, or cursing. Anyone not following these simple rules will, without notice, have their posts immediately removed.


The part in Bold is what you should be looking at, It is for Polite and Thoughtful Debate your posts are neither. Hopefully you will retract the Comments because you aren't helping with the Debate on hand.

China has held a Great Olympics and has certainly improved in my Eyes and as I said whether it will stay or not remains to be seen.
Abacus 7
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 26 2008, 01:49 AM) *
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 03:37 PM) *
No one wants to see that again, Mate!

The only thing that saved UN Forces was that their Supply Line ran out!

wacko.gif


God a lot of comments came in here.

What was this comment about above?


From my Post on Korea?

QUOTE
The People's Volunteer Army had outrun its supply line and was forced to recoil. The Chinese could not go beyond Seoul because they were at the end of their logistics supply line[citation needed] — all food and ammunition had to be carried at night on foot or bicycle from the Yalu River.


thumbup2.gif
Abacus 7
QUOTE(m0le @ Aug 19 2008, 09:21 AM) *
Yes, China's human rights record isn't to be brushed under the carpet because they are hosting the Olympics.

For shame, abacus.

Unless you were just inviting debate - in which case bravo! smile.gif

Edit: btw, GB are above Australia's 11 with 12


The Debate was quite a Nice one, except for a few points, soon sorted out by some Nice people, thanks for the Compliment, Mate.

Just always remember this?

QUOTE
At the closing ceremony IOC president Jacques Rogge declared the event a "truly exceptional Games" after earlier asserting that the IOC had "absolutely no regrets" in choosing Beijing to host the 2008 games.[6] The choice of China as a host country was the subject of criticism by some politicians and NGOs concerned about China's human rights record.[7][8] China and others, meanwhile, warned against politicizing the Olympics.[9][10]

The Games saw 43 new world records and 132 new Olympic records set.[11] A record 87 countries won a medal during the Games. Chinese athletes won 51 gold medals altogether, the second largest haul by a national team in a modern, non-boycotted Summer Games.[12] Michael Phelps broke the records for most golds in one Olympics and for most career gold medals for an Olympian. Usain Bolt secured the traditional title "World's Fastest Man" by setting new world records in the 100m and 200m dashes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Summer_Olympics



thumbup.gif
woodyblade
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 11:52 PM) *
From my Post on Korea?

QUOTE
The People's Volunteer Army had outrun its supply line and was forced to recoil. The Chinese could not go beyond Seoul because they were at the end of their logistics supply line[citation needed] — all food and ammunition had to be carried at night on foot or bicycle from the Yalu River.


thumbup2.gif


Oh right sorry forgot about that .

Yeah it was a Good debate about the Olympics including the 19 Gold Medals better than Australia's 14 smile.gif and also about China as a whole.

thumbup.gif
Abacus 7
QUOTE(woodyblade @ Aug 26 2008, 09:30 PM) *
QUOTE(Abacus 7 @ Aug 25 2008, 11:52 PM) *
From my Post on Korea?

QUOTE
The People's Volunteer Army had outrun its supply line and was forced to recoil. The Chinese could not go beyond Seoul because they were at the end of their logistics supply line[citation needed] — all food and ammunition had to be carried at night on foot or bicycle from the Yalu River.


thumbup2.gif


Oh right sorry forgot about that .

Yeah it was a Good debate about the Olympics including the 19 Gold Medals better than Australia's 14 smile.gif and also about China as a whole.

thumbup.gif



Just to help GB to get ready for 2012? May I give you a Link to typical Aussie Slang you will no doubt hear? You could pass it on to the Balmy Army that follows Match ups with the Aussies and Kiwis.

It is low profile, but if course words offend, Please don't click on the Link.

http://www.aussieslang.com/slang/australian-slang-a.asp

All the Best, Mate, Aussies will make you eat your words in four years, about the Olympics, sooner for the rest.

in_love.gif
ryan_w_quick
QUOTE(MaraM @ Aug 25 2008, 03:02 PM) *
Eep, I seem to have lost the 'thread' of the thoughts here?

For, was it intended to mean that if you don't win, you "aren't good enough", hence "you're a pig"?

Have often wondered about the seemingly 'odd' system of a citizen from one Country representing another Country during the Olympics myself. It does seem strange and do wonder what the reasoning behind it is.

But that said, I wonder how the above reasoning works because, if a Chinese person playing for America equals the term "pig", surely wouldn't that make all of America "pigs" for allowing it?



well i already said the olympix are tainted and i dont get into the country battles at all. i just like watching the competition. for example- the other day team handball was on. i started watching it. i could not tell you the teams playing. i just dont care. but ill watch because of the sport
ryan_w_quick
Woody,

my only point is that one of the main themes of the olympix is the international competition. in my opinion, this elements is very watered down when athletes can just go play for any country they want
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